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New Oscars Standards

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TCTTS
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In reply to Enrico Palazzo • 9:54p, 9/10/20
AG
Old Tom Morris said:
Please elaborate on these dozen ways. The video appears to show that he had the knife in his hand already before getting in. Gonna wrestle the guy wIth a knife? Going to shoot the knife out of his hand?

"appears to show" being the key phrase here. You're jumping to a pretty big conclusion there to justify the cop's actions.

Regardless, there are countless opinions out there offered by former and current officers in this vein...

Quote:
When it comes to a situation justifying drawing his or her gun and actually pulling the trigger, circumstances are limited, according to Kirk Burkhalter, a retired New York Police Department detective and New York Law School professor.

In the video of Blake being shot, Burkhalter said it was especially alarming to see Sheskey first grab Blake's shirt, and then immediately start shooting, a quick escalation in tactics, skipping over other means of subduing Blake.

"Grabbing someone by the shirt is a far lesser use of force," Burkhalter said. "You know, that's like going from zero to 60."

When other cops are saying there were other options, I'll take their word for it. But even watching the videos, with my own, untrained eyes, it's pretty easy to see how quickly and easily Sheskey gives up trying to apprehend Blake physically, goes straight to his gun prematurely, and then allows Blake to go to his car, gun drawn, instead of continuing his efforts physically or with a taser again. The whole thing is suspect.
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Enrico Palazzo
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10:01p, 9/10/20
A knife was recovered. We know he had a knife. If you want "suspect", having a knife and fighting guys with guns is suspect. Your ass is gonna get shot
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TCTTS
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In reply to Enrico Palazzo • 10:12p, 9/10/20
AG
WHERE the knife was is key. You keep conveniently ignoring that fact. If the knife was in the car, and Sheskey didn't continue to use other means of apprehension before essentially letting Blake walk to his car, your argument falls apart. If Blake had the knife in-hand while walking to his car, and that's your excuse for Sheskey pulling the gun, then why did Sheskey first attempt to physically apprehend Blake and attempting to tase him - if, according to your argument, brandishing a knife should = being riddled with bullets?
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Humorous Username
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10:14p, 9/10/20
AG
Good Lord this thread has turned into a crap fest.

I appreciate TCTTS giving examples of what fits the criteria.

Not a huge Oscar person, but it's an interesting piece of pop culture news.
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TCTTS
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In reply to Humorous Username • 10:17p, 9/10/20
AG
Agreed.

I hate that I'm somehow allowing myself to argue about Jacob Blake in an Oscar thread on the Entertainment board.

Putting an end to that... now.
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Ol_Ag_02
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In reply to TCTTS • 10:18p, 9/10/20
AG
Deleting based on your post a minute prior. Time to move on for all of us.

Let's all discuss Tenet some more.
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Enrico Palazzo
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10:19p, 9/10/20
Getting your ass stomped is what you were doing.
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TCTTS
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In reply to Enrico Palazzo • 10:31p, 9/10/20
AG
Ah, yes, the same old song and dance where in an F16 poster so often prizes those who disagree with him as getting their ass "stomped" and "owned" above all else. The same old Billy Bad Ass rhetoric that tells me all I need to know about who I'm arguing with. Consider me "stomped," I guess, if it makes you feel better. Just know that every time you guys talk like this - which is most of my interactions with F16 - I picture the "Boom Head Shot!" moron and just shake my head at how much of an agro idiot you sound like...

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Enrico Palazzo
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In reply to TCTTS • 10:33p, 9/10/20
You are so above it all and we are so not worthy of your presence on this board.

And that post was just to amuse myself to see how done you were. I got the answer I expected. Let the hate flooow.
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TCTTS
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In reply to Ol_Ag_02 • 11:29p, 9/10/20
AG
Unfortunately, I'm still not able to see it. So I can't even join that discussion yet.
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Lathspell
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9:18p, 9/11/20
AG
Lawl.
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ag88man
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1:20p, 9/12/20
AG
Just to lighten the mood.

From the Bee:

Academy Strips 'Schindler's List' Of Best Picture Award Due To Lack Of Diversity

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rhutton125
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2:47p, 9/12/20
AG
I skipped a couple pages so this isn't a direct response to anyone.

I recently read a story about how a Marvel Comics exec wanted there to be more diverse characters, so some writers sat down and quickly came up with Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Sunfire, etc. - the second generation of X-Men. Many of whom have been fan-favorites ever since.

The reasons behind the Oscars initiative may not be totally genuine but if it helps equality in the industry (particularly behind the camera), then perhaps it'll be worth it in the end. Anthony Mackie recently had some comments on the issue - that every Marvel film he's done has had close to 100% white crew. Then Black Panther does it with a black crew, wins Oscars, and Marvel goes back to white crews again anyway.

Just food for thought. Thought it was interesting.
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TCTTS
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In reply to rhutton125 • 2:50p, 9/12/20
Fenrir
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In reply to rhutton125 • 3:27p, 9/12/20
From what I recall, his point was that it wasn't genuine. It was all part of the marketing of the film.

