Idk if you've been paying attention to DIS stock but it took a 7% tumble when they announced their quarterly earnings a few weeks back. They claimed it was toxic film assets from the Fox deal but many suspect it's the drop in popularity of other assets in the Disney "family".

https://www.dailywire.com/news/50546/disneylands-star-wars-galaxys-edge-underperforms-paul-bois

After spending $4B on acquiring star wars, the company that can do no wrong with marvel is struggling to keep the brand of SW strong.

Imho, it's because for the infinity saga they gave the nerds what they want. For the SWDisney films, the only redeeming moment is Vader cracking open the door and skullfking the rebels. The force awakens has given us a 3rd "planet destroying" device. The last jedi gave us a race of attrition in space. And solo just wasnt memorable.

Disney plans to crank out a star wars film every Christmas for the next 50 years, but its storytelling is so bland those 50 films have a good chance of being as memorable as Mary Kate and Ashley's detective series on VHS. They need a major course adjustment with the franchise (kick out JJ Abrams for starters).

TLJ has seriously still put me undecided as to whether I will even see episode 9 in the theater. I don't even pay attention to the news or thread for it. The fact that these statements are written by me is blowing my mind, but TLJ was that much of a turn off for me.

Solo was decent enough and rogue one was solid but all of the characters died off so we don't get any follow up on their best set of characters so far.

They just need a complete revamp and brand new people working on it after 9.

My 7 and 10 year old consider episode 7 and 8 the worst of any of movies, so take that for what it is wortg. They like rogue one and solo over episode 1 and 2 as well. They do like both the cartoons, clone wars and rebels. I will resevere true judgement after episode 9 and how the Mandalorian is.

I've enjoyed 7 & Rogue One. Rogue One may be my favorite.

I didn't care for Solo, it wasn't bad, but not memorable. Star Wars 8 was the worst Star Wars in my opinion.

Fair or not, for better or for worse, Benioff & Weiss may very well be the tone-setters going forward. I know everyone's gut reaction is to suddenly dismiss them for the final two seasons of GoT, but for six seasons they were gods and could basically do no wrong. They made a single, bonehead decision with far-reaching implications that crippled the final two seasons (arbitrarily shortening the episode count), but beyond that, they're great writers. Personally, I think they're going to deliver, and I can't wait to see what they're cooking up.

That said, this isn't about what 30 or 40-year-olds think, it's about the core audience, and over the past year or so even I've finally started to question the longterm durability of the franchise in terms of interest from the younger generation. But I can't tell if enthusiasm has lulled because TLJ killed all the momentum - or - if the franchise concept itself isn't built for the long haul. I will say, the MCU comparison - and the fact that kids could not be more in-tune with that world and those characters - got me thinking...

What if Jedis are just too damn boring for this day and age?

In the same way that Superman has started to feel more and more like a relic, are Jedis simply too stoic and Boyscout-ish? Or does the existence and popularity of Captain America dispel that idea?

What is it about the Guardians of the Galaxy that works so well and what is it about Star Wars that plays more stiff lately? Should Star Wars aim to be more of an action-comedy? Or should they try to age-up a bit and go even more serious?

I don't know the answers, but it's going to be interesting to watch it all play out. I think B&W will come out swinging, and actually deliver something great, but then Rain Johnson could follow that with another dour and preachy entry, so who knows, and kill the momentum all over again (though I doubt Disney lets him).

Or will the movies even matter as much going forward? Does Disney+ become the dominant Star Wars medium, and we learn that Star Wars going forward works so much better in an episodic/limited series format? In that sense, I do think we're judging the future based solely on the past, when Disney+ (along with Netflix and the like) could and very well will radically change all of this going forward...

The Debt, I respect you a lot as a poster, but this is all kinds of wrong.

The Force Awakens made more money than any movie in domestic box office history, even might Endgame fell $80 million short. How is that not repping the brand? If the Last Jedi was so freaking terrible, shouldn't it have made $350 million instead of $620 million?

Disney is blowing it by stacking its movies one after the other and making remakes (Dumbo) that nobody wants. People have got BO fatigue when you cram Dumbo, Endgame, TS4, Aladdin and the Lion King all into a 4-month window. I have no idea what their deal is for this strategy, but that's what's messing them up.

Yo... why you gotta diss The Adventures of Mary Kate and Ashley? They solved every crime by dinnertime.

I tried to point it out to folks at the time, but 7 was unequivocally depressing proof that Disney had zero original ideas for the franchise other than recycling old crap in a safe way to make their ridiculous monetary investment back. It took 8 coming out before most people finally began to accept it. Solo was the last straw - a decent movie but one with no heart and zero innovation. At that point even Disney realized they were destroying a franchise that even Lucas and the second prequel couldn't kill, and vowed changes.
As far at the GOT writers taking over, their magic was in Martin's already written material, once they ventured outside of that, quality plummeted. So its put up or shut up time for them too.

