Ok now I get it. Thanks.

Ok, I watched that before I posted. You got me.

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That the ricin wasn't actually used on Brock is beside the point.

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OK ... I know this got covered ... especially on 103.

But why would Jesse think Walt poisoned Brock if it wasn't ricin??

OK, he figured out Walt messed around with the ricin cigarettes? What does that have to do with Brock??


I don't think this have been covered. A few people have brought it up and I don't think it has been addressed.

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But why would Jesse think Walt poisoned Brock if it wasn't ricin??

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Because, why else would Walt go through the trouble of having Huell lift the ricin off him, considering that's what Jesse needed to kill Gus? Unless of course he needed it as part of some master plan.

Once Jesse makes the connection that Huell lifted it from him, he understood that it was all part of the plan to turn him against Gus again.

I know it seems confusing, but I promise it makes sense. I recommend reading the wiki on End Times.

Here's a good summary on the ricin cigarette.

http://www.reddit.com/r/breakingbad/comments/1l3exa/spoilers_a_full_backstory_and_timeline_to_the/

The symptoms that Brock was exhibiting were consistent with ricin poisoning.

So Jesse, convinced that he was being manipulated, thought Walt poisoned Brock. He threatens to kill him. Walt says it's ridiculous. "You had Saul do it. Yeah, I went to his office. He called me and just had to see me today. His big man-mountain bodyguard patted me down. That's when he must've stolen it off of me, right? That's the plan? Was that the plan?"



Walt convinces Jesse that it was Gus that poisoned Brock, considering that Gus had used kids in the past. Jesse is on board with killing Gus, arranges for Gus to appear at the hospital when Jesse refuses to go with Tyrus, thereby setting up the car bomb (that ultimately doesn't work when Gus gets spooked).



After Walt gets Gus at the nursing home, Walt sneaks the ricin cig back into Jesse's and specifically the roomba.



Jesse and Walt then spend an episode searching the apartment, only to find it in the roomba. Jesse freaks out. "I don't know what's wrong with me, Mr. White."



So Walt
(1) stole the ricin cig via Saul's guy, and
(2) fed Brock lily of the valley drug
so that Jesse would think that the ricin cig had been used on Brock by Gus.

Jesse, in the most recent episode, cannot find his weed on the side of the road while he waits for Saul's pickup. He remembers the mountain body guard bumping him. He remembers the frisking. He sees the cig pack. It all clicks into place.

[This message has been edited by MW03 (edited 8/26/2013 2:11p).]

"Because, why else would Walt go through the trouble of having Huell lift the ricin off him, considering that's what Jesse needed to kill Gus? Unless of course he needed it as part of some master plan."

That would make sense if he was poisoned by ricin. I read the wiki. That didn't tell me anything.

Revival - I'll have to schedule a vacation day to read yours.

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It all clicks into place.

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What clicks? Walt doesn't think the hospital will figure out what poisoned Brock??

So Walt goes through this elaborate scheme to make Jesse think Gus poisoned Brock with ricin, then poisons him with Lily of the Valley??

I get all the pickpocket stuff. What I don't get is why the Lily of the Valley was used.

Because Walt did not want to kill the kid, but wanted Jesse on his side.

Ricin would've killed him.

Walt just needed Jesse on his side long enough to kill Gus. He knew eventually they'd know it was Lily of the Valley, and it could just be explained away as a kid eating berries. By then Gus would be dead.

OK, I understand Jesse figured out all the pickpocket/switcheroo stuff.

But if Brock wasn't poisoned with ricin, why does Jesse still think Walt did it?

Again, because he knows Huell lifted the ricin, which means Walt wanted it, etc etc.

Because he realized that the fat dude picked him, and that's why he found it only after Walt helped him look for it. And he wasn't 100% sure until Sal confirmed it.

[This message has been edited by Unthought known (edited 8/26/2013 2:21p).]

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What clicks? Walt doesn't think the hospital will figure out what poisoned Brock??

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No, it clicks for Jesse that Walt was behind it. The doctors said it was Lily of the Valley because the kids like to eat the red berries. Walt destroyed his plant afterwards, and Jesse never knew about Walt's plant. So Walt had no reason to be blamed for poisoning Brock with a berry that kids were known to eat.

