MookieBlaylock said:

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This was a superbly edited / directed documentary

The lie detector is and always will be nothing but a manipulation technique and this pos bought it hook line and sinker

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I kept thinking that.

Granted I'm not a career criminal, or a potential criminal mastermind, but I would have yelled Lawyer as soon as they start hitting me with the polygraph "results"

Yelnick McWawa said:

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Forgot to mention....LOVED the neighbor with the security footage holding back the responding cop and basically saying Watts was FOS. He knew from the get go.

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Quote:

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Not that you need more depressing info on this case, but there's a YouTube page called "JCS-Criminal Psychology" that breaks down the facts and the interrogation. It shows more detail about the lie detector test and his questioning.

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So...I originally followed this case through the youtube page when it first happened back in 2018.

The neighbor always bothered me because he was in EVERYONE'S business that lived on that street. I've never been a fan of neighborhoods where the garage is in the front of the house because a nosy neighbor can know when you are coming and going.

Caroline Mason. She was great.

A big question I had after watching this was; who gave permission to Netflix to share personal texts between husband and wife? The husband was convicted of murdering her, so doesn't seem like he should be able to give that permission.. and, well the wife is dead.

IMO, her dignity was all but lost after reading some of the messages between them, and between her and her friend.

It seems like those texts between victim and murderer would be confidential information that could only be used by detectives. The texts between her and friend I can MAYBE see being shared, since the friend is alive and an innocent party.

Seems I remember the dateline version said after he killed the daughters, he had to basically break their arms/shoulders to fit them through the 8" hole. That is unfathomable.

I also wondered if he never gave location away, would they find bodies in an oil tank? I built facilities like that at one time, but was never involved in the production or maintenance side, so not sure how often they are cleaned or someone goes in them.

Kellso said:

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I've never been a fan of neighborhoods where the garage is in the front of the house because a nosy neighbor can know when you are coming and going.

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Wouldn't be any different if you had a driveway along your house with garage in the back.. it's the activity in the street that a ring or nosy neighbor can capture.

An alley would be more private however.

third coast.. said:

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they might have been evidence? can you FOIA evidence?

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Hence my statement "It seems like those texts between victim and murderer would be confidential information that could only be used by detectives. "


My questions is why/how does Netflix get it? Is it just up for grabs for anyone that asks for it? or did husband have to give permission? Which seems terrible.

https://www.insider.com/chris-watts-text-messages-before-shanann-murdered-2018-11

Moxley said:

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Yep.

And the police are totally allowed to lie to you about the results, or about anything. Even if he passed the polygraph, if they thought he was hiding something or had more to do with it than he was letting on they would have told him he failed in an effort to pressure him to talk more.

There have been cases where people pass polygraphs, are totally innocent, and the police pressure them into false confessions by telling them they failed. It's pretty messed up.

Never talk to the police. Everything you say will be spun and used *against* you, even if you are telling the truth. They are allowed to lie to you. Always get a lawyer.

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You cant pass or fail a polygraph you can only be manipulated by the person administering the polygraph

They are complete bs but I enjoyed this one very much

Moxley said:

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Yep.

And the police are totally allowed to lie to you about the results, or about anything. Even if he passed the polygraph, if they thought he was hiding something or had more to do with it than he was letting on they would have told him he failed in an effort to pressure him to talk more.

There have been cases where people pass polygraphs, are totally innocent, and the police pressure them into false confessions by telling them they failed. It's pretty messed up.

Never talk to the police. Everything you say will be spun and used *against* you, even if you are telling the truth. They are allowed to lie to you. Always get a lawyer.

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I used to think this.

I would watch the First 48 and wonder why any of these suspects ever spoke to the police without a lawyer...and then a crime happened on the First 48 that happened between some people that I was acquaintance with (the door guy at my gym had a family member get murdered)

Lets say we are all criminals. If the cops interrogate you, or ask you to complete an interview you should do it and have a story already rehearsed.