I will stick it out through 9, since it's kind of been a goal since the late 70's when I learned there were 9, but after that they have to truly earn my money to get me into a theater again. Of the 2 people I saw the prequels with as well as 7 (also my age and saw the original trilogy in theaters), one already bailed after 7, the other is now on the fence for 9. Sad to see. And without a burgeoning younger audience commitment (which isn't happening), and without China coming on board (box office there has been terrible), the franchise doesn't have a bright future.
Part of me wants to see Disney take it up the backside for what the they did, so it's kind of a win win.

TCTTS said:

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What if Jedis are just too damn boring for this day and age?

In the same way that Superman has started to feel more and more like a relic, are Jedis simply too stoic and Boyscout-ish? Or does the existence and popularity of Captain America dispel that idea?

What is it about the Guardians of the Galaxy that works so well and what is it about Star Wars that plays more stiff lately? Should Star Wars aim to be more of an action-comedy? Or should they try to age-up a bit and go even more serious?

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Jedi are not boring, they just need a story. There are so many creative things they could have done had they gotten truly creative people into a room and developed an overall storyline for 7,8,9.

The reason the Infinity Saga worked is because they went into it with a master plan of where they wanted to go and how they would work the stories together. It allowed directors and writers some freedom to put their own spin on things but the stories themselves all pointed in the same direction.

For whatever reason, Kathleen Kennedy decided not to approach the final Skywalker trilogy this way. They went into it absent of a plan of what they wanted to accomplish with the story. That's why you get Abrams remaking A New Hope and Rian Johnson just deciding to take a big dump on everything just to be different. It isn't cohesive. They've had to scramble to even figure out who the villain would be in episode 9.

Guardians worked because yes we liked the characters, but also because the story had a beginning middle and end that one might be able to follow. The Last Jedi sucked in large part because the story made no sense.

I, for one, have never been less enthused about a SW movie than ep. 9. TLJ was such a terrible terrible movie.

M.C. Swag said:

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I, for one, have never been less enthused about a SW movie than ep. 9. TLJ was such a terrible terrible movie.

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Let's see if you hold true to that the weeks before it comes out

TFA was 35% ok, TLJ was complete trash (even the prequel trilogy movies were breathing a collective sigh of relief).

I fully expect the final movie which has the worst name of all 9 movies plus spinoffs to be the most terrible one.

At this point I'll see the final movie expecting a train wreck and will be shocked if it is better than rogue one.

Why blaim Disney? SW wasn't doing so hot under Lucas before the sell. Anyone else remember the planned 3D rereleases of the movies that were quietly cancelled?

Quad Dog said:

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Why blaim Disney? SW wasn't doing so hot under Lucas before the sell. Anyone else remember the planned 3D rereleases of the movies that were quietly cancelled?

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Disney bought Star Wars three years before TFA. Why wouldn't the rational consumer expect Disney to be responsible for the 1.5 garbage movies in the third trilogy? There's no reason Disney couldn't have fired the crap writers and turned out better stories, but Disney was more concerned with checking minority and gender boxes and adhering to a set timeline instead of getting quality products in theaters regardless of political correctness.

And "blaim," really?

Because Disney had every opportunity to "save" the franchise from the stink of the prequels, those 3D releases, etc. But Kennedy & co screwed it up at every stage. A group of monkeys could have been locked in a room and planned the new iteration of the franchise better than what we got. In all seriousness, this board could have planned a better sequel trilogy in a single week, in a single thread. I genuinely believe that. A sequel trilogy was a lay-up if I ever saw one, but for some idiotic reason they decided to skip the whole trilogy-planning phase, wing it, and remake A New Hope instead.

I spent the last week at Disney and I was thinking about this. Inside Magic Kingdom in Anaheim you have Galaxy's Edge, but then you have in Tomorrowland Hyperspace Mountain (which is Space Mountain retooled with a Star Wars theme), Star Wars Launch Bay where you meet Darth Vader and Chewbacca, Star Tours, Star Wars Path of the Jedi, not to mention Star Wars everywhere you look in both parks.

It's analogous to their approach to the movies, they're oversaturating the market chasing a buck, but quality control is suffering and they're pissing off their fanbase, meanwhile the rest of the moviegoing public is fickle and will move on to the next Harry Potter or whatever tripe Hollywood pukes out.

oragator said:

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I tried to point it out to folks at the time, but 7 was unequivocally depressing proof that Disney had zero original ideas for the franchise other than recycling old crap in a safe way to make their ridiculous monetary investment back. It took 8 coming out before most people finally began to accept it. Solo was the last straw - a decent movie but one with no heart and zero innovation. At that point even Disney realized they were destroying a franchise that even Lucas and the second prequel couldn't kill, and vowed changes.
As far at the GOT writers taking over, their magic was in Martin's already written material, once they ventured outside of that, quality plummeted. So its put up or shut up time for them too.

