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Avatar: The Way of Water (Spoiler Thread)

15,562 Views | 135 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Brian Earl Spilner
dreyOO
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Saw it last night with my wife and three 10ish kids. They all loved it.

Not sure what a normal screening looks like, but I LOVED the visuals in 3D. We talked about it this morning and collectively our favorite parts were just all the exploration and swimming around with no talk. Really no plot needed for that.

I thought the storyline was simpler in a way, but more complex because of the family dynamics. That was pretty cool for all of us. Especially me as the hardass dad on my kids.

The one surprise was the level of unnecessary cussing and hand to hand violence. I'm not complaining here, I was just surprised by it. I'd selfishly prefer less of it, but I think that language is actually pretty accurate for dumbass kids trying to be cool.

One bummer was that our theater was maybe only 60% full.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Seen it twice now. There is one thing that's been bugging me. During the battle, right after the eclipse, the Metkayina clan disappears and isn't seen again until the end of the movie. The whole time the ship is sinking, the Sully's are on their own.

I think the movie was missing a scene here to show when and why they left. I'm gonna guess there was a deleted scene here.
country
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Family and I saw it last night. We clearly aren't in the majority on this one. Everyone thought the visuals were neat but just felt like a long story about a vendetta. Our three kids range from 17 to 14. None of them want to see it a second time.
maroon barchetta
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Seen it twice now. There is one thing that's been bugging me. During the battle, right after the eclipse, the Metkayina clan disappears and isn't seen again until the end of the movie. The whole time the ship is sinking, the Sully's are on their own.

I think the movie was missing a scene here to show when and why they left. I'm gonna guess there was a deleted scene here.


Definitely felt like something was missing there.
cr0wbar
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Considering making this an 'Edible & Avatar' adventure this evening
THE_CHOSEN_ONE
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cr0wbar said:

Considering making this an 'Edible & Avatar' adventure this evening

That's what I did when I saw it, and I feel like that enhanced the experience
Brian Earl Spilner
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If I had edibles I would totally do that.

Thunder18
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

If I had edibles I would totally do that.




This is the way
LB12Diamond
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Seen it twice now. There is one thing that's been bugging me. During the battle, right after the eclipse, the Metkayina clan disappears and isn't seen again until the end of the movie. The whole time the ship is sinking, the Sully's are on their own.

I think the movie was missing a scene here to show when and why they left. I'm gonna guess there was a deleted scene here.


I thought the exact same thing. Where did everyone go??

That was bad writing.
Gig ‘Em Baby!
Brian Earl Spilner
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highpriorityag
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1st one was 10x better
BassCowboy33
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Saw it last night. Seeing it again tonight. Will find a time next week to check out the 2D version.

Also, the 3D was so fantastic, I legit thought I had stuff on my glasses at some points. More than once I swiped at the air to knock away what I thought was bugs or dust.
Definitely Not A Cop
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Seen it twice now. There is one thing that's been bugging me. During the battle, right after the eclipse, the Metkayina clan disappears and isn't seen again until the end of the movie. The whole time the ship is sinking, the Sully's are on their own.

I think the movie was missing a scene here to show when and why they left. I'm gonna guess there was a deleted scene here.


I thought the mom turning on Spider was really dumb. And then they never address it, just all cool in the pool at the end of the movie.
Brian Earl Spilner
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I actually didn't mind that. She sees him as an outsider and was overtaken by rage and vengeance in that moment.

Reminded me of how Catelyn Stark hated Jon Snow.
TyHolden
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I was ready to go after 2 hours....my kids liked it. It's like watching a video game.
TCTTS
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While this was definitely a fun, and at times even jaw-dropping experience, I think I still like the first movie slightly better. There's just something more visceral about the straightforward plot of the original, not to mention the awe of discovering Pandora for the first time.

That said, this was an incredible sequel, if only because there's no one better than Cameron at taking certain threads/ideas from the first movie of a franchise and turning them completely on their head in the second, in a way that's just so cool and fun and thematically resonate. I loved Quaritch & co as Avatars this go around, I loved Sigourney Weaver/Grace playing/reincarnated as Kiri, I loved the idea of Neytiri having to be the one trying to fit in in a "new world," etc. In terms of maximizing plot lines from the original, and zigging where you'd think it zag, it gets an A+. And as someone who was skeptical of the whole kid/family dynamic when first announced, I could not have been more wrong, as I was surprised by how much I loved the entire Sully clan. Yeah, Spider could have been played by a better actor, but I liked the *idea* of the character, and the rest of the Sullys could not have been more perfect or better cast. In that sense, it felt like a classic Disney movie meets classic James Cameron, a marriage that somehow melded together better than I possibly could have imagined.

