This is a David Simon show. Of course it's political. That's one of his specialties. Stephanie Rawlings-Blake was the MAYOR. The chief of police is a political position. You need to put the crack pipe down.TCTTS said:So far, the inclusion of BLM in this show is neutral and innocuous. In other words, the show itself hasn't taken a stance on BLM. It's merely been a plot device. You're the one making it political.aTmAg said:Dude are you not watching this show? It's not "shoehorning" it's front and center on the screen.Ervin Burrell said:I didn't opine on or defend BLM - I simply pointed out the fact that you shoehorning in a political comment regarding them is embarrassing.aTmAg said:Sorry to break it to you, this show is political. And BLM is bad.Ervin Burrell said:Hmm...you might be on to something.aTmAg said:
My issue is that this show makes it seem like 80% of the department are corrupt cops while that the crusaders are 100% pure. Yet it's likely the other way around. Despite cameras being prevalent, the cases of abuse are still few and far between. If it was as bad as this show, then there would be daily barrage of video of cops kicking the crap out of people. Likewise, the real life BLM has shown itself to be corrupt as hell as they buy multi-million dollar homes and even call people racist for even asking about those allegations.
The Wire was more realistic in my opinion on that front. In that show, there was a crappy system that encouraged laziness and often punished good police work, but most the cops were doing their best and only a few were really bad.
Maybe it's because they are focusing on the Gun Trace Taskforce and they apparently really were corrupt and a book was written about it.
How the hell did you type that last sentence out and not just realize everything you typed above it is drivel? Nah, gotta make a political point and shoehorn in a "BLM bad" comment.
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Politics is absolutely front and center to this show. You are smoking crack if you think otherwise.Ervin Burrell said:I am watching. In the context of asking whether or not the portrayal of these cops as dirty is realistic, the comment about BLM is completely irrelevant. It's also not nearly as "front and center" as you seem to make it.aTmAg said:Dude are you not watching this show? It's not "shoehorning" it's front and center on the screen.Ervin Burrell said:I didn't opine on or defend BLM - I simply pointed out the fact that you shoehorning in a political comment regarding them is embarrassing.aTmAg said:Sorry to break it to you, this show is political. And BLM is bad.Ervin Burrell said:Hmm...you might be on to something.aTmAg said:
My issue is that this show makes it seem like 80% of the department are corrupt cops while that the crusaders are 100% pure. Yet it's likely the other way around. Despite cameras being prevalent, the cases of abuse are still few and far between. If it was as bad as this show, then there would be daily barrage of video of cops kicking the crap out of people. Likewise, the real life BLM has shown itself to be corrupt as hell as they buy multi-million dollar homes and even call people racist for even asking about those allegations.
The Wire was more realistic in my opinion on that front. In that show, there was a crappy system that encouraged laziness and often punished good police work, but most the cops were doing their best and only a few were really bad.
Maybe it's because they are focusing on the Gun Trace Taskforce and they apparently really were corrupt and a book was written about it.
How the hell did you type that last sentence out and not just realize everything you typed above it is drivel? Nah, gotta make a political point and shoehorn in a "BLM bad" comment.
You just see "Team Blue" being portrayed negatively and have to get in a "but, but, but the other side!!!" comment which is the most tiring form of debate there is.
And I don't care how tiring you consider a debate to be.
TCTTS said:
He's been doing this for YEARS. He has an opinion on, and thinks he knows everything about, every subject known to man, and tries his damnedest to make those opinions political. And when you tell him to take it to F16, he only doubles down, and then makes himself out to be some kind of crusader for "truth." It's batsh*t insane behavior, and it never ends.
You are fake news
Next you are going to make up a story about him wanting to get MTV pulled off cable because he doesn't like one of their shows
Please point out where I said otherwise?aTmAg said:Politics is absolutely front and center to this show. You are smoking crack if you think otherwise.Ervin Burrell said:I am watching. In the context of asking whether or not the portrayal of these cops as dirty is realistic, the comment about BLM is completely irrelevant. It's also not nearly as "front and center" as you seem to make it.aTmAg said:Dude are you not watching this show? It's not "shoehorning" it's front and center on the screen.Ervin Burrell said:I didn't opine on or defend BLM - I simply pointed out the fact that you shoehorning in a political comment regarding them is embarrassing.aTmAg said:Sorry to break it to you, this show is political. And BLM is bad.Ervin Burrell said:Hmm...you might be on to something.aTmAg said:
My issue is that this show makes it seem like 80% of the department are corrupt cops while that the crusaders are 100% pure. Yet it's likely the other way around. Despite cameras being prevalent, the cases of abuse are still few and far between. If it was as bad as this show, then there would be daily barrage of video of cops kicking the crap out of people. Likewise, the real life BLM has shown itself to be corrupt as hell as they buy multi-million dollar homes and even call people racist for even asking about those allegations.
