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rhutton125
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AG
I find some of the Collider folks to be barely above fanboys at times. I guess it just depends, if you hear someone salivating at the smallest bit of concept art or insisting like crazy that a movie like, say, Man of Steel is cinematic greatness, then you're unlikely to get an unbiased opinion when the next DC film rolls around. Not that everything has to be fair and balanced, just know what you're getting into.

I didn't really have anyone in mind for that example, but I do have a friend who kind of fits the bill. If you say the word Batman he'll just get giddy, so... yeah. Your BvS review may be a little skewed. Which is fine.

Edit: the Collider guys can also at least explain themselves better than some
Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
Are you suggesting you can't love Man of Steel without being unbiased?

I love that movie and I've never been a comic fanboy.
TajMaballer
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AG
Since we brought up Collider, here is their "Non-Spoiler" review (I would consider there being some spoilers, so maybe watch after you see the movie). It's about 30 minutes, so it is a little on the long side. When they give their ratings at the end, it kinda embodies the conversation we were all having concerning reviews. Some people will focus on some aspects of the movie, some will focus on others. If something doesn't work for you, then it doesn't work.

rhutton125
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quote:
Are you suggesting you can't love Man of Steel without being unbiased?

I love that movie and I've never been a comic fanboy.


Not at all - but if it comes up that often or someone's still waging a one-man war about it (again, no one in particular), then maybe he's a bit of a homer. There are other examples that could be used, certainly. Just gotta know what you're getting into, as best as possible.

I think about this a lot because I think I get TOO wrapped up in cinematic quality and so on. I have a friend from Africa that loves almost all the superhero movies and big budget summer blockbusters. I could rant all day about characterization or whatever, but if someone says "you gotta admit though, the special effects were pretty tight" - sometimes I just have to say "yeah, good point" and admire the purity of it. Sometimes you just want thrills, who am I to get in the way of it.

I mean, Face/Off is one of my 10 favorite movies, and screw anyone that tries to convince me it's not amazing.
Bruce Almighty
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Watching a 30 minute video review before watching the movie seems odd.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Yeah. I left that one for after the movie. Don't want that level of detail yet.
fig96
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Um, Face/Off is amazing.
MooreTrucker
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quote:
If you say the word Batman he'll just get giddy,
That'd be me.

I really didn't much like the 90's Batman's, though. The first one was OK, but the others were pretty awful.
TajMaballer
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I would usually agree, but I broke my general rule about this movie due to the reviews. I really thought this was going to be DC's first critical hit and when it wasn't I had to see what people were saying about it.

It definitely is strange though. I can't argue with you on that.
TajMaballer
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Not as bad as the critics were saying, but not as good as I wanted it to be. Love the characters, but some of the scenes felt out of order. Music was hit or miss. I still had fun in the theater, which has been rare of late. I would give it a 6/10.
Brian Earl Spilner
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That was fun.
Brian Earl Spilner
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ending spoiler: Knew they couldn't kill him after one movie
GiveEmHellBill
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Screw the critics...that was pretty damn enjoyable.

Not a perfect film by any means, but many of the criticisms I read were (to me) off the mark.

Of the non-Nolan DC films, this was easily my favorite and pretty encouraging.
TCTTS
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I'm honestly shocked as to how anyone could truly find enjoyment in this movie, save for Will Smith doing his damnedest to bring even an ounce of charisma and humility to this otherwise train wreck of a film.

Walking out of Batman v Superman, I definitely thought it was bad, but not nearly as bad as the critical reception. Suicide Squad, on the other hand? Good Lord, that was somehow even worse than I was expecting. I don't even know what the hell it is that I just watched. Really, how does THAT happen? How was any draft of that script ever approved to film?

Going in, based on the trailers, I thought for sure Harley Quinn would be the best thing about the movie. But man, that character and her "jokes" were so flat and so terrible and just downright annoying. With a packed audience, opening night, you could hear a pin drop after every one of her one-liners. I legitimately felt embarrassed for Margot Robbie. That said, she was nothing compared to the utter trash that was the Joker, as brief and pointless as he was. Jared Leto legitimately pissed me off with that uninspired hack job of a performance. That, mixed with the insufferable amount of stories about all the mind games and shenanigans Leto played with the cast - based on THAT performance - is the very definition of a wanna-be poser d**che. The thought of having to watch either of those two characters in another DC movie makes me want to give up on this franchise right now, altogether.

In fact, I really do think I'm done. After what I saw tonight, I've lost interest even in Wonder Woman, which I thought had a pretty great trailer. This felt like all the worst aspects of the X-Men and Mummy franchises rolled into one, with a ****ing sky portal to boot. Seriously, how in the hell, in the summer of 2016, are there STILL evil ****ing third act sky portals with light beams shooting down over cities????? This became a trope like FIVE years ago. And yet, this summer alone they've factored into the climaxes of the TMNT sequel, Ghostbusters, and now this POS, never mind Fantastic Four last year and countless blockbusters before that. This one, in particular, was so lame and so derivative that it somehow made me want to wash my hands of everything going forward. I just don't want to visit this world ever again, one with lame ass spells and magic on that kind of scale, where characters like The Flash literally appear out of thin air two movies in a row, for only a few inexplicable seconds, for absolutely no reason at all.

