The bottom line is that it is such an unforced error that won't help in the decline of Marvel. I haven't seen a Marvel movie in the theater since Spider Man, far from home. And I'm guessing I won't be returning anytime soon.

StandUpforAmerica said:

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The bottom line is that it is such an unforced error that won't help in the decline of Marvel. I haven't seen a Marvel movie in the theater since Spider Man, far from home. And I'm guessing I won't be returning anytime soon.

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This may be the ultimate "name checks out" I've ever seen.

StandUpforAmerica said:

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The bottom line is that it is such an unforced error that won't help in the decline of Marvel. I haven't seen a Marvel movie in the theater since Spider Man, far from home. And I'm guessing I won't be returning anytime soon.

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You post in here quarterly to complain, I'm sure you'll be missed.

Anthony Mackie clarified his comments about Captain America’s meaning:

“I'm a proud American and taking on the shield of a hero like Cap is the honor of a lifetime. I have the utmost respect for those who serve and have served our country”

“Cap has universal characters that… pic.twitter.com/7T11WHVNS4

— Culture Crave 🍿 (@CultureCrave) January 29, 2025

I'm glad he tried to clarify… I think.

But this made me laugh.

Not my Captain America! pic.twitter.com/1XXva3081J

— Jon Del Arroz | Pop Culture & Gaming 🎮 (@jondelarroz) January 29, 2025

If you don't go see movies of actors who vote Democrat, I'm going assue you've either never been to the movies or you're blind.

By all accounts, Downey Jr, Johansson, Ruffalo, Evans, Cheadle, etc are some of the nicest, most well-liked people in Hollywood. Sure, some of them have their quirks/history, but by and large, most stories I've heard about them say they're good people who treat their co-workers well, aren't divas, are good parents, give to charity, etc. Hell, I know someone personally - a no-name in this industry - who emails with Downey Jr semi-regularly and says he could not be more engaging, always writes back in a timely manner, etc.

But accordingly to you, even though a number of these people are kind, respectful, empathetic, generous, etc, simply because you have differing opinions on how the country should be governed, they're "clowns" who must be shunned/aren't worthy of your support?

For the life of me, I will never, ever understand this way of approaching the world.

Especially when you factor in all the conservative financiers/execs, grips, gaffers, craft service, etc people who work on these movies as well, of which there are just as many if not more (most of whom need the work/money far more).

Just admit what this is really about... you love the way virtue signaling on the internet makes you feel, and how easily hating other people allows you to define yourself as a person. Because, otherwise, your argument is ridiculously flawed and makes absolutely no sense.

To all the conservatives who found out today that Tom Morello or Jim Gaffigan don’t share their politics: it’ll be easier to get this done all at once. NOBODY whose work you like shares your politics. You get Kelsey Grammer and that’s it.

— Ken Jennings (@KenJennings) June 10, 2020

TCTTS said:

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By all accounts, Downey Jr, Johansson, Ruffalo, Evans, Cheadle, etc are some of the nicest, most well-liked people in Hollywood. Sure, some of them have their quirks/history, but by and large, most stories I've heard about them say they're good people who treat their co-workers well, aren't divas, are good parents, give to charity, etc. Hell, I know someone personally - a no-name in this industry - who emails with Downey Jr semi-regularly and says he could not be more engaging, always writes back in a timely manner, etc.

But accordingly to you, even though a number of these people are kind, respectful, empathetic, generous, etc, simply because you have differing opinions on how the country should be governed, they're "clowns" who must be shunned/aren't worthy of your support?

For the life of me, I will never, ever understand this way of approaching the world.

Especially when you factor in all the conservative financiers/execs, grips, gaffers, craft service, etc people who work on these movies as well, of which there are just as many if not more (most of whom need the work/money far more).

Just admit what this is really about... you love the way virtue signaling on the internet makes you feel, and how easily hating other people allows you to define yourself as a person. Because, otherwise, your argument is ridiculously flawed and makes absolutely no sense.

---

The non-stop Trump bashing over the last 8+ years by Hollywood is what has made me stop supporting most of their movies. I'm sure I watch plenty of shows that star left leaning actors, but I'm not going to support the ones who lost their minds about Trump and his supporters. The same goes for music. I'm guessing that industry leans as left as Hollywood. I love going to concerts, but I'll pick and choose where I spend my entertainment dollars.

And back to the main point, you'd think the studios would coach these actors better.

Way to completely ignore everything I said/asked in my post, while simply rewording everything yours. Good to know the level of critical thinking we're dealing with here, and that the whole virtue signaling thing is spot on, at least.