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So Walt goes through this elaborate scheme to make Jesse think Gus poisoned Brock with ricin, then poisons him with Lily of the Valley??

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Walt needed Brock poisoned, and he needed Jesse to think Gus did it in order to turn Jesse back around to Walt's team. So, yeah. Also, if Brock had actually been poisoned with ricin, and Jesse mentioned ricin to the hospital, then there would have been a serious inquest. Walt needed Brock's poisoning to be explainable.

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I get all the pickpocket stuff. What I don't get is why the Lily of the Valley was used.

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Just because it was easily explainable to the authorities, yet suspicious enough given Jesse's knowledge of the ricin cig to implicate Gus.

Remember, when this is happening, Gus has just driven Walt to the desert and threatened to kill his wife and kids. Walt is in desperation mode.

What Revival posted is fairly thorough, you should take the time to read it if you want to be as crystal clear as possible.

although we're omniscient viewers, it's hard to have a real appreciation for how self-loathing and obsessed Jesse is at this point

That's why I'm starting to lean more towards my prediction that Jesse will kill himself to end it all. To end the guilt, the anger, the depression.

[This message has been edited by sharkenleo (edited 8/26/2013 2:24p).]

But y'all still haven't explained why Jesse would think Walt used LOTV.

Jesse- Dr, check for ricin posioning. (because Walt has some and I think he is behind this or gus is"

Dr - It wasn't ricin. It was LOTV berries.

Jess- Oh, OK.


If he was just told it was caused by a random berry, why would he think, "I know Walt was involved with ricin, and it wasn't ricin, it was LOTV ... but I still think it is Walt."

All I can see he figured out was the he was getting played to kill Gus. I can see no connect to Brock being poisoned by LOTV.

I really thought that Walt was going to try and break Jessie's neck.

Like, Walt could really do that. I imagine it takes power lifter strength to break someone's neck.

Dude, read the link. There are only so many ways we can explain it. It's all in there.

But Jesse DID tell them to check for ricin poisoning.

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But y'all still haven't explained why Jesse would think Walt used LOTV.

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Walt has been playing him or so long that he is questioning everything Walt has told him. He thinks there is a huge possibility Walt is behind it and learns from Saul the truth.

Mark, the writers tell you this is the way it is.

Nothing anyone else says is going to change your mind.

Read the reddit link from earlier it explains it.

Jesse is not mad that Walt used Ricin to poison anyone.

He's mad because he knows Walt has "played" him going back to Brock. This was just after he told Walt to stop playing him and then Walt hugged him. At that point, Jessie was pretty sure that he (Jessie) was wrong about Walt playing him and that he (Walt) really does care about him.

The whole realization that Walt masterminded the stealing of the ricin cigarette, and then likely poisoned Brock with Lily of the Valley to "play him" way back then, SET HIM OFF!

don't get too tied up in the details of the "ricin/lily of the Valley/killing Gus" scenario. Walt manipulated events there to get Jessie to side with him against Gus.

Jessie is mad because he finally realizes that Walt doesn't care about him and has only been using him.



[This message has been edited by 91_Aggie (edited 8/26/2013 2:31p).]

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Like, Walt could really do that. I imagine it takes power lifter strength to break someone's neck.

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Walt's Lex Luthor. He could do it, somehow, someway.

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All I can see he figured out was the he was getting played to kill Gus. I can see no connect to Brock being poisoned by LOTV.

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What incriminates Walt with Jesse is that Jesse now knows Walt planted the cig in his Roomba. Why would Walt go through the trouble of doing that unless he was trying to cover up what he did?

Sorry, I thought the link included all the comments.

I read it.

It still doesn't explain why he would think Walt poisoned Brock with some random berry, except that "He's just a bad guy".

I'll quit asking about it.

You're overthinking it.

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It still doesn't explain why he would think Walt poisoned Brock with some random berry, except that "He's just a bad guy".

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because Walt is a scientist. as a scientist he knows the berry would make Brock really sick, and even show signs of ricin poisoning. it would make the kid really sick..but not kill him. basically do just enough to bring Jesse back over to his side.