To compare to the oscar issue, film companies will just make sure they diverse enough for their oscar film candidates and continue to hire who they want for the rest.
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Lathspell
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In reply to rhutton125 • 5:35p, 9/12/20
AG
Quote:
Anthony Mackie recently had some comments on the issue - that every Marvel film he's done has had close to 100% white crew. Then Black Panther does it with a black crew, wins Oscars, and Marvel goes back to white crews again anyway.
This comment alone 100% explains why I think this is ridiculous.

An over hyped movie gets all the accolades simply because of "representation" does not = black crew is greater than white crew. Also, the term "close to 100% white". What the hell does that mean? So, not everyone was white, just the majority? People do realize there are more white people in this country than black people, right?

Again, if Hollywood finally wants to act on all of their talk about "representation" and hire more minorities, all power to them. It's all posturing anyways and they do not believe in diversity of thought, just diversity of things that are skin deep. I also don't have to hear about them patting their own backs; just do silently. Learn from Chadwick Boseman and take care of your business and do the right thing without making a big deal about it.

How about make a real difference with outreach programs in inner cities and spending all that money on getting young black kids into after school programs where you teach them about everything that goes on behind the scenes of movies so they realize the opportunity is there? Show them how they can get involved in the industry?

How about start teaching these children they aren't victims of the world when they are young and that they live in a land of opportunity if they work hard for it? Teach and show them the lies they are taught by their Democrat leaders of their failed cities are not true.

Going out and hiring all of the small group of minorities for a project who are in the industry already is not remedying the massive problem with America's inner cities. It is simply virtue signaling at its finest.
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rhutton125
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5:47p, 9/12/20
AG
"Close to 100% white" was me paraphrasing from memory, not an actual quote.

Here's the actual article. He says hire the best person for the job. He's also built homes in New Orleans and raised money to support essential workers during COVID and stuff like that. So I think he does practice what he preaches, from anything I've read or heard.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety.com/2020/film/news/anthony-mackie-marvel-diversity-falcon-winter-soldier-captain-america-1234692295/amp/
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Bruce Almighty
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6:05p, 9/12/20
AG
What does crew mean? The director was black, I'm sure the costume and set designers were black, but from a quick glance, the editors, cinematographer, and composer were white. I imagine most of the special effects were done by white or Asian people as well.
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Fenrir
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In reply to rhutton125 • 6:20p, 9/12/20
Thanks for posting the link, been a while since I read his comments. I take his point as more of an argument against nepotism which is something Hollywood has a clear problem with.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to Bunk Moreland • 8:14p, 9/12/20
AG
Bunk Moreland said:
Rick Dalton said:
It's not surprising that most of the posters here are focused on the on-screen representation requirement, but that's just one of four categories and they only have to meet two of the four (and not until 2024):

Maybe because 'on-screen representation' the way they put it should have zero bearing on what was the best picture of the year. And we all know what that requirement will ultimately do to the movies that do get nominated and ones that don't. It could also incentivize sacrificing art for checking boxes, which ultimately waters down films even more.

But take that shot at the e-board posters. Hollywood has never given us any reason to question motives behind decisions like this...never at all.


I read something on John Boyega's Disney comments that basically said this. The gist was that Disney was so focused on bringing in all of these characters to check inclusivity boxes that they basically killed all semblance of story. There was no real part in the overall story for them, so they all got pushed to the side. What they were left with was a jumbled mess of crap that made no sense because they had all of these extra characters that had potential and were made out to be somebody but ultimately played no real part.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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1:54p, 9/13/20
AG
Back from my ban thanks to Muck, and didn't even get my $10.
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TCTTS
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 2:00p, 9/13/20
AG
Ha, what happened?
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TCTTS
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1:38a, 9/14/20
AG
Wow. This might not be as interesting to some, but I found this thread/conversation to be INCREDIBLY fascinating and well-argued on both sides. It's basically David Simon, creator of The Wire, arguing that *any* writer, no matter their color, should be able to write for *any* character, no matter their color. While another writer - someone I'm unfamiliar with - eventually starts a lengthy discussion with Simon in response, arguing that, in the current climate, only people of color should be able to for write people of color (rather, he's a bit more nuanced than that, and speaks more to showrunners, it seems). And it's just a monumental back-and-forth. I ultimately lean toward Simon, but this Reyes guy, again, does make some good points as well. Either way, for those interested, especially as it pertains to this thread, this is definitely worth your time...



(And just FYI, because the term is used a lot, BIPOC stands for "black, indigenous, and people of color.)
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TCTTS
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In reply to TCTTS • 1:52a, 9/14/20
AG
Damn it, the thread overall goes in like three different directions, not all connected directly to the one above. Here are a couple other routes to the main part I'm referring to...




