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*** LOVECRAFT COUNTRY *** (HBO Series)

20,872 Views | 230 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by bluefire579
TCTTS
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AG
The show I'm producing - which has led to my path crossing with the very people responsible for Lovecraft Country - is *literally* about race as well. So, according to your genius theory, in meetings I've had with these people about our racially-themed endeavor - the show we would be/are making together - these people have *hidden* their true ideology from me and others - the very people they need to be in sync with to get their agenda across - in order to push their *real* agenda... about race?

fig96
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Tibbers said:

And what happened in 2017? Fair enough. I dont doubt these folks are not mean people in person, particularly to those they would be working with in the future. That doesn't excuse their ideology or project choices.
There's nothing for them to excuse.
Tibbers
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You're proving my point but carry on.

More projects about race, don't ya love it!

That being said, congrats on your show.
TCTTS
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TCTTS
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Please, I would LOVE to hear why a show *about* race is such a problem for you, without going to the "white people bad" well. Because our show has absolutely nothing to do with that angle.
Tibbers
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I alluded to city of angels, a great show that focused on race in a meaningful way. It's just a pattern of behavior across most entertainment outlets. As I mentioned earlier, it's being incentivized and encouraged in film school.

As to why its a problem, I think the best way to deal with race issues is to show that they are only mental constructs. We are all the same except for cultural differences. When we can learn to laugh about those differences and not be inflamed by an incredibly small percentage of bad actors (racists), we can grow beyond focusing on color.

Now, and this is devoid of sarcasm, I'm sure your show will handle the subject matter gracefully. I have great confidence in your ability and think you will knock it out of the park.

Seriously, congratulations dude! That's an incredible accomplishment! I will watch your show as well.
dave94
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Tibbers said:


As to why its a problem, I think the best way to deal with race issues is to show that they are only mental constructs. We are all the same except for cultural differences. When we can learn to laugh about those differences and not be inflamed by an incredibly small percentage of bad actors (racists), we can grow beyond focusing on color.



I don't know if you're serious about the solution to racial issues being that ridiculously simple, or just continuing the rhetoric of "just get over it". Or pushing the agenda that it's not so bad, we can just say it's over and boom, done!

That's just ludicrous.
TCTTS
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Tibbers said:

I alluded to city of angels, a great show that focused on race in a meaningful way. It's just a pattern of behavior across most entertainment outlets. As I mentioned earlier, it's being incentivized and encouraged in film school.

As to why its a problem, I think the best way to deal with race issues is to show that they are only mental constructs. We are all the same except for cultural differences. When we can learn to laugh about those differences and not be inflamed by an incredibly small percentage of bad actors (racists), we can grow beyond focusing on color.

Now, and this is devoid of sarcasm, I'm sure your show will handle the subject matter gracefully. I have great confidence in your ability and think you will knock it out of the park.

Seriously, congratulations dude! That's an incredible accomplishment! I will watch your show as well.

Re: my show, I appreciate the support. I really do. At the very least, it'll be different from anything you've seen, and will tackle some of these themes in a way that's completely fresh and unique.

As for your race-as-a-problem explanation, however, we simply have a fundamental disagreement there.

I know you and others mean well with the "I don't see color! We're all the same!" sentiment. I get it. I do. But the more I've listened to people of color, the more I've come to understand how dismissive that sentiment can be. Because the fact is, in many instances, we ARE different. Beyond just the color of our skin. Our experiences, our history, our traditions, the way we're treated, etc, can at times be very distinct and separate, sometimes in very tangible and horrific ways. So, in that sense, certain black people don't want to hear the platitude that race - i.e. their history, traditions, the way they're treated, etc - is merely a "mental construct." Because it's not. It's so much more than that. Black people are instead saying, "We ARE different, and we want you to accept us ANYWAY." And only when we realize that - when we stop dismissing their experiences and point of view as nothing more than a "mental construct" and "victimhood mentality" - will they be validated in the way they're seeking. But that validation can only come from empathy on our part, which, as I spoke to earlier, is what they're ultimately seeking in these stories they're telling.

In other words, as long as people like you keep saying, "Race doesn't matter, get over it," the more people like them are going to keep making race a priority in the stories they're telling, as a means to try and get you to understand that it *does.* Yes, the goal is to eventually "grow beyond color." But we can't do that until our differences our first acknowledged, and then truly reckoned with.
dave94
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So wonderfully stated.
bluefire579
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Saxsoon said:

I was just reading up on the book at it is actually 8 interconnected short stories. Reading it now before starting the show
I mentioned this earlier (not sure if I missed others, but you might be the first person other than me who's mentioned reading the book). While I'm enjoying the adaptation, I think it could have been presented better and made more clear from the start. Reading others' reactions, it seems to have caused some confusion and led to some misjudged expectations in a few areas.
Tibbers
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You mistook my meaning again. My concern is the negative approach to our cultural differences.

What in your estimation do you mean by "reckoned with"? As in cultural revolution? How many shows do we need to focus on the negative aspect of cultural difference?

50 shows? 100 shows? All shows? How much is enough and when does it turn off? When is the final peace accord between all races?

You're right that everyone has a different story but that doesn't always include hateful interactions, ya know? Take growing up as a white kid in downtown Detroit or downtown San Antonio or down in McAllen. The roles would be reversed and so would the treatment. It isn't so cut and dry.