Overall, it's absolutely a worthy sequel and, if anything, the 850 people we saw it with, cheering when that captain poacher dude got his arm split in two by the space whale, was a moment I won't soon forget.

All that said, a few minor story complaints, along with some major technical ones…

- I think I'm already coming around on this one, but Quaritch & co's hyper-focus on taking out Jake, and Jake alone, didn't quite working for me in the moment. I guess I just thought the bad guys' plan would be "bigger" than that, and technically it was, but I didn't think that a taking-out-Jake-Sully step, as part of their larger plan, would comprise an entire movie. At times it felt a lot like how Riri was used in Wakanda Forever, where killing her was THE sole mission of the bad guys, when it felt like the cat was already out of the bag, and that killing her really wouldn't solve their larger problem. Though, it *was* better explained here and, again, I'm already warming up to it, it just wasn't something I was expecting going in.

- Zoe Saldana/Neytiri felt weirdly sidelined. This was very much a father-son/father-daughter movie, and I don't understand why it had to be. Don't get me wrong, I really liked a lot of that stuff, but it was odd how they hardly let Neytiri have any of those moments/lessons, comparative to Jake. And she really didn't have much of an arc either. If anything, she seemingly became even more hate-filled toward/distrusting of humanity by the end, which was an interesting choice. I understand that's apparently part of her larger arc, though, with Cameron & co saying it's going to take her character going to Earth, in the fifth movie, to finally see that there *is* good in humanity. So I guess I get that aspect, but I still feel like she should have had more to do in this movie.

- This is a small one, but the way the entire water tribe seemed incredibly focused, for days on end, on teaching the Sullys how to learn their ways, felt a bit forced. Plot-wise, the water tribe needed some kind of incentive or something to teach them, otherwise it felt like they were teaching them simply because the plot needed them to. For instance, in the first movie, the Na'vi decide to teach Jake their ways because his presence has something to offer them (they've never met a "warrior dreamwalker" and want to study/learn more about him). That, and the entire time he was learning their ways he felt like a nuisance, as opposed to how invested the water tribe elders seemingly were in the success of the Sullys. Then again, Jake *is* a legend on Pandora, so I get it, I just wish there would have been a bit more reluctance on the part of the elders, other than Kate Winslet's character putting up a fight for approximately 30 seconds.

- I hadn't seen a movie in 3D in probably a decade or so, and I won't be seeing one again in the format until they finally figure out how to make the image brighter. The 3D effect itself was fine, and even cool at times, but man, those f-ing glasses just dim every last frame, to the point where, three minutes in, I knew I was going to have to see the movie again in 2D to actually appreciate what the damn thing really looks like. And this wasn't a theater issue either, as we saw it at our go-to, the Chinese Theater in Hollywood, one of the most famous, state-of-the-art theaters in the world. They know exactly what they're doing, and after all these years this is (still) the best the industry can offer? Be it a brighter image, glasses-less 3D, or freaking holograms, for the love of God just…



- We also saw it not only in IMAX 3D, but in 48 FPS (frames per second), and thank god the high frame rate was only used for certain scenes/shots, because it looked like absolute ass when the story took place above water. Really, it's an identical effect to motion smoothing or the soap opera effect on your TV, and I hated it so, so much. That said, when used underwater, I have to admit… it was kind of astonishing. Something about the "smoothness" and being completely submerged in water is so perfect for the effect. The underwater scenes alone are worth the price of admission, and it was as if HFR was *made* for them… but for underwater scenes only. Because that's how it should have been used - where beneath the surface was almost like a completely different magical experience - as opposed to the way it looked above the surface. It was further confusing that it was used so randomly too, often times switching back-and-forth between 24 FPS (which is standard) and 48 FPS in the same scene, location, etc. One shot would be 24, the next 48, then back to 24 again, for no apparent reason, and it was absolutely maddening.

Anyway, I'll end up seeing it again, in 2D, with the family over the holiday. My dad's three favorite movies are (somehow) Knocked Up, The Hangover, and Old Yeller. He's not a sci-fi guy at all, and as a super conservative oil man, you would think he wouldn't particularly jive with the first movie's message, but for some reason he absolutely loved Avatar. He saw it THREE times, in fact, teared up every single time, and will still randomly/jokingly say "I see you" to me and my sisters. It's wild. So he's stoked to see it while I'm home, and I'm super curious to see how it plays a second time, knowing what to expect this go around (and again, especially in 2D).
maroon barchetta
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Thanks for explaining the 48fps rate thing. I wondered why scenes suddenly looked like I was watching Y&R.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Interesting, I honestly do wonder if it might've been a theater/projector issue because not once did it look dim to me in the entire runtime.

Also my theater didn't have HFR so can't comment there, although I did see the Avatar re-release with HFR and I didn't hate it. (Didn't quite love it either though.)