Many times the cops have no clue who the suspect of the crime is without an informant, or witness. If you refuse to speak to the cops, or ask for a lawyer they are going to immediately suspect you of being involved, and will then focus their investigation on you.

All that being said....the easiest way to not get in trouble is not commit any crimes in the first place.

Yelnick McWawa said:

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Kellso said:

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Moxley said:

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Yep.

And the police are totally allowed to lie to you about the results, or about anything. Even if he passed the polygraph, if they thought he was hiding something or had more to do with it than he was letting on they would have told him he failed in an effort to pressure him to talk more.

There have been cases where people pass polygraphs, are totally innocent, and the police pressure them into false confessions by telling them they failed. It's pretty messed up.

Never talk to the police. Everything you say will be spun and used *against* you, even if you are telling the truth. They are allowed to lie to you. Always get a lawyer.

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I used to think this.

I would watch the First 48 and wonder why any of these suspects ever spoke to the police without a lawyer...and then a crime happened on the First 48 that happened between some people that I was acquaintance with (the door guy at my gym had a family member get murdered)

Lets say we are all criminals. If the cops interrogate you, or ask you to complete an interview you should do it and have a story already rehearsed.

Many times the cops have no clue who the suspect of the crime is without an informant, or witness. If you refuse to speak to the cops, or ask for a lawyer they are going to immediately suspect you of being involved, and will then focus their investigation on you.

All that being said....the easiest way to not get in trouble is not commit any crimes in the first place.

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I'm not sure what you MEANT to post but the above is really, well, dumb.

Have a "story already rehearsed". That's what guilty people do. If you're innocent, get a ****ing lawyer and tell the truth. Do you have any idea how many completely innocent people get absolutely ****ed by cops trying to close a case??

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Yelnick,

I want you to reread what I wrote....especially this:
"Lets say we are all criminals. "

My hypothetical situation is one where we are all guilty criminals....not innocent people.
If you lawyer up, and the cops have no suspects they are going to immediately suspect you of doing the crime.

They will then focus their investigation on you...and if a city funded PD focuses on you they will find something that will incriminate you.

Its really easy to be a Monday morning quarterback and sit back and just state "always have a lawyer".

Many criminals get away with crimes because they can interview with the police very well. Police refer to them as people that "have been through the system"

Doesn't matter what they suspect. It matters what they can prove. And a lawyer can help prevent you from walking into something stupid. And the issue is that you don't know what you are walking into. They may have already decided they are angling in on you. If you do want to go in without, then you'd better be dang sure of when to shut down

Yelnick McWawa said:

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Kellso said:

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Yelnick McWawa said:

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Kellso said:

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Moxley said:

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Yep.

And the police are totally allowed to lie to you about the results, or about anything. Even if he passed the polygraph, if they thought he was hiding something or had more to do with it than he was letting on they would have told him he failed in an effort to pressure him to talk more.

There have been cases where people pass polygraphs, are totally innocent, and the police pressure them into false confessions by telling them they failed. It's pretty messed up.

Never talk to the police. Everything you say will be spun and used *against* you, even if you are telling the truth. They are allowed to lie to you. Always get a lawyer.

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I used to think this.

I would watch the First 48 and wonder why any of these suspects ever spoke to the police without a lawyer...and then a crime happened on the First 48 that happened between some people that I was acquaintance with (the door guy at my gym had a family member get murdered)

Lets say we are all criminals. If the cops interrogate you, or ask you to complete an interview you should do it and have a story already rehearsed.

Many times the cops have no clue who the suspect of the crime is without an informant, or witness. If you refuse to speak to the cops, or ask for a lawyer they are going to immediately suspect you of being involved, and will then focus their investigation on you.

All that being said....the easiest way to not get in trouble is not commit any crimes in the first place.

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I'm not sure what you MEANT to post but the above is really, well, dumb.