Anyway, I could go on and on about this movie's problems, and I'm sure I'll get plenty of "chill out, it's just a movie" comments, but whatever. This summer has been the culmination of a very real epidemic among Hollywood blockbusters, and for me, this was the tip top peak of sh*t mountain. I'm never going to stop railing against this kind of lazy, incoherent filmmaking.

Really, the biggest reaction out of the audience tonight - by a wide margin - was the reaction to the trailer for Dunkirk. That alone, site unseen, already puts summer 2017 above this one, which is now officially the worst summer for movies in my adult life. The fall movie season (and football) can't get here soon enough.

Later DC, it was nice knowing you.
double aught
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AG
Wow.
AR_Ag95
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Well said!

Now get back to the Focus thread!
jabberwalkie09
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Yep, sounds like I made a good choice on skipping this one.
toucan82
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Wow

I was going to catch this one this weekend but am now considering just watching Star Trek again
AliasMan02
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AG
Probably dragged to the mall tomorrow and was thinking about seeing this despite everything. Maybe not.
TCTTS
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Hmmm...

http://www.thewrap.com/warner-bros-puts-man-of-steel-sequel-into-active-development-exclusive/
AliasMan02
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I feel like designing a Superman sequel would be a good EB exercise.
GiveEmHellBill
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quote:
Hmmm...

http://www.thewrap.com/warner-bros-puts-man-of-steel-sequel-into-active-development-exclusive/
Funny, I was expecting to see announcements from WB about certain executives being "reassigned" after this weekend......
TCTTS
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Very interesting...

quote:
Here's what I know about the thinking at DC Films these days: Superman is a priority. The character has been wounded in recent years by Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, and the folks behind the scenes want to rehabilitate the Man of Tomorrow. They want to fix him, make him less mopey and less unsure of his place in the world. They view his upcoming resurrection in Justice League as sort of a soft reboot, an opportunity to right the wrongs that have been done to the Last Son of Krypton.
quote:
I am allowing myself to feel hope about the DC movieverse, post-Suicide Squad. I hated the film much less than others, but I think everyone can agree that WB stepping in to do stuff like remove mentions of Slipknot being a serial rapist is, at the very least, a move in the right direction. Now with Geoff Johns - a guy who I think gets Superman - in charge maybe something good can finally come of the latest big screen incarnation of the Man of Steel.

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/08/08/wb-is-moving-forward-with-a-man-of-steel-sequel

In my rant the other day I forgot that Geoff Johns' reign basically begins with Wonder Woman, and that that will be somewhat of a fresh start of sots. I don't think this ship can ever be righted (especially with Snyder still involved with at least Justice League, though I'd bet he's gone after that), but he might be able to at least keep it from sinking.
SeattleAgJr
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The problem with Superman is that he is basically a god. He can travel around the world in a matter of minutes (or seconds depending on source), is superstrong, and has only two vulnerabilities - kryptonite and his family/friends.

Most of the Marvel characters (movies only) are not so overpowered. Iron Man can only do so much in his suit, and cannot travel the world that fast.
The Hulk is superstrong, but has issues and also cannot travel the world that fast.
Black Widow/Hawkeye/Cap America - just humans (with some skills and some strength.
Thor is the closest analogue, but you can argue a lot of his powers are tied to the hammer.

And Wonder Woman has many of the same issues as superman. Practically unstoppable.

It is hard to really root for these characters since they are so perfect and basically invulnerable.
AliasMan02
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Which is why they should just change their powers. Dial them way back and set some rules as to what they can or can't do. Their universe would be way better for it.

Same goes for Bats, by the way. Like, will he kill people or not? Use guns or not?

Seriously, think about the following in the context of Justice League and whether these things would fit in the movie or not:

- Batman is fighting Joker and grabs an AR from a fallen goon and sprays away at the clown
- When gearing up with some of Waller's Argus troops against serious odds, someone offers Batman a handgun and he shakes his head, waving it away
- The League decides to kill Lex after he restarts a World Engine and Superman stops them, instead turning him over to the UN for trial
- Lex kills Lois, and Superman burns his head off with heat vision
- Superman uses ice breath to stop a tsunami
- Superman turns the moon out on its axis to prevent Lex's lunar-based cannon from firing on Metropolis
- Superman is chained to a piece of Kryptonite and thrown in the pool, and is unable to free himself
- Same as above, but he IS able to free himself by trying really hard
- Wonder Woman, nearing defeat, calls on Ares to help her and he actually shows up (this is unfair since we haven't seen her whole story, but just sayin)

I don't know the answers to any of these, but I feel like I should by now, especially for Superman.
VanZandt92
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quote:
The problem with Superman is that he is basically a god. He can travel around the world in a matter of minutes (or seconds depending on source), is superstrong, and has only two vulnerabilities - kryptonite and his family/friends.