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tysker
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In reply to TCTTS • 8:55a, 9/14/20
AG
Isn't it just a numbers game? Most of the people in the US are non-black. When black writers, who by their own standards, are writing black-only characters, there is going to be a naturally limited market.
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Lathspell
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In reply to tysker • 9:01a, 9/14/20
AG
tysker said:
Isn't it just a numbers game? Most of the people in the US are non-black. When black writers, who by their own standards, are writing black-only characters, there is going to be a naturally limited market.
You aren't allowed to bring logic and rationality into these discussions. Sorry, come back later on your knees while wringing your hands and asking for forgiveness for your racism.
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Fenrir
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In reply to tysker • 9:10a, 9/14/20
I think it would be interesting to see if the same guy saying that only <insert intersectionality trait> can write characters that are <insert intersectionality trait> complains at all about a lack of representation of <insert intersectionality trait> in modern media.
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Chipotlemonger
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9:17a, 9/14/20
AG
In case anyone doesn't want to go down a Twitter rabbit hole on that, most people are calling her out for that take. Someone posted a link to this video in there too, and it fits.

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tysker
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In reply to Lathspell • 9:20a, 9/14/20
AG
DallasTeleAg said:
tysker said:
Isn't it just a numbers game? Most of the people in the US are non-black. When black writers, who by their own standards, are writing black-only characters, there is going to be a naturally limited market.
You aren't allowed to bring logic and rationality into these discussions. Sorry, come back later on your knees while wringing your hands and asking for forgiveness for your racism.
I guess that's I prefer Sci-Fi and fantasy - where the story, the quest, the conflict, the resolution and the future is more important than the past.
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tysker
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In reply to Fenrir • 9:21a, 9/14/20
AG
Fenrir said:
I think it would be interesting to see if the same guy saying that only <insert intersectionality trait> can write characters that are <insert intersectionality trait> complains at all about a lack of representation of <insert intersectionality trait> in modern media.

Are the same standards going to be applied to the Jews writing gentile characters and gays writing straight characters? God forbid you're both gay and Jewish. It will be pretty limiting... I guess the gays and Jews will have to 'shut up and stick to comedy'
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fig96
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In reply to tysker • 9:35a, 9/14/20
AG
tysker said:
Isn't it just a numbers game? Most of the people in the US are non-black. When black writers, who by their own standards, are writing black-only characters, there is going to be a naturally limited market.
I have to ask...what's a "black-only" character?

I think there's some validity to overall idea, not as a hard and fast rule but it's not unfair to think that a writer of a certain ethnicity/orientation/whatever can more effectively understand the perspective of a person similar to them. The more different that character's experience might be the more true that is.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to fig96 • 9:41a, 9/14/20
AG
fig96 said:
tysker said:
Isn't it just a numbers game? Most of the people in the US are non-black. When black writers, who by their own standards, are writing black-only characters, there is going to be a naturally limited market.
I have to ask...what's a "black-only" character?

I think there's some validity to overall idea, not as a hard and fast rule but it's not unfair to think that a writer of a certain ethnicity/orientation/whatever can more effectively understand the perspective of a person similar to them. The more different that character's experience might be the more true that is.


I agree with you on this, but I think there's a time it matters and there is a time it doesn't.

A good example imo is a show like Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Kaitlin Olson almost didn't join the show because she thought Dee's character wasn't funny enough. The guys told her to bear with them, as they had never written for a woman before. So she told them to not write for a woman, just write something funny, and she would make it apply to her being a woman.

Obviously not every role can afford that freedom, but I think it's a valid point that brings inclusion to a show and made for it being one of the funniest shows of the past decade.

They even make fun of how superficial the selection committees for awards are in one episode, by reducing Dee to a vapid love interest for Mac, in order to win the award for the Best Bar in Philly.
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fig96
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 9:47a, 9/14/20
AG
Totally with you, and I think the key there is they recognized it and made her part of the process. The way they even made fun of it at times is pretty brilliant.

On the flip side, there's been some recent controversy with the show All Rise which is centered around a black female judge. The showrunner is an older white guy, and several writers on the show who are women of color recently left went public with their complaints that he refused to listen to his minority staff and kept including things in the show that many felt were really inauthentic to the character.

From other reports the showrunner seems to have a bit of history of being a condescending jerk which doesn't help things.

https://ew.com/tv/all-rise-writers-quit-over-showrunners-treatment-of-race-and-gender/
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double aught
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In reply to fig96 • 9:58a, 9/14/20
AG
So what if, a few years ago, while casting the show, they said to the lead actress "Sorry, we love you and you're great, but we need a white actress since the writer is white"?
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fig96
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In reply to double aught • 10:03a, 9/14/20
AG
double aught said:
So what if, a few years ago, while casting the show, they said to the lead actress "Sorry, we love you and you're great, but we need a white actress since the writer is white"?
So a few things...

a) Generally not how casting works, they're usually requesting a certain character type from the jump

b) In this case the initial issue was that they decided to make the lead a black woman and then weren't planning to change anything else, which is problematic for a lot of reasons

c) One person doesn't write a show, which is why this isn't really that hard. It's easy to add one writer to the staff of probably 6-7 people writing a show.
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