Have a "story already rehearsed". That's what guilty people do. If you're innocent, get a ****ing lawyer and tell the truth. Do you have any idea how many completely innocent people get absolutely ****ed by cops trying to close a case??

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Yelnick,

I want you to reread what I wrote....especially this:
"Lets say we are all criminals. "

My hypothetical situation is one where we are all guilty criminals....not innocent people.
If you lawyer up, and the cops have no suspects they are going to immediately suspect you of doing the crime.

They will then focus their investigation on you...and if a city funded PD focuses on you they will find something that will incriminate you.

Its really easy to be a Monday morning quarterback and sit back and just state "always have a lawyer".

Many criminals get away with crimes because they can interview with the police very well. Police refer to them as people that "have been through the system"

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Sorry, Kellso. But you're just doubling down.
Not a chance in hell I'm talking to the cops about anything more than a traffic ticket without a lawyer.

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okay....and if im a homicide detective investigating a whodonit and I have no idea who did the crime....once you lawyer up YOU are going to become the focus my investigation.

I am going to subpoena your cell phone records, facebook and social media activity. Im going to start asking your friends and neighbors about your activities and what kind of person you are.

If I have the power of the government backing me it won't be that hard to find something that ties you to the crime.

Many crimes that go unsolved for long periods of time are that way because the perpetrator gave a convincing story to the detectives investigating the case.

Years later the case breaks open because of new evidence, or DNA. When they look at past case files in many cases the suspect was someone that was initially interviewed.

If that suspect had initially just said LAWYER he/she would have become the person of interest in that case, instead of just a witness.

An innocent person would want to clear their name....not walk in with a lawyer.

I wondered the same thing if they'd have ever found those bodies in the oil tank or if they would have decomposed quickly enough where there never would have been red flags. It's insane he thought he could get away with it. I think I already posted on this thread I made the mistake of watching this at night with a 2 year old sleeping upstairs. I was pretty disturbed and couldn't sleep for ****.

62strat said:

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third coast.. said:

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they might have been evidence? can you FOIA evidence?

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Hence my statement "It seems like those texts between victim and murderer would be confidential information that could only be used by detectives. "


My questions is why/how does Netflix get it? Is it just up for grabs for anyone that asks for it? or did husband have to give permission? Which seems terrible.

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I'm not sure exactly where the law stands on this, but I think considering murderers don't get the benefit of the proceeds of life insurance, they may also lose their status in terms of power of attorney and control of estate. Those messages may not have been his to give away. They may have been in the control of her estate.

My guess is they laid out the case just like the prosecutors were going to in trial. Most of the information and texts likely came from the police files.

Kellso said:

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Yelnick McWawa said:

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Kellso said:

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Yelnick McWawa said:

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Kellso said:

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Moxley said:

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Yep.

And the police are totally allowed to lie to you about the results, or about anything. Even if he passed the polygraph, if they thought he was hiding something or had more to do with it than he was letting on they would have told him he failed in an effort to pressure him to talk more.

There have been cases where people pass polygraphs, are totally innocent, and the police pressure them into false confessions by telling them they failed. It's pretty messed up.

Never talk to the police. Everything you say will be spun and used *against* you, even if you are telling the truth. They are allowed to lie to you. Always get a lawyer.

---

I used to think this.

I would watch the First 48 and wonder why any of these suspects ever spoke to the police without a lawyer...and then a crime happened on the First 48 that happened between some people that I was acquaintance with (the door guy at my gym had a family member get murdered)

Lets say we are all criminals. If the cops interrogate you, or ask you to complete an interview you should do it and have a story already rehearsed.

Many times the cops have no clue who the suspect of the crime is without an informant, or witness. If you refuse to speak to the cops, or ask for a lawyer they are going to immediately suspect you of being involved, and will then focus their investigation on you.

All that being said....the easiest way to not get in trouble is not commit any crimes in the first place.

---

I'm not sure what you MEANT to post but the above is really, well, dumb.

