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Does anyone remember Gale giving the book to Walt? I don't think they showed this happen.

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I have been watching season 3 and between the time they are introduced to when Gale is fired from the lab, he did not give Walt the book on screen.

And if I remember correctly, the book comes into the house when Walt moves back in from the condo. Not sure where the book itself came from yet.

[This message has been edited by Pro Ag (edited 9/5/2012 11:42a).]

Airliner should not be included.

But with the prison shankings, he's gotta be up to nearly 20.

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Who'd I miss??

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Don Eladio and all of his capos.


[This message has been edited by North Dallas Forty oz. (edited 9/5/2012 11:55a).]

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I do think he was "remorseful" for killing Mike, although driven by the fact he realized it was unnecessary vs. feeling bad about killing itself.

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Yeah, imo it was more of a "oh sh** i really didn't need to do that, i better cover this up properly ASAP" kind of remorse. I don't think he liked Mike at all.

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Don Eladio and all of his capos.

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That was Gus's play and would have happen regardless of Walt's blue meth. Just my opinion.

Personally, I think we should only count deaths that were either carried out directly by Walt, or caused directly by his actions.

Krazy 8 and Emilio - 2
2 street thugs he runs over - 4
Jane (arguable) - 5
dirt bike kid - 6
10 prison guys - 16
Mike - 17

Did I miss anyone? Even if I didn't, it's getting close to 20 deaths caused directly by Walt. Pretty nuts if you think about it.

Edit: I guess I should count Gus and his guy, but I won't count Salamanca. He killed himself while carrying out Walt's plan. So 19 if you count those 2.

Edit 2: Crap, forgot about Gale. Yep, up to 20.

[This message has been edited by sharkenleo (edited 9/5/2012 12:00p).]

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That was Gus's play and would have happen regardless of Walt's blue meth. Just my opinion.

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Not sure about that. Gus's cartel rift was the result of Tuco's death, followed by the cousins going after Hank (instead of Walt) without cartel authorization and ending up dead. All of that is wrapped up in Walt's activities.

Juan Bolsa
The guy that got his head blown off by the Cartel's sniper.

Victor

[This message has been edited by North Dallas Forty oz. (edited 9/5/2012 11:59a).]

Who are the "goons at the carwash?" Do you mean the two guys that Walt killed and burned up in the laundry/meth lab?

Yeah, meant lab and said carwash...

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the all the Mexican Nacros.

leno, you missed the two (?) guys Walt killed to get jesse out of the lab after he killed Gus...aka the two guys guarding Jesse.

Also missed Tuco and crew.

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-Crazy Eight and cousin: 2
-Tuco and his two goons: 5
-White boy slinger: 6
-The kid: 7
-2 Drug dealers: 9
-Meth Head with the safe: 10
-Gus, Hector, and goon: 13
-Goons at the LAB POST GUS: 15
-Chang and goon: 17
-Dirt bike kid: 18
-Mike: 19
-Mike's guys: 29

edit:
-Jane: 30
-The cousins: 32
-Gale (duh): 33

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If we're going to include Don Eladio and his capos, then we should include the airliner, too. Walt's decision to not save Jesse's girlfriend led to her father becoming extremely distracted/unable to focus at work.

Maybe we can get a running count of deaths in both situations:

1.) carried out directly by Walt

2.) caused directly by Walt's actions

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Maybe we can get a running count of deaths in both situations:

1.) carried out directly by Walt

2.) caused INDIRECTLY by Walt's actions

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Slight FIFY to make it more interesting.

Breaking Bad deaths = 247 counting the airline passengers

http://tdylf.com/2012/09/02/infographic-the-death-toll-in-breaking-bad/

and I never thought there might be something like a Breaking Bad Wiki out there - I guess I know what I'll be doing over the coming months.....

http://breakingbad.wikia.com/wiki/Breaking_Bad_Wiki

Tuco was technically killed by Hank. If you don't count Don Eladio, his capos, Juan Bolsa, or the cousins, then I don't see why you'd count Tuco.

Also, Tuco's goons were even more remot. Tuco beat one to death for no reason at all. The fat one then got trapped and killed by a car when trying to stash the body in the junkyard.

Jock, looks good!