TCTTS said:

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Way to completely ignore everything I said/asked in my post, while simply rewording everything yours. Good to know the level of critical thinking we're dealing with here, and that the whole virtue signaling thing was spot on, at least.

---

Thank you for acknowledging that my assessment of Trump hating Hollywood was spot on. No virtue signaling, just explaining how I choose to spend my entertainment dollars.

Back to non-political comic book nerd stuff

I rewatched Werewolf by Night over the weekend and it bothers me we may not see those characters again. That was some of the best content Marvel has put out post-Endgame.

Give me a Moon Knight and Werewolf by Night show/movie/anything

There's been talk of a Midnight Sons movie for years now that would apparently see Blade, Werewolf by Night, Moon Knight, Black Knight (Kit Harrington in Eternals), a new Ghost Rider and others team up. No idea how real or far along it is, but rumors from credible-enough sources have persisted for a while now.

Wait, so now here's a (voice) star of a Marvel project clearly being anti-woke.

Does this cancel out Mackie's comment?

Or do we still boycott Marvel, even though doing so would now hurt a non-woke Marvel lead?

Should the studios still coach these actors better? Does that still stand?

What's the protocol here?

I just need to know how these dumbass rules work to make sure I'm virtue signaling properly.

"Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man" voice star Husdon Thames had some concerns before joining the Disney+ series.

"My biggest fear was that it was gonna be annoying and woke, and it wasn’t."https://t.co/CRUYqV7VzI

— Variety (@Variety) January 29, 2025

Sounds like the voice actor is happy the show was good and not full of partisan preaching. You're mad it wasn't woke?

I'm pointing out how incredibly stupid it is to boycott a franchise/company based on the political views of *some* stars, when many *other* leads, executives, crew members, etc in the franchise/company clearly don't share their views/opinions.

And re: those who said Marvel should train their actors better in the press, I'm pointing out their hypocrisy, considering they probably won't feel the same way about this particular comment.

You really read my obvious sarcasm above and came to the conclusion that I'm mad a Spider-Man cartoon isn't woke?

Seriously?

I think actors, musicians, athletes, etc should just keep their mouth shut on political issues, no matter which way they lean. Why make a comment and piss off half the country? Like Michael Jordan said, "Republicans buy sneakers too."

Be like Mike.

I bet if you look hard enough you can find people claiming to boycott over those comments, too.

TXAG 05 said:

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I think actors, musicians, athletes, etc should just keep their mouth shut on political issues, no matter which way they lean. Why make a comment and piss off half the country? Like Michael Jordan said, "Republicans buy sneakers too."

Be like Mike.

---

Honestly, I think it's more complicated than that.

Because every good movie we've ever seen is about something more than the plot. Meaning, any movie worth its salt, from award-winning dramas to every last Marvel movie, is exploring a theme. Even something like the Fast & Furious movies, at their core, are about "family"/contend that family is more important than anything. That's the thematic argument - or thesis - the movie is making, and the characters promoting/getting in the way of that particular argument are what make for the emotional core of the movie, which is what's really keeping us engaged between all the various action set pieces, whether we know it or not.

Some themes are obviously more basic than others, while some are more philosophical, and others of course are more political. Regardless, the entire point of any effective movie is to show a character (or characters) go through some kind of change/catharsis, and the only way to do that is to draw a thematic line in the sand that they have to cross. Again, even the "dumbest" movies do this. Even in Knocked Up, Seth Rogen's character must go from an aimless, irresponsible moron to a responsible adult. After all the dick jokes, the movie's thematic argument is one that's centered around/is essentially "preaching" responsibility.

This is all a long way of saying that movies are, ultimately/inherently, exercises in what amount to moral arguments. Some you're going to agree with (of course "family" and "responsibility" are good!), some you might not ("people are inherently perverts" or "there is no such thing as objective morality" - themes that someone like David Fincher has argued in his movies). Either way, this is why I've never fully understood A) the "leave the messaging out of it" complaints, or B) "the art can have a message but the people who made the art should just shut up" opinions. Especially when what it often really comes down to is A) "leave the messaging that I disagree with out of it," or B) "okay, the artists can talk but only if they say something I agree with."

Movies, by their very nature, are moral statements. Which often lead to them being political statements as well. So it's not really that weird or offensive to me when actors, in their promotion of movies, end up sharing moral/political arguments as well, especially when the movie they're promoting is dealing with politics (as Brave New World clearly does).

Granted, in a vacuum, what Mackie said was ill-advised and stupid.

But I don't think he should just shut up either.