Have a "story already rehearsed". That's what guilty people do. If you're innocent, get a ****ing lawyer and tell the truth. Do you have any idea how many completely innocent people get absolutely ****ed by cops trying to close a case??

---

Yelnick,

I want you to reread what I wrote....especially this:
"Lets say we are all criminals. "

My hypothetical situation is one where we are all guilty criminals....not innocent people.
If you lawyer up, and the cops have no suspects they are going to immediately suspect you of doing the crime.

They will then focus their investigation on you...and if a city funded PD focuses on you they will find something that will incriminate you.

Its really easy to be a Monday morning quarterback and sit back and just state "always have a lawyer".

Many criminals get away with crimes because they can interview with the police very well. Police refer to them as people that "have been through the system"

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Sorry, Kellso. But you're just doubling down.
Not a chance in hell I'm talking to the cops about anything more than a traffic ticket without a lawyer.

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okay....and if im a homicide detective investigating a whodonit and I have no idea who did the crime....once you lawyer up YOU are going to become the focus my investigation.

I am going to subpoena your cell phone records, facebook and social media activity. Im going to start asking your friends and neighbors about your activities and what kind of person you are.

If I have the power of the government backing me it won't be that hard to find something that ties you to the crime.

Many crimes that go unsolved for long periods of time are that way because the perpetrator gave a convincing story to the detectives investigating the case.

Years later the case breaks open because of new evidence, or DNA. When they look at past case files in many cases the suspect was someone that was initially interviewed.

If that suspect had initially just said LAWYER he/she would have become the person of interest in that case, instead of just a witness.

An innocent person would want to clear their name....not walk in with a lawyer.

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Holy crap. This mindset is how innocent people get put in prison.

They can *only* be used against you. There is no such thing as clearing your name by talking to police. It is right there in the Miranda warning. Anything you say can, AND WILL, be used AGAINST you. NOT for you.

There's two seasons of a Netflix series dedicated to different cases of innocent people being convicted based solely on police interviews...people who were just looking to clear their name and be cooperative. In almost all of those cases the police interview was the primary evidence used against them. Absent the interview, there's not even close to enough evidence for conviction.

Watch this video:

Disturbing documentary for sure. I found it fairly well done but painfully repetitive.

ALWAYS get a lawyer...ALWAYS!!!

Wife was a beotch but doesnt mean she should loser her life and my God, murdering your own kids. WTF?!?!

I have two grown boys and have never once thought about harming them in any way.

dcAg said:

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Disturbing documentary for sure. I found it fairly well done but painfully repetitive.

ALWAYS get a lawyer...ALWAYS!!!

Wife was a beotch but doesnt mean she should loser her life and my God, murdering your own kids. WTF?!?!

I have two grown boys and have never once thought about harming them in any way.

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I didn't think the wife was even that bad (at least from what was shown in the documentary), sounded like she had some mood swings and maybe some mental issues she was working through. Overall he didn't kill her because of anything she did or said, he did it because he was selfish and wanted to start a new life with no strings with a young hot co worker.

I have two beautiful daughters and just reading about what he did to his makes me never ever want to watch this. Like many of you, I would fight to my dying breath for kids. I hope this ****er manages to get set on fire and burn to death slowly and then burn for eternity in hell.

Wow I missed so much from this thread!

How did the couple buy that house after filing bankruptcy two years before?

bonfarr said:

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How did the couple buy that house after filing bankruptcy two years before?

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Have you ever seen the Big Short?

Depending on type and when bankruptcy is discharged, you can buy a home again after a certain time frame usually 24 months

Kellso said:

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Female homicide detectives bring a different energy than males, and the female detective on this DOC just manipulated the suspect into admitting everything.

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I didn't realize the "polygraph lady" was a homicide detective. She was probably the most impressive person in the documentary with her matter of fact yet "caring" style.

The strangest thing to me was that they didn't find anything from his past which might indicate he was a psychopath. He seemed sorry that he "snapped" but really never seemed to grasp how horrific his deed was.