I will stick it out through 9, since it's kind of been a goal since the late 70's when I learned there were 9, but after that they have to truly earn my money to get me into a theater again. Of the 2 people I saw the prequels with as well as 7 (also my age and saw the original trilogy in theaters), one already bailed after 7, the other is now on the fence for 9. Sad to see. And without a burgeoning younger audience commitment (which isn't happening), and without China coming on board (box office there has been terrible), the franchise doesn't have a bright future.
Part of me wants to see Disney take it up the backside for what the they did, so it's kind of a win win.

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This should only be read in Comic Book Guy's voice.

I feel pretty confident that if you caught Kennedy at the bar, there would be an explanation for all this that sounds sensible.

Brought back the old stars, check
Homage to IV with a director who loves SW, check
Daring directors taking artistic risks, check
Building out the lore via beloved characters, check
Reaching out to new demographics by casting minorities and women in most major roles, check

It's just that TFA was derivative, TLJ was dull and preachy, and R1/Solo were looking backwards. We already knew the ending for both good movies; the movies breaking new ground were average or bad. 5 out of 7 movies in the last 20 years were prequels; 5 out of 7 are generally considered mediocre at best; only 2 have the classic star wars charm/wonder. Half the fan service went poorly due to "subverted expectations" with Luke and Leia. Complete lack of thematic or plot continuity between the two trilogy movies. The people who get excited about casting minorities and women aren't your core space-opera-for-kids-and-man-children demo.

I don't worry too much about plot in sci-fi, they are more about the world and the characters. But TLJ was both overly plotty and full of holes, while TFA could have tried to be just a little less of a ripoff. How many characters in TFA do you enjoy spending time with? How many are you looking forward to spending more time with in IX? Has the world been deepened or are we just filling in very specific predefined blanks?

TCTTS said:

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I'm not going to get into all the minority/gender stuff, but I agree - and have said dozens of times before - that the arbitrary timeline set in place by Iger was to blame as well.

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I don't give a flying F about Disney and their pursuit of PC inclusion....as long as they make a great movie.

Rogue One's lead was female. The other kind of lead was Hispanic. The Rogue One team was non-white male for the most part.

And most SW fans I know rank it in the top three of all SW movies, some #2 and even some #1 over Empire. IMO not just an amazing SW movie but one of my favorite movies of all time.

Make a good movie and no one cares.

I'll never deny anyone the right to criticize and critique Star Wars, but this thread makes me very happy that for me Star Wars is Star Wars and I've loved every single minute of it that I've been lucky to see. Don't care about perceived agendas or failings or whatevers. I couldn't be more hyped for TROS if I was in in the movie. Every day I look around for just one more snippet of news and I'm counting down the days to D23 for more info.

I can't nor do I want to be an adult and say and think adult things about the shortcomings of the franchise when it comes to Star Wars. Too busy loving it.

I have to agree.

I've loved Star Wars since I was 10. No one taking a gigantic dump on the prequels is going to dissuade me from enjoying Star Wars movies. Having said that, I do rank them individually, and 1-2-7-8 don't rank very well compared to 3-6.

For The Force Awakens, I was just happy to see another Star Wars movie. Prior to its annoucement after Disney bought the franchise, I had never expected there to be another movie, let alone trilogy or these stand-alone movies. While watching it, I remember thinking, Okay, Rey is in an Obi-Wan role right now ... it was clearly a re-telling of the original movie. Overall I thought it was handled pretty well, and it did seem to set the stage for some decent things to come.

Then that Johnson clown steps in and just drops a giant stink bomb in the middle of whatever it was that fans thought Abrams had set up previously. The Last Jedi is the worst Star Wars movie ever made (theatrical, not counting the abortive TV movies about the worst character set ever put into Star Wars, teddy bears with rocks and spears). I won't rehash the TLJ bashing here, though.

I remain as giddy as I was with Episode I coming out with regarding to The Rise of Skywalker. Cannot wait to see it, and am hopeful that Abrams can wrap this trilogy (so-called) up in at least a respectable manner.

The internet loves to hate TLJ, but it was a fine movie and a big box office success. The next movie will be as well. Also the Disney park Star Wars attractions seem to be going really well.

I don't think there is any risk of Disney driving Star Wars into irrelevance. Disney doesn't really care about catering to old guys on the internet. Young people have always been the Star Wars target demographic.