Most of the Marvel characters (movies only) are not so overpowered. Iron Man can only do so much in his suit, and cannot travel the world that fast.
The Hulk is superstrong, but has issues and also cannot travel the world that fast.
Black Widow/Hawkeye/Cap America - just humans (with some skills and some strength.
Thor is the closest analogue, but you can argue a lot of his powers are tied to the hammer.

And Wonder Woman has many of the same issues as superman. Practically unstoppable.

It is hard to really root for these characters since they are so perfect and basically invulnerable.
I completely concur with this assessment.
MooreTrucker
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quote:

It is hard to really root for these characters since they are so perfect and basically invulnerable.

And yet, they've been around and popular for decades. Is is just that this won't translate to movies or what? What's different?
israeliag
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I don't think you need to tone down Superman. You just have to make him face his limitations - especially because he is so powerful.

Superman 2 (instead of BvS) should have been about how Superman is all powerful, but not omnipresent. How could the most moral and powerful being live with himself knowing he still lets people around the world die? That war still continues despite his efforts?

That would have brought emotion to Cavil, and could have set up a great nemesis in a villain that feeds off of this (Lex Luthor in a proper scheming role). It also would have brought purpose to Lois.
AliasMan02
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quote:
I don't think you need to tone down Superman. You just have to make him face his limitations - especially because he is so powerful.


Agreed, up to the point that the JL exists. Tough to have the JL as WB wants it when threats are either a challenge to Batman but no big deal to Supes, or workable by the JL and so really below Superman's attention. Powering him down brings him into the same field as the others, so they can enjoy the same levels of threat.

Or, your threat has to always be a villain team-up to mirror the different power levels, which usually plays pretty lame.
TCTTS
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Very well put. I totally get all the invulnerable complaints, but there are so many more ways to "hurt" Superman than just physically. There's the non-omnipresent angle, and then there's also going after his loved ones / anyone he cares about (which could be all of humanity, basically, if/when they finally get to that part of his character).
israeliag
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Maybe one of the things BvS did well is show that Batman can go toe-to-toe with Superman. He's basically Iron Man (or more accurately - Iron Man is a different take on Batman).

Besides - Batman gives the JL something unique: deductive detective skills, monetary backing, and the capability to think rationally/pragmatically.
israeliag
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Right - and the great part of Lois, is that she's the only one he can go to about his failings. So when a villain goes after her it's especially powerful. You could take it like in the Dark Knight too, where the hero has to choose between the greater good (Harvey Dent) and his love (Katie Holmes Maggie Gyllenhall [seriously, who thought that Maggie Gyllenhall was an acceptable love interest for Bruce Wayne???]). Or since you are dealing with DC villains: manipulate Lois. Any number of Batman villains can do this (further giving Batman credence in JL) or Lex could.
israeliag
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Not that anyone's asking, but here's my take on the dynamics necessary for the JL (as someone who appreciates comic books, but has never really gotten into them and has seen some of the DC animated movies):

Superman: God without the ability to save everyone. Emotional mess inside. Basically tired all the ****ing time. Sorry, but he's gotta be mopey.
Wonder Woman: The leader of the group - the only one who knows how teams should work.
Batman: Just wants to fix one thing at a time. Hates corruption, mistrusts organizations, and constantly planning for the inevitability that the JL is compromised.
Green Lantern: Basically doesn't give a **** about Earth except if there's global level threats.
Flash: Honestly, don't know how to bring him in. The young guy in the group? Maybe that's Shazam though I honestly would stay the F away from Shazam (kid(s) that turn into a superhero is too weird for me to conceptualize as a story people care about beyond a Kings of Summer/Sandlot type movie with a twist)
Cyborg: science connection - I'd make his dad a more important character. Maybe kinda like "Bryan Cranston Gozilla story": but where he doesn't die so freaking early
Aquaman: Captain Planet.
fig96
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quote:

quote:

It is hard to really root for these characters since they are so perfect and basically invulnerable.

And yet, they've been around and popular for decades. Is is just that this won't translate to movies or what? What's different?
I don't think anything in particular is different. DC's film writers seem to think they're better than the decades of fantastic source material to pull from, or the studio feels it can do better and not call in the true experts (Timm, Dini, Jim Lee, Scott Snyder, etc.).

I'd wager that Superman and Wonder Woman aren't as popular in the comics as some might think. They're certainly well known characters, but other titles have sold much better over the years.
Bruce Almighty
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It doesn't matter how popular the comics are, they make a small portion of the movie going public. DC seems to be trying to make movies for fanboys while Marvel makes movies for families.
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