The Wire was more realistic in my opinion on that front. In that show, there was a crappy system that encouraged laziness and often punished good police work, but most the cops were doing their best and only a few were really bad.
Maybe it's because they are focusing on the Gun Trace Taskforce and they apparently really were corrupt and a book was written about it.
How the hell did you type that last sentence out and not just realize everything you typed above it is drivel? Nah, gotta make a political point and shoehorn in a "BLM bad" comment.
You just see "Team Blue" being portrayed negatively and have to get in a "but, but, but the other side!!!" comment which is the most tiring form of debate there is.
And I don't care how tiring you consider a debate to be.
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This thread sucks now.
This show is great. But it's going to anger the "back the blue line" crowd. I'm not surprised atm is upset about it.
You can also just fast forward through the scenes you dont give a **** about if it bothers you that much.
Damn, I'm glad I waited a few weeks to watch this show, but now I'm pissed I didn't wait a little longer. This is just so well done, and this role was made for Bernthal. This is the best thing on TV right now.
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Agreed
I will say that Bernthal is a great actor in his nitch. I can't see him in Harry Met Sally, but he's good in what he does.
Tilts head back, rubs neck
"Let me tell you something …" good ol Jon
"Let me tell you something …" good ol Jon
Did a lot of that in episode 5, hah. While that part of the show is important to the story, it's not that well written imo. But it probably had to be included or it would 'just' be a show about police.PatAg said:
You can also just fast forward through the scenes you dont give a **** about if it bothers you that much.
I was enjoying this show but last night's episode had to make it all political. Being disappointed that Hillary lost and worrying about Jeff sessions not going along with any consent decrees.
Thats the great thing about the skip 15 seconds, you just press it until that storyline is off the screen.Duncan Idaho said:
I was enjoying this show but last night's episode had to make it all political. Being disappointed that Hillary lost and worrying about Jeff sessions not going along with any consent decrees.
What an incredible season of TV. Phenomenal, gut-punch of a finale.
I made sure to not look any of the specific details up, I didn't realize where Suiter's storyline was going to go.
Same. Knew nothing. That was crazy.
Fun fact: heard on the Ringer Prestige TV podcast that the interrogations in the show are verbatim from the real life transcripts
Great series.
Late catching up on this but what a fantastic show. Given what Hollywood normally does with "based on actual events" type stories I was surprised they stuck so much to the actual facts of the story and didn't add in a bunch of extra stuff that never happened like they normally do.
I also thought they did a good job showing both sides of the story, including the consequences of the ridiculous charges that were brought for the Freddie Grey case and the police's viewpoint of the riots. There were even efforts to make Jenkins look sympathetic at times and you sort of understood why the higher ups at department initially didn't go after him harder. Highly recommended for anyone that hasn't watched it yet.
I also thought they did a good job showing both sides of the story, including the consequences of the ridiculous charges that were brought for the Freddie Grey case and the police's viewpoint of the riots. There were even efforts to make Jenkins look sympathetic at times and you sort of understood why the higher ups at department initially didn't go after him harder. Highly recommended for anyone that hasn't watched it yet.
I'm midway through episode 5 and my goodness this thing is really good. Episode 1 & 2 got little wonky with the timeline jumping, but from 3 on it's been on fire. It's on par with the best of The Wire in my opinion.
This is definitely the part of a lifetime for Bernthal. I can't think of an actor who could have done it better.
This is definitely the part of a lifetime for Bernthal. I can't think of an actor who could have done it better.
I enjoyed it but I think I would have preferred a chronological telling. I wanted to see the slow ratcheting of their corruption.