There is a way to show cultural difference with positive effect. I find it troubling that we do not see more of that. Instead, we are treated to only the wicked underbelly. There are plenty of stories that speak to positive outcomes and people coming together. My hope is your show will highlight that because we need more of that story.

Shows that focus on only the negative interactions and differences between people serve only to greater that divide in young people's minds. I do not subscribe to that theory. I was raised to not fall prey to that style of pitfall thinking. We really are all the same minus small cultural differences and there are millions of stories to be told that depict exactly that.

So why then do we live in the dread of difference when it is our strength?

Shows like Lovecraft peel back the curtain of their heart.

Duncan Idaho
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Yeah I think this show is suffering from the modern series format especially on premium cable channels.

No one is anticipating a series of weekly bottle episodes. If you are going to make a high profile show on a streaming service or premium cable channel that isnt going to follow a season long arc, you are going to need to make that clear from the beginning of the marketing.
fig96
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The fraction of shows that you're complaining about is kind of fascinating.

I'd bet easily 75% of mainstream tv is shows about white suburban/middle class characters, much less not shows that focus on racial division. And of that remaining 25%, maybe a handful are focused on race and portraying primarily negative events.

Even then, it's really sad that I learned about an event like the Tulsa Wall Street Massacre from an HBO show and not a textbook. Just because a show deals with inflammatory topics doesn't mean it serves to divide people. We learn through allegory and storytelling, and a story needs to show both the ugly side and the successes to be effective.

And even then, this is a show focused on a group of African American characters in the 50s. Should it be whitewashed and show them just living a wonderful life with no problems, or should it show some of the struggle these characters would have gone through?

Recent events have shed light on things that lots of people haven't ever really thought about because it doesn't affect them in our day to day lives. Your concept of just ignoring those things and all getting along makes it easier for those people, but it doesn't serve to help people who are still dealing with those issues every day.

So yeah, sometimes we do need shows that don't just show us as all getting along despite our minor cultural differences, because oftentimes the world isn't like that.
fig96
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Duncan Idaho said:

Yeah I think this show is suffering from the modern series format especially on premium cable channels.

No one is anticipating a series of weekly bottle episodes. If you are going to make a high profile show on a streaming service or premium cable channel that isnt going to follow a season long arc, you are going to need to make that clear from the beginning of the marketing.
I mentioned this a page or two back, I think we all expected a season long quest for Tic's dad and then that all wrapped up in ep 2. And even then, I feel like there's a lot of questions that went unanswered.

From other folks here it sounds like things will wrap back around and tie in at some point, we'll see how effectively the show can pull that off.
TCTTS
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Just FYI, for those still watching, episode four is out early on the app and on demand due to it being Labor Day weekend.
fig96
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I got a notice of an ep and thought it was an error, thanks for the heads up.
fig96
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No discussion at all on ep 4, interesting.

I thought this was a fun episode actually, had a bit of an Indiana Jones/Tomb Raider vibe to it. It did feel like something a bit more connected to the overall narrative rather than a standalone story, and that very last scene was a gasp for me.

Next week should be interesting.
Duncan Idaho
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Episode 4 was what I expected episode 2 to be.
Faustus
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I don't know whether to give this show a go based on reading this thread or not.

I like Lovecraft stories, and the racial aspects give me no pause, but the critical comments from posters whose opinions I trust do. Will probably try just based on the first factor.
fig96
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Completely agree.
Duncan Idaho
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Honestly, there is so much quality content available, I'd probably skip.
Tobias Funke
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This week was great. Directorial opportunity to flash the *adventure* chops and I thought landed it pretty well. Just violent and weird enough not to be campy, but still a very Speilbergy-fun ride.

No idea where this show is going. With a lot of shows that could be a bad thing, but for this one I'm still pretty "in".
TCTTS
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Damn it, you guys have me wanting to give this episode a shot...
Victory Dance
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i thought this episode was much better than the last too, and i agree with the indiana jones comparison, felt that too and liked it.
dave94
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Even the score during their adventure was very Williams-esque.
boboguitar
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So are christina and william the same person?
Btron
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How is this showing doing? Rating wise? I bet it's a huge drop-off from the premier right?
bluefire579
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Btron said:

How is this showing doing? Rating wise? I bet it's a huge drop-off from the premier right?
According to Wikipedia, it's been a little up and down. 1-3-5 are all about the same, with 2 having a decent rise and 4 having a decent fall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovecraft_Country_(TV_series)#Episodes
Duncan Idaho
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the last episode was pretty terrible
fig96
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Way too graphic for my tastes. Interesting concept though.
bluefire579
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Yeah, definitely not one for the squeamish
Duncan Idaho
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fig96 said:

Way too graphic for my tastes. Interesting concept though.


I just dont think they have the budget to do the effects they should have done. Which wouldn't be a problem if they admitted and filmed it in a way that reflected that budget.

Duncan Idaho
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This week's episode was a perfect example of what I was talking about. If this week's monster had been shot only with shadows or silhouettes, it would have been a good episode but instead the sharknado quality cgi made it pretty much unwatchable
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Robert C. Christian
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C@LAg said:

so worth it or not?

I have everything downloaded, but was waiting for a consensus.

I am not interested in it if it is "just entertaining". Is it "must see"?

No. That is the opinion I've come to after watching all episodes except the one last night.
 
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