That, and I understand where he was probably coming from, seeing as the Evans iteration of the character, in basically his final arc, was literally a fugitive on the run, one who was AGAINST the United States government. Now, obviously, as someone pointed out earlier, our government and "America" aren't necessarily one and the same. But I think Mackie was most likely A) implying that he was simply taking the thematic baton that the Evans iteration handed him, and B) trying to say that the character's values - honor, dignity, integrity (all three of which Mackie names) - are universal in nature, and not just bound to "America."

It just came out wrong.

Or… maybe he is just another uppity, ungrateful black guy who people on the internet now get to rage about and use to virtue signal while making themselves feel big and patriotic in the process.

TCTTS said:

---

TXAG 05 said:

---

I think actors, musicians, athletes, etc should just keep their mouth shut on political issues, no matter which way they lean. Why make a comment and piss off half the country? Like Michael Jordan said, "Republicans buy sneakers too."

Be like Mike.

---

Honestly, I think it's more complicated than that.

Because every good movie we've ever seen is *about* something more than the plot. Meaning, any movie worth its salt, from award-winning dramas to every last Marvel movie, is exploring a theme. Even something like the Fast & Furious movies, at their core, are about "family"/contend that family is more important than anything. That's the thematic argument - or thesis - the movie is making, and the characters promoting/getting in the way of that particular argument are what make for the emotional core of the movie, which is what's really keeping us engaged between all the various action set pieces, whether we know it or not.

Some themes are obviously more basic than others, while some are more philosophical, and others of course are more political. Regardless, the entire point of any effective movie is to show a character (or characters) go through some kind of change/catharsis, and the only way to do that is to draw a thematic line in the sand that they have to cross. Again, even the "dumbest" movies do this. Even in Knocked Up, Seth Rogen's character must go from an aimless, irresponsible moron to a responsible adult. After all the dick jokes, the movie's thematic argument is one that's centered around/is essentially "preaching" responsibility.

This is all a long way of saying that movies are, ultimately/inherently, exercises in what amount to moral arguments. Some you're going to agree with (of course "family" and "responsibility" are good!), some you might not ("people are inherently perverts" or "there is no such thing as objective morality" - themes that someone like David Fincher has argued in his movies). Either way, this is why I've never fully understood A) the "leave the messaging out of it" complaints, or B) "the art can have a message but the people who made the art should just shut up" opinions. Especially when what it often really comes down to is A) "leave the messaging that I disagree with out of it," or B) "okay, the artists can talk but only if they say something I agree with."

Movies, by their very nature, are moral statements. Which often lead to them being political statements as well. So it's not really that weird or offensive to me when actors, in their promotion of movies, end up sharing moral/political arguments as well, especially when the movie their promoting is dealing with politics (as Brave New World clearly does).

Granted, in a vacuum, what Mackie said was stupid and ill-advised.

But I don't think he should just shut up either.

That, and I understand where he was probably coming from, seeing as the Evans iteration of the character, in basically his final arc, was literally a fugitive on the run, one who was AGAINST the United States government. Now, obviously, as someone pointed out earlier, our government and "America" aren't necessarily one and the same. But I think Mackie was most likely A) implying that he was simply taking the thematic baton that the Evans iteration handed him, and B) trying to say that the character's values - honor, dignity, integrity (all three of which Mackie names) - are universal in nature, and not just bound to "America."

It just came out wrong.

Or… maybe he is just another uppity, ungrateful black guy who people on the internet now get to rage about and use to virtue signal while making themselves feel big and patriotic in the process.

---

I agree with all that, definitely promote your movie and it's message.

I was referring more to things like Ruffalo, since he was mentioned above, going full Covid true believer and condemning people who didn't wear masks or get the shot, or whatever the current thing Jimmy Kimmel is crying about. People want to be entertained, not lectured by people with little education who don't live in the real world, no matter what their beliefs may be.

I just wish they'd all shut up about politics/woke crap and just keep it to their projects/works and that's it…it's amazing how things go away when they aren't discussed….

I remember when a classic white character was replaced with a black one…little movie called Dr Dolittle with Eddie Murphy and guess what? NO ONE CARED!

I remember another classic white character who was replaced with a black one…little movie called The Nutty Professor with…amazingly enough Eddie Murphy and guess what? NO ONE CARED!

Stop listening to focus groups stop trying to preach to the general public about crap you don't know about just make the best dang films/shows you can that you want and let the public decide! Hell I think cap American 4 is gonna suck and part of that is because they aren't making the film they want anymore part of the reason for the reshoots was test screenings…..who cares! Just make the film you want and if it sucks then it sucks and if it's great then it's great!