Agree. This would have been way better chronological. Just because Nolan does it a lot doesn't mean everybody should.Duncan Idaho said:
I enjoyed it but I think I would have preferred a chronological telling. I wanted to see the slow ratcheting of their corruption.
Just finished it, really good, also really depressing.
aTm is correct that this show is 100% political and David Simon is trying to present a very clear message that the war on drugs has lead to the downfall of police in our modern society. Its pretty hard to deny that as Simon places these conversations in place for that very purpose. But so what? Simon has a message he's trying to convey, he's using a factual and not fictional vehicle here and he makes his point like in six episodes that are nothing short of a masterpiece.
aTm claims that it makes it seem like 80% of the cops are corrupt and I really strongly disagree with that. What it does make it seem, is that 80% of cops are complicit in that they allow these actions to take place and that in some cases they flat out aid in the planting of evidence so that their fellow cops don't suffer. But he also shows how politicians - and in Baltimore you bet your ass those are democrats - are ****ing corrupt and unwilling to fix the issues as well. So why is to hard for him to accept the ****tiness of the police but not the politicians above them? Rhetorical question as I'm sure we all know the answer.
Its not like Simon is making any of this **** up. Its not like the testimony of these officers and others and most of these issues isn't on record. This isn't some woke tv show. its ****ing reality and Simon is doing his best to present it to you in an amazing way.
aTm claims that it makes it seem like 80% of the cops are corrupt and I really strongly disagree with that. What it does make it seem, is that 80% of cops are complicit in that they allow these actions to take place and that in some cases they flat out aid in the planting of evidence so that their fellow cops don't suffer. But he also shows how politicians - and in Baltimore you bet your ass those are democrats - are ****ing corrupt and unwilling to fix the issues as well. So why is to hard for him to accept the ****tiness of the police but not the politicians above them? Rhetorical question as I'm sure we all know the answer.
Its not like Simon is making any of this **** up. Its not like the testimony of these officers and others and most of these issues isn't on record. This isn't some woke tv show. its ****ing reality and Simon is doing his best to present it to you in an amazing way.
I'm only 3 eps in so take that into consideration. I agree with most of what you said. However, I dunno what you mean by Simon accepts the politicians faults. In this show (as well as the Wire, Treme, etc.) he doesn't pull any punches to showing how corrupt the politicians are as well, including the democrats. Damn near every politician shown in the Wire was democrat and crooked as hell, "shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit". This show is centered on the police, so not as much screen time devoted to politicians so far, but it's not like he's painting them in a nice light.MBAR said:
But he also shows how politicians - and in Baltimore you bet your ass those are democrats - are ****ing corrupt and unwilling to fix the issues as well. So why is to hard for him to accept the ****tiness of the police but not the politicians above them? Rhetorical question as I'm sure we all know the answer.
Overall, it seems like this is his epilogue to the Wire. The Wire warned us how the drug war was going to ruin policing (as well as other parts of society), and this shows exactly what happened to the Baltimore police force when they were trained during the drug war. Fake stats, corner clearing, and aggressive policing only teach police bad habits that further enable the "bad apples".
Thought it was good, not great.
Thought the characters were all well played, but Hector IMO was the weakest of the bunch. I just don't think he has the range. It was Marlow with different lines.
Also really dislike the jumping around. I'm not sure when it became en vogue to do storytelling like that, but it only works in very select situations with a limited # of characters. When you've got 10-15 regular characters and you are jumping back and forth on a timeline, it does not help the story.
Thought the characters were all well played, but Hector IMO was the weakest of the bunch. I just don't think he has the range. It was Marlow with different lines.
Also really dislike the jumping around. I'm not sure when it became en vogue to do storytelling like that, but it only works in very select situations with a limited # of characters. When you've got 10-15 regular characters and you are jumping back and forth on a timeline, it does not help the story.
HerschelwoodHardhead said:I'm only 3 eps in so take that into consideration. I agree with most of what you said. However, I dunno what you mean by Simon accepts the politicians faults. In this show (as well as the Wire, Treme, etc.) he doesn't pull any punches to showing how corrupt the politicians are as well, including the democrats. Damn near every politician shown in the Wire was democrat and crooked as hell, "shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit". This show is centered on the police, so not as much screen time devoted to politicians so far, but it's not like he's painting them in a nice light.MBAR said:
But he also shows how politicians - and in Baltimore you bet your ass those are democrats - are ****ing corrupt and unwilling to fix the issues as well. So why is to hard for him to accept the ****tiness of the police but not the politicians above them? Rhetorical question as I'm sure we all know the answer.
