harrierdoc said:

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Did I not specifically state he should be held accountable and let the justice system fulfill it's duty? All I'm saying, and have told my daughters the same thing, don't allow yourself to be in a position where someone can take advantage of you. Is that not smart? These actresses were adults, making choices based on their desire to succeed. They have some responsibility in this, and by saying they don't, you are falling into the trap that many Americans are in today, that of a victim mentality where they have no control over what happens to the when, in fact, oftentimes, what happens to them are a direct result and consequence of their actions. As an adult, one should have the ability to discern right from wrong. One person committing a wrong doesn't mean that there cannot be two people who commit wrongs.

Oh, and, by the way, what exactly are the "rules" you speak of? The law? I said he should face the music, both criminally and civilly. What other rules are you speaking of?

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I won't mince words: when I hear somebody say something like this in real life, it is almost always a harbinger for somebody who hates women. Probably also thinks women who wear a short skirt were 'asking for it'.

What I will agree with is that what you've described maybe isn't the smartest thing to do... every good Dad has and absolutely will tell their daughters 'hey... don't do X because it can put you in a bad situation'. That's obvious. But where I take exception to your post is the word 'responsibility'... especially when it comes to fellow humans who should know right from wrong. Rape is a moral issue. It is morally wrong to sexually assault anyone in any circumstance... and the rapist is the aggressor in the matter. Hard stop. Putting one's self in a vulnerable spot, while not smart, doesn't make them culpable if they are sexually assaulted.

Calling the victim responsible is conflating rape from a moral issue to a safety issue. You are basically telling the woman 'don't stick your arm into the lion's cage it might get eaten'. Again... smart advice. But the other side of the coin on that advice is you've basically put the responsibility to the person with the arm and not the lion to ensure their arm is safe. And that is because the lion just doesn't know any better. What makes dealing with humans different is everybody should know that sexually assaulting somebody else is wrong. Putting responsibility back to the victim whether you want to admit this or not is EXCUSING the rapist from terrible behavior that they should absolutely know better about. And if they don't? Then they need to be locked up from society.

Reading the last few pages makes me feel like this guy, when he realized who he was surrounded by...

harrierdoc said:

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Raised by a single mother, and two grandmothers. Why? Because I was the result of a rape. If you think I hate women, you are sadly mistaken. I empower women. I expect a woman to be like a man in every way, other than phenotypic expression. I don't see a difference just because if their chromosomal makeup.

Reality is, however, that there are those out there that don't see things that way. In a utopia, you all are correct. Anyone could do what they want, when they want, how they want. But, we live in this world, and that's not reality. Never has been, never will be. So, you have to be smart and act responsibly at all times. If not, that's on you, because no one else out there is going to care. Oh, they may say they care, like the women who were assaulted by HW early on. If they really did care, no one wild have worked for him, and he would not have been successful. Will things change because of his downfall, I hope so. But there will always be people willing to provide sexual favors for professional advancement. And since that's the case, there will be predators there to take advantage.

Your desire to make a point about rape is blinding you to what I'm saying. Your hatred for personal responsibility is evident. HW is solely responsible for his actions. I agree with you on this account.

Really, what got me going was the comparison of the physician relationship with that of a Hollywood mogul. Clearly, there are not the same societal expectations of duty and service of the two.

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As somebody said to somebody else earlier... I don't care what your background is that makes you think you have some special insight on the matter: your position is sexist and short-sighted. I'll also say there's one thing in this world that would definitely change your perspective on this matter... and it is so horrible that I'm both not going to type it and just say that I genuinely hope you are never convinced that your current view is short-sighted. So we will leave all of this where it is.

And to Kyle: this is why you hold politics aside in this debate. Call it utopian or whatever, but going on a 'personal responsibility' rant in a matter so terrible as sexual assault... is utterly insane outside of the assaulted being responsible for their own actions. Sexual assault is an aggressive act perpetrated by one aggressor. But you let people get away with preaching about personal responsibility of the victim when you make it about politics and not just basic morality,

And to the last point...man that point might piss me off more than your deranged view of 'responsibility' for an assault. Not the same 'societal expectations of duty'? What does that even mean? Doesn't matter what your role is... your 'societal expectations of duty' is to not assault people. HW isn't less morally repugnant than Nasser. They both took advantage of the power they had (one's power was trust, the other was power in their industry) and did some terrible things,

Holy ****ing ****, did I just click on r/incels? WTF.

Not surprised at all to find out that some of you did not have men in your lives growing up.

Body By Fisher said:

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Holy ****ing ****, did I just click on r/incels? WTF.

Not surprised at all to find out that some of you did not have men in your lives growing up.

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That's sort of how I feel reading this. When I've read that incels board I often question if most of it is a troll.

harrierdoc said:

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And you honestly think that the public, as a whole, doesn't give a higher level of trust to spiritual leaders, healthcare providers, and educators? Is that what I'm understanding? Maybe not where you live, but in my community, they certainly held at a higher expectation. Should they? Idk. But again, reality trumps fantasy, where it appears most of you live.

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But you're holding women to an even higher standard, because you're blaming them for their assault even while you claim otherwise.