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*** FOUNDATION *** (Apple TV+ Series)

15,324 Views | 123 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Sex Panther
TCTTS
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Mathguy64
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If the reviewers are confused by the character development now wait until the first immediate jump of 80 years where none of these characters are around anymore and a new set shows up every episode. Because that's the book. Go 40 pages, skip 50 years with all new people. Then wait until the Mule shows up. More and more it's clear that they are drawing from the prequel books to establish a lengthy backstory.
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TCTTS
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Right there with you.
israeliag
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One episode down and some non-spoilery thoughts:

- Give them all the production design awards. I mean it: take all the past, like, 10 production design Emmys, set aside the next 10 and just give them all to Foundation. This show is visually unbelievable. It's gorgeous, but also so unique and so varied.
- The score is beautiful, but dial it back. Way back.
- It might be my headset, but the ADR seems very poor. I think it's the ADR b/c not all scenes' voice audio sucks.
- This show is beautiful, but it needed to be beautiful: the scope is quite literally galactic, so it (hadn't really thought of this before) had to be beautiful. It had to have such rich costumes, scenery, sets, CGI to really sell and/or match the scope.
- Jared Harris is incredible. I feel that without him, the show is, I kinda hate to say it, but space operatically cheesey. I don't think it is, but because he brings so much gravitas scenes after he's introduced that are without without him feel lacking. I also thought the term "psychohistory" as cringy and worried how it'd sound out loud on TV. Turns out, you just need a Jared Harris and it'll sound practical and serious.

On to ep 2.
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Mathguy64
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Ep 1. was drop dead gorgeous. Apple spared no expense visually.

If you don't know the story and haven't read the source this may be very difficult to follow. That's going to be a challenge.

ETA. Ep 2 was not quite as visually stunning but it still puts in a show.
Ep 2 was complete fabrication. 90% was not source material. Not that it's a bad story. The story was well told but they are clearly trying to flesh out the short story aspect of the early part of the novel by just making things up. Some things really made up.

Cinco Ranch Aggie
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I never read Asimov's Foundation series, but I did read the various Robots books he wrote (I, Robot; Robots of Dawn; The Naked Sun; Robots and Empire). I have a vague recollection of his writing style, so I do kinda anticipate this series being difficult to get fully into. Still, I'll start watching later today.
The Dog Lord
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Just finished the first 2. First episode looked great. I would have been intrigued enough to continue if I hadn't read the books, but it wasn't fantastic. Wife confirmed that it was just okay. By the end of episode 2 she was like "wtf!" and definitely ready to see what's next. They definitely knew the end of Ep. 2 was the way to bait people in.
israeliag
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C@LAg said:

2 hours and not a single tip on how to lay a foundation.


Not sure why you'd spend 2 hours waiting to watch a make up routine when you can watch millions of them on YouTube.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Only watched the first episode tonight. Truly great visuals, and for someone who has not read the book, the makings of a decent story. I'm intrigued enough to continue watching.
TCTTS
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The pilot needed to be two episodes...

- So. Much. Exposition. It was 75% "tell" / 25% "show" (if that). So much voice over. So much explaining of dynamics. So many questions asked specifically so that another character could give a long-winded answer. And it was especially tedious considering a decent chunk of the exposition was - because of the nature of the plot - exposition for events that were literally *about* to happen, thereby stripping the narrative of almost any tension or drama.

- To that end, we needed to SEE and EXPERIENCE the stakes of Gaal's plight on Synnax BEFORE she leaves. The teary goodbyes, the looks she gets from angry neighbors... it all meant nothing in the moment because we had zero context. Context that wasn't given to us until long after the fact for some insane reason. Split the pilot in two and even just ten extra minutes spent with Gaal on Synnax before she leaves - seeing how horrible her planet treats scientists, seeing her learn she won the contest, seeing her parents have to truly sneak her off world, etc - would have worked wonders toward us feeling immense empathy for her character, and establishing an engaging narrative from the jump.

- Then, let's live with Gaal a bit longer on Trantor, through her eyes, under Hari's wing. It wasn't two minutes into their first conversation, though, that he blurts out the real reason he brought her there, once again stripping the narrative of any mystery or tension. Give them at least a couple days together first, let Hari test her a bit more, let Gaal prove her mettle, have them share a bond, Gaal is starting to find purchase in this world, etc, THEN have Hair drop the bomb - What??? - cut to black, end of episode one, and I'm hooked.

- Also, can someone explain to me why the conundrum Gaal finds herself in - having to prove or disprove Hari's equation - explicitly lies entirely in "trillions" of people NOT finding out if Gaal does indeed confirm Hari's equation (this is literally spelled out for Gaal and the audience), yet they willing broadcast the trial - and Gaal's confirmation of Hari's equation - to seemingly the entire population of Trantor? Huh? This made absolutely no sense to me.

Anyway, I'm still somewhat intrigued by the overarching plot, and yeah, the show looks like a million bucks, which usually goes a long way with me. But the problems/fixes were so obvious in the moment that I just left frustrated more than anything, by something that otherwise has so much potential. Hopefully that potential can still be reached, though, and I'm at least encouraged by the reactions to episode two, which I'll try and watch tomorrow.
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TCTTS
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C@LAg said:

they had all that exposition to... lay the foundation for the rest of the season.

hopefully.