Personally, I don't give a rat's ass about the political opinions of actors. I don't give a rat's ass if they even express their opinions publicly. I just ignore it. Just like I don't care about the political opinions of restaurant owners or any other goods and services. The only people who's political opinions I care about are actual politicians. Also, if anyone's views are swayed by the preaching of actors, athletes or musicians, then they are weak minded sheep.

TXAG 05 said:

---

TCTTS said:

---

TXAG 05 said:

---

I think actors, musicians, athletes, etc should just keep their mouth shut on political issues, no matter which way they lean. Why make a comment and piss off half the country? Like Michael Jordan said, "Republicans buy sneakers too."

Be like Mike.

---

Honestly, I think it's more complicated than that.

Because every good movie we've ever seen is *about* something more than the plot. Meaning, any movie worth its salt, from award-winning dramas to every last Marvel movie, is exploring a theme. Even something like the Fast & Furious movies, at their core, are about "family"/contend that family is more important than anything. That's the thematic argument - or thesis - the movie is making, and the characters promoting/getting in the way of that particular argument are what make for the emotional core of the movie, which is what's really keeping us engaged between all the various action set pieces, whether we know it or not.

Some themes are obviously more basic than others, while some are more philosophical, and others of course are more political. Regardless, the entire point of any effective movie is to show a character (or characters) go through some kind of change/catharsis, and the only way to do that is to draw a thematic line in the sand that they have to cross. Again, even the "dumbest" movies do this. Even in Knocked Up, Seth Rogen's character must go from an aimless, irresponsible moron to a responsible adult. After all the dick jokes, the movie's thematic argument is one that's centered around/is essentially "preaching" responsibility.

This is all a long way of saying that movies are, ultimately/inherently, exercises in what amount to moral arguments. Some you're going to agree with (of course "family" and "responsibility" are good!), some you might not ("people are inherently perverts" or "there is no such thing as objective morality" - themes that someone like David Fincher has argued in his movies). Either way, this is why I've never fully understood A) the "leave the messaging out of it" complaints, or B) "the art can have a message but the people who made the art should just shut up" opinions. Especially when what it often really comes down to is A) "leave the messaging that I disagree with out of it," or B) "okay, the artists can talk but only if they say something I agree with."

Movies, by their very nature, are moral statements. Which often lead to them being political statements as well. So it's not really that weird or offensive to me when actors, in their promotion of movies, end up sharing moral/political arguments as well, especially when the movie their promoting is dealing with politics (as Brave New World clearly does).

Granted, in a vacuum, what Mackie said was stupid and ill-advised.

But I don't think he should just shut up either.

That, and I understand where he was probably coming from, seeing as the Evans iteration of the character, in basically his final arc, was literally a fugitive on the run, one who was AGAINST the United States government. Now, obviously, as someone pointed out earlier, our government and "America" aren't necessarily one and the same. But I think Mackie was most likely A) implying that he was simply taking the thematic baton that the Evans iteration handed him, and B) trying to say that the character's values - honor, dignity, integrity (all three of which Mackie names) - are universal in nature, and not just bound to "America."

It just came out wrong.

Or… maybe he is just another uppity, ungrateful black guy who people on the internet now get to rage about and use to virtue signal while making themselves feel big and patriotic in the process.

---

I agree with all that, definitely promote your movie and it's message.

I was referring more to things like Ruffalo, since he was mentioned above, going full Covid true believer and condemning people who didn't wear masks or get the shot, or whatever the current thing Jimmy Kimmel is crying about. People want to be entertained, not lectured by people with little education who don't live in the real world, no matter what their beliefs may be.

---

Not to sound dismissive, because I understand your point. But here's a simple solution I've adopted....I don't look to entertainers for political guidance, therefore I don't really pay attention to what they say outside of the movie or TV show I'm watching. If I do feel like reading an interview with an entertainer I do so knowing full well they may not hold the same political or theological beliefs I do. And that's OK. Their beliefs only affects me as much as I allow them to affect me, which is absolutely zero.

If Ruffalo wants to continue ranting about COVID in Kimmel interviews, oh well. Trust me, no corporation is listening to him for hiring and firing advice.

I generally only pay attention to the personal political beliefs of entertainers when it clearly factors into the actual product they're making to the point it can't be ignored. For example, I made a comment about politics on the Academy Awards thread only because as TCTTS noted, within the industry itself its obvious to everyone the Academy voters are factoring political beliefs into the actual nominations to an extent even the industry is saying "WTF?".

Or The Acolyte. The creator and actors obviously had no intention of making a Stars Wars show. Instead, their intent was to make a show about gender statements, and unfortunately for us they decided to place that story in the Star Wars universe.
That deserves discussion about the politics of the people involved.