DIRECT:
-Crazy Eight and cousin: 2
-Tuco: 3
-White boy slinger: 4
-2 Drug dealers: 6
-Gus, Hector, and goon: 9
-Goons at the LAB POST GUS: 11
-Dirt bike kid: 12
-Mike: 13
-Mike's guys: 23
-Gale: 24

INDIRECT:
-Tuco's two goons: 2
-Meth Head with the safe: 3
-Chang and goon: 5
-Jane: 6
-Jane's dad (he offed himself, right): 7
-The cousins: 9
-Airline: (call it 150) 159
-Shoot out at the Lab: 160
-Nacros: (call it 15) 175
-Dealer kid: 176
-Juan Bolsa: 177

So, until you add the plane and nacros, Walt is directly responsible for more deaths than he's indirectly involved with. Impressive.



[This message has been edited by Ol Jock 99 (edited 9/5/2012 12:48p).]

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Tuco was technically killed by Hank.

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Tuco was gut shot and in a hole. He'd be dead either way.

I don't think Jane's death is 'arguable' at all. He sat there and watched her begin choking, and made sure to watch as she struggled for breath. I would think that would be considered depraved indifference; he is just as guilty of murder in that instance as he is for shooting a guy or running him over with an Aztec.

[This message has been edited by Professor frick (edited 9/5/2012 12:29p).]

Its completely stupid to claim Walt is responsible for drug dealers killing each other or the airline crash. B-tch did drugs and she didnt take the necessary precautions to NOT die when she starts to vomit. How on God's Earth is that Walt's fault? Oh he didnt save her? Since when is that required of him?

All right, I'll back off and concede he is not legally responsible in any way, but for the purposes of the show, I certainly think he made a point to not help her. He wanted her dead, and when confronted with the opportunity to let her live or let her die, he chose to let her die.

That was a major turning point for his character, the first time (the only time) he DIRECTLY made the selfish choice that it would be better if this innocent person was not alive, and when given the opportunity, took it.

If the cousins count in the indirect category, then Juan Bolsa should too, IMO. Gus had Bolsa killed to protect Walt, just like the twins. Of course, that led to Gus killing Eladio and the capos. It's a continuous chain of events originating with Walt's activities. All of those things are more directly caused by Walt than the airliner crash, which itself was mostly an accident.

I agree with Jane being in the direct category, even if Walt isn't legally responsible. The same goes for Combo ("White boy slinger"). All Walt did was push to expand into new areas. He certainly didn't intend or even know that Combo would get killed as a result. In that regard Combo is really even less direct than Jane because Walt knew Jane would die if he didn't get her help.

I was lumping Juan Bolsa in with the nacros, but I'll break him out.

Jane vs Combo (thanks, forgot his name): Combo was placed in the line-of-fire by Walt, thus Walt is directly responsible for his death. Had Walt busted into Jesse's house 5 minutes sooner or later, Jane would still be dead. Thus indirect.

I may be wrong, but she appeared to be choking on her own vomit. While you're right she would have been dead if he came five minutes later, all he had to do was roll her over and she would not be dead. He directly didn't not kill her.

I guess I didn't understand what you meant by narcos. I was thinking that meant narcotics officers because that's the way they use that term in The Wire. I thought you were talking about Tortuga and the DEA guys that got blown up by his head on a turtle.

We still don't know why Walt left Grey Matter, right? That's a big question going into the last 8 episodes.

40OZ, I was meaning all the guys who Gus and Mike blasted in MX, plus Juan Bolsa. Tortuga et al had NOTHING to do with Walt.

I don't think the reason is all that important. What's important is that he regrets his decision to leave and was too proud to accept help from his former partner.

If they do give us a reason, I bet it will be a quick remark and not much else. But I'm sure the reason he left has something to do with his pride.

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We still don't know why Walt left Grey Matter, right? That's a big question going into the last 8 episodes.

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Guessing he wasn't getting enough credit or adulation and used his buyout to start his own lab that flopped and sucked up all his money. They probably sued him for something too.

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I may be wrong, but she appeared to be choking on her own vomit.

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It wasnt his vomit, the problem is you can't really dust for vomit.

I thought he laid the foundation for it while he was a professor, they founded it, then Walt cheated and he lost his job. Grey Matter wasnt making money at that point, so Walt backed out (unable to continue to do research) or he sold his share because he needed money for being jobless and disgraced.

The responses to the water cooler question are outstanding. Kudos to "The Sheik" for the websites.

I guess what we were arguing about is: If Walt had not gone Bad, how many would still be alive? I contend the entire number is correct including the airliner. If he had not made the bad decision, then they would still be alive? Jesse and vomit girl would not have been in that state at that time?

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If Walt had not gone Bad, how many would still be alive?

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Here's the thing though, if he hadn't gone bad, Jane still would've died. She would've still choked on that vomit, the father would've gone into depression, and the plane would've crashed.