That said, after two viewings, I think I do place the first one EVER so slightly ahead of 2 for me, mostly because that first experience is just so hard to beat, and I do think the final battle is just a little bit more satisfying overall. (Obviously that had the advantage of not having to leave the story open for sequels.)
PDWT_12
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Got to see it Friday morning and really enjoyed it. I've been a fan of the first one and always believed there was more to it than great visuals and "lol Blue Dances With Wolves" and all that. But this one is considerably better in my eyes.

After a few days to think on it the things I like:
-Call me James Dobson because I loved the focus on the family.

-A friend of mine described it as really sincere and earnest which I like. So much of what we get these days is dripping in irony, or is the movie winking at you like "Hey, we know this is silly but that's what movies do right?" Way of the Water doesn't try to do anything overly clever or convince you it's doing anything more, or that it's embarrassed to be straight forward family action. I like that.

-the visuals are as good as anything you'll ever see. The fact that like, none of it is real kind of breaks my brain a bit.

-The whales are awesome. Need more whales.

-Thought the score was pretty good honestly.

-Zoe Saldana was great again. Also thought Sigourney was good in what is honestly kind of a weird role.

-Action sequences are incredible. Especially the fire fight in the jungle and the final boat sequence. Interesting that he chose to do them in "eclipse time", when it's dark. Feels like typically when a movie has those night time sequences, it's intended to make you confused, hard to follow the action and know who's doing what. That's never a problem here, a testament to the VFX and Cameron's ability to direct action sequences.


The things I didn't love:
-you feel the length just a little. The second act is kind of the only place that drags, it's basically a Planet earth documentary for a place that doesn't exist. Absolutely gorgeous. So hard to complain.

-sort of related, you could feel moments where this thing was cut down from like 4 or 5 hours. Some of the editing and cuts feel awkward, and I think that accounts for the moments that feel like plot holes (where'd everyone go at the end?, etc.)

Eliminatus
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Agree with pretty much all of what you said.

A gorgeous movie that did have some meh writing at times and a couple of cringe moments but just nipitcky stuff really for me.

I thoroughly enjoyed it and would recommend it to others but oddly enough, not sure if it is a hurry back and see again type of movie for me. Not entirely sure why either.

BenFiasco14
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Saw it last night. The worlds bravest pioneer does it again

CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
LouisHerbertWong
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Eliminatus said:

Agree with pretty much all of what you said.

A gorgeous movie that did have some meh writing at times and a couple of cringe moments but just nipitcky stuff really for me.

I thoroughly enjoyed it and would recommend it to others but oddly enough, not sure if it is a hurry back and see again type of movie for me. Not entirely sure why either.


TCTTS
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Brian Earl Spilner
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I'm convinced a space battle is coming in either 4 or 5.
TCTTS
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100%
Four Seasons Landscaping
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Do you think Cameron imagines ships sinking with people on board when he's trying to go to bed at night?
Brian Earl Spilner
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He dreams of Pandoran landscapes and Terminators coming out of a fire.

(Both true.)
TexAgs91
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

He had been leading the Na'vi insurgency and was talked about as being a pretty good strategist who was kicking their asses. Seemed fairly straightforward to me why they wanted to take him out.

Also it was personal for Quaritch, since he saw him as a traitor to his race.
It may have been personal for Quaritch, but he wouldn't have been there if they hadn't brought him back, seemingly to go after Sully.
No, I don't care what CNN or Miss NOW said this time
Ad Lunam
Brian Earl Spilner
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Right, for the reasons stated above.
Eliminatus
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Anyone else thinking Quaritch is going to pull a redemption arc a la Jaime Lannister like I am?

Or is that way too complicated for the writers to pull off?
Brian Earl Spilner
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I actually do suspect that's what they might do. It would be a hell of a thing considering how much of an unredeemable villain he started out as.
Definitely Not A Cop
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The guy can survive underwater and unconscious for like 5 minutes. After coming back from death. He can do anything he wants to.
The Porkchop Express
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Definitely Not A Cop said:

The guy can survive underwater and unconscious for like 5 minutes. After coming back from death. He can do anything he wants to.
He's no Kate Winslet.
BassCowboy33
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The Porkchop Express said:

Definitely Not A Cop said:

The guy can survive underwater and unconscious for like 5 minutes. After coming back from death. He can do anything he wants to.
He's no Kate Winslet.
I'm fascinated by Na'vi lungs and their capacity to deal with CO2.
PDWT_12
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I don't know about redemption but I do think having him in Na'avi body could create some interesting stories in terms of like internal struggle and stuff. I don't know if they will go that route, but it was one of the first thoughts I had when he survived.
 
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