Markandles, I mean this with all due respect because I'm seriously not trying to be a jackass, but at this point you're just being hardheaded.

Jesse, at this point, doesn't trust Walt farther than he can throw him, and he realizes that all Walt does and ever has done is play people (Jesse included) to further his (Walt) own agenda.

The whole ricin/poisoning incident was pure confusion to Jesse - he knew that Walt had ricin, he thought the boy was poisoned by the ricin, he later found out about the flower and its similarities to ricin (the exact poison Walt had access to), and he knew the ricin was missing for some time until Walt of all people found it in a place that Jesse had already checked.

He probably always had some questions about the ricin disappearing for awhile and how the kid ate a plant that just happened to have the same effects.

Then he realizes Huell pickpocketed the pot...and it falls into place.

Why wouldn't he assume that Walt had used the ricin to manipulate him?

Jesus Christ people - read a few pages before asking the same g'd questions over and over.

'Christ almighty it's like I'm setting here playing cards with my brother's kids or something, nerve racking sons of bltches!

Maybe he's not wrapping his head around the fact that although Walt had the ricin stolen he didn't use it.

It was all a ploy by Walt to frame Gus for the poisoning without killing the kid.

***I just realized I'm typing the same thing everyone else has. At this point you get it or you don't.

ya, i think we should put a moratorium now on the ricin/pick pocketing/weed questions. its officially been beaten to death almost like Saul was in his office.

Look, I get how you think the poster is being hard headed. But realizing he has been played is on thing. Getting into a car, kicking in a door and dousing a house with gasoline is another. It is not about being played. He thinks Walt poisoned the kid and he would not have koown that. He would not have known the ricin they found in his vacuum cleaner was fake. He would not have known that.

I get the being played part. You laugh your laugh and get in the car and get out of dodge. Jessie went to burn Walt's house down. That is not being played. That is understanding that Walt is a monster. And knowing Walty had them lift the ricin off of him when he knew the kid was poisoned by berries does not equate to Walt doing it. Unless Jessie was in the audience with us when we saw the plant in Walt's back yard then yes.

I just rewatched "End Times" and the latest episode, and I now see the pocket-picking I had previously missed.

However, I'm with Markandles. It just doesn't ring true to me.

First, the original scheme by Walt is WAY over-complicated, so much so that the writers don't even hint in the show itself how Walt managed to get Brock to eat those berries. Now, there are all sorts of unnecessary details that the writers leave out of various episodes, and we certainly don't need to see each detail. But that seems to me to be a pretty significant detail they just gloss over.

Second, even though I understand intellectually the connection that the writers are trying to make and their reasoning for it, it still doesn't translate to me for JESSE to make that connection. There is not a word that Jesse says to Saul when he bursts into his office that shows that Jesse really understands the complicated theory of how Walt threatened Brock. In fact, just the opposite. Jesse's comments, and Saul's too, suggest that both Jesse and Saul think that Walt used the ricin, which certainly makes more sense.

So maybe that's in fact the case in this sense: Walt has his plan to hurt, not kill, Brock with the Lily of the Valley plant, but wants Jesse to believe it's the ricin so he can implicate Gus. That's fine.

What would make sense would be for Jesse to believe that despite what the doctors said, Brock was indeed poisoned by the ricin, which would link the poisoning to Walt. There just is no logical way for Jesse to connect Brock's illness with Walt through the Lily of the Valley.

That said, I can accept that Jesse does not understand all the details of how it was done, but because of the missing ricin cigarette, he knows that Walt did poison Brock.





[This message has been edited by OldArmy71 (edited 8/26/2013 3:02p).]

You guys act this show is on par with shooting a rocket to the moon. It is not. It is some good fiction without question but it is not splitting the atom. This show has holes in it. Hank going bat crap wild is one as well. He knew Walt was a meth dealer. He did not know from that that he awas a murdering psychopath. But that is the conclusuion the writers jumped to. Same with Jesse. He went from "wow I really got played on this one let me get the heck out of here and get on with my life in Alaska" to "I am going to burn the mother ****ers house down in broad daylight".

Walt is not a one man wrecking crew. He is not superman.