Yeah, but a truly talented filmmaker is able to organically weave in exposition more seamlessly than that, and dole it out over a longer period of time, in a way that creates just the right amount of intrigue and even slight, purposeful disorientation.

Also, emotional foundation is far more important than plot foundation. Especially since a fair amount of the exposition in the pilot wasn't even necessary to understand the stakes, and again, could have been doled out over the next few episodes in more interesting ways.

We should be invested in character first, plot second.
TCTTS
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C@LAg said:

also... holy ****, man.




Ha, I always edit the sh*t out of my longer posts. I'll remember additional points, and then, for whatever reason, my brain proof-reads better after the post is published than it does when it's in the text edit box. So I sometimes end up reading the posted version and making one edit at a time. It's a weird, OCD-ish habit, I know, but that's just the way I do it.
KidDoc
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So did Mass Effect (video game series) steal the jump craft from Isaac or did the show steal it from Mass Effect?

Mass Effect jump station:



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FightinTexasAg15
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I was a little let down with the first two episode. I agree, the show is stunning visually but that's about the best thing it has going for it.

I thought the writing seemed a little weak too.

There were quite a few changes from the source material (which I kind of get because I was a little worried that the source material might have been hard to carry over to tv in a way that worked well)

Obviously I'll keep watching but I wasn't as invested as I was hoping
TCTTS
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Ha, wow.
TCTTS
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Yeah, I think I'm out.

Just finished episode two.

I love sci-fi, but this is way too SyFy for me. Roughly the same quality/vibe, only with a bigger budget.

It's just… boring. I don't find a single character, plight, or plot line compelling, even after that ending, which left me more confused than anything, and has now apparently left the show without its best actor.

Really hoping Invasion is a better sci-fi offering from Apple next month.
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TCTTS
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Well, now that you spoiled it, I'm *really* done with this show.
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TCTTS
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Your wording made it sound like Gaal - the main character - is somehow the Foundation.
Aggie_Journalist
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The foundation series was always going to be really hard to turn into a tv or movie series because the author wrote something like 7 books, out of order, and seemed to introduce some big new idea that hadn't existed in any of the previous books and you just kind of had to go along with it for it to make sense.

The tv show is trying to lay the groundwork for everything in season 1 and it's messy because it's a lot of ground to cover and the first book never came close to trying it.

The best comparison I can think of is imagine watching game of thrones but in season 1 there's just humans and no mentions of anything fantasy. And then in season 2 everyone is suddenly talking about dragons as if they've always been a thing and you're retconning dragons into the narrative, and then season 3 everyone is suddenly talking about white walkers as if they've always been a thing and you're retconning white walkers into the narrative. It's a really weird book series in that regard that holds up because of some interesting big sci fi ideas (psychohistory, etc.) and some philosophical dialog.

If I remember right, the first story of the first book is just Seldon being put on trial and being exiled. No attack on trantor. No clone emperors. No terrorism mystery. I'm not sure they even discuss Seldon's death. It's just Seldon's trial, introduce the psychohistory concept, exile, and then jump forward X years to the second story with all new characters. And the characters are barely even characters in the books. Most have zero personality. They're just vessels to move Asimov's story along so he can philosophize.
Thanks and gig'em
Mega Lops
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Just watched a trailer and it looks pretty incredible. Gonna restore my Apple+ sub soon and watch this.

I have never even tried to read Foundation because it seems like an exhausting endeavor. It's been awhile since I've read the wiki for the plot so I don't recall the details. Looking forward to watching at some point.
Phat32
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Thought first episode was pretty interesting. I will give it time just due to visuals alone.
YouBet
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Most interesting thing out of this thread for me is concluding I have no desire to ever read this series.
Quad Dog
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I've attempted to read the series twice. I like the first few books, but always lose interest about the fourth book.
Faustus
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TCTTS said:

C@LAg said:

also... holy ****, man.




Ha, I always edit the sh*t out of my longer posts. I'll remember additional points, and then, for whatever reason, my brain proof-reads better after the post is published than it does when it's in the text edit box. So I sometimes end up reading the posted version and making one edit at a time. It's a weird, OCD-ish habit, I know, but that's just the way I do it.


I'm given to excessive editing of my posts too.
TCTTS
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c-jags
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Faustus said:

TCTTS said:

C@LAg said:

also... holy ****, man.




Ha, I always edit the sh*t out of my longer posts. I'll remember additional points, and then, for whatever reason, my brain proof-reads better after the post is published than it does when it's in the text edit box. So I sometimes end up reading the posted version and making one edit at a time. It's a weird, OCD-ish habit, I know, but that's just the way I do it.


I'm given to excessive editing of my posts too.


I edit a ton. I don't like presenting myself as having poor grammar and sometimes I can be a bit more blunt on R&P or Politics, and think better about what it could mean to the uninitiated. I don't judge.
exp
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This show is beautiful but awful. So disappointing.
 
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