Overall, it seems like this is his epilogue to the Wire. The Wire warned us how the drug war was going to ruin policing (as well as other parts of society), and this shows exactly what happened to the Baltimore police force when they were trained during the drug war. Fake stats, corner clearing, and aggressive policing only teach police bad habits that further enable the "bad apples".
I think you may have misunderstood me. He definitely goes after the politicians in this one too and he should. He goes after the entirety of the broken system, but certain posters only want to find fault when he goes after their chosen heros in the system when it's clear Simon finds fault with all of it. I want questioning Simon accepting the fault, I was questioning why posters here don't accept both but rather just one side. I can see how it was confusing tho
Clearly never seen BoschProposition Joe said:
Thought it was good, not great.
Thought the characters were all well played, but Hector IMO was the weakest of the bunch. I just don't think he has the range. It was Marlow with different lines.
Also really dislike the jumping around. I'm not sure when it became en vogue to do storytelling like that, but it only works in very select situations with a limited # of characters. When you've got 10-15 regular characters and you are jumping back and forth on a timeline, it does not help the story.
PatAg said:Clearly never seen BoschProposition Joe said:
Thought it was good, not great.
Thought the characters were all well played, but Hector IMO was the weakest of the bunch. I just don't think he has the range. It was Marlow with different lines.
Also really dislike the jumping around. I'm not sure when it became en vogue to do storytelling like that, but it only works in very select situations with a limited # of characters. When you've got 10-15 regular characters and you are jumping back and forth on a timeline, it does not help the story.
I have not. I've only seen him in two extended shows -- where he played a lifeless, methodical drug-kingpin in The Wire (which worked because he could come off as cold-blooded), and now a lifeless, methodical cop in We Own the City.
Watched it all this week. Really enjoyed it. I agree the jumping around was a bit tough, but I didn't mind it.
I loved the Wire actors. Simon has done that in many of his shows.
I also like that he highlighted crime increasing due to limited and afraid police in the end. He knows it goes way behind the police and less police means more crime.
I loved the Wire actors. Simon has done that in many of his shows.
I also like that he highlighted crime increasing due to limited and afraid police in the end. He knows it goes way behind the police and less police means more crime.
ORAggieFan said:
Watched it all this week. Really enjoyed it. I agree the jumping around was a bit tough, but I didn't mind it.
I loved the Wire actors. Simon has done that in many of his shows.
I also like that he highlighted crime increasing due to limited and afraid police in the end. He knows it goes way behind the police and less police means more crime.
Imo he was saying that the police were refusing to do their jobs in a better way and would rather just not do their jobs if they had to change. That's pretty clear from the opening scene with the doj lawyer. I don't think they ever cut the numbers of police, rather the police were just demoralized and quit working.
MBAR said:ORAggieFan said:
Watched it all this week. Really enjoyed it. I agree the jumping around was a bit tough, but I didn't mind it.
I loved the Wire actors. Simon has done that in many of his shows.
I also like that he highlighted crime increasing due to limited and afraid police in the end. He knows it goes way behind the police and less police means more crime.
Imo he was saying that the police were refusing to do their jobs in a better way and would rather just not do their jobs if they had to change. That's pretty clear from the opening scene with the doj lawyer. I don't think they ever cut the numbers of police, rather the police were just demoralized and quit working.
I kind of took it both ways. I'm sure some were just phoning it in.
I thought it was pretty good, not great. I also loved seeing all of The Wire actors as well. I did think it was a little preachy with the OCR lady. I don't mind him conveying his stance and/or the difficulty of the situation but I think he can show that using the story rather than overtly state it over and over. It's ok to give your audience a little intellectual credit.
Overall, well worth the watch.
Overall, well worth the watch.
Just finished binging this show. It was like getting an extra season of the Wire. Definitely a show to check out if you are a Wire enthusiast. I spent some time in Baltimore in August 2021 for work so now it's kind of cool to be somewhat familiar with some of the scenery. What a fkd up city. But I had fun and zero issues there.
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