Disney: Less Marvel/Star Wars going forward
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Last: 2 yr ago by YouBet
that would've been awesome!!!TCTTS said:
After Endgame they should have moved directly into setting up the X-Men reboot. It was the perfect time. Instead, spending an entire phase of every character essentially sulking in the fallout from the blip, with no new central villain to setup, will go down as one of the most bone-headed franchise moves ever.
I'm also in agreement that Fantastic Four is a lame duck. I'm sorry, but no one outside of core comic book fans gives a sh*t about those characters at this point. Maybe if they set the first one in the '60s or something, and it pops as something unique and different, then have them go off to space and rejoin in present day for later movies. Something along those lines.
Otherwise, waiting until 2026 to reintroduce the X-Men feels like such a needless stall.
dreyOO said:My 11 year old daughter was a baby Yoda super fan. Shirts, posters, hats, backpacks, probably has 10 dolls. To the point of traveling through the airport with her Baby Yoda in her arms a few years ago.Gap said:
Since we are on Disney+ series topics, I have yet to watch Mandalorian Season 3 as it didn't hear good things about it. Is it worth watching and sticking with or should I just end it after the two seasons that I've watched?
We're 3 episodes through Season three and it's been painful to get motivated for more. Totally lost steam and I think she only watches them now for me as a bonding event.
Almost identical to our house.
I think there's a little revisionist history here. No one was interested in the Avengers (much less Guardians of the freakin' Galaxy or others) prior to the start of the MCU. They were B to D level heroes that Marvel had to use since they sold off their heavy hitters. And they nailed the execution.Quote:
Agree with you on Marvel but I think the other aspect to that is that the Avengers storyline also leaned on anchor pole characters. Once you exhausted the main arc for those characters you are left with the B to D level heroes that far fewer people know or have interest in.
So, obscure characters is no excuse based on Marvell's history. It's more poor implementation and superhero fatigue.
Yep, this was me.Urban Ag said:
My two cents on the challenges Disney is facing with both properties.
Disney absolutely caught lightening in a bottle with the Avengers/Infinity War series of films. I don't think this can be replicated. The guys that put this together were genius. Let me put it another way. Disney got the Gen X dad demographic to go all in on a super hero franchise. I can't tell you how many dads ended up seeing Iron Man on tv on a lazy Sunday afternoon and said "wow, this is pretty good". I saw bits of pieces of several of the first round of MCU's on tv or on DVD's we would get for the kids for road trips. I took my kid and his friend to The Avengers in the theatre when he was six and honestly had the time of my life. It then turned in to a family event right on thru End Game. Even my wife got in to it.
Then Tony died and my interest completely cratered. Honestly, it's not the woke stuff. The story just ended for the Gen X dads (and many moms). I don't do super heroes and comic books. But I did for that. Because it was that good. I don't know how Disney gets those viewers and their money back.
For Star Wars, outside of Rogue One and Andor the product has just sucked. Literally that simple. They killed the nostalgia factor for Gen X and failed to come even close to re-creating the cultural phenom that Lucas did with the OT. It's just a mediocre to outright bad product. Not a hot take. Even Andor, which was a high quality product, didn't get that much fanfare. And by the time it came out, my friends that grew up SW nerds were so fatigued no one seemed to even bother giving it a try.
I loved the first Superman movie, Superman II was great at the time of release but didn't withstand the test of time. The original Batman movie was awesome, I disliked for the most part the sequels with increasing fervor. So by the time that movies like the original X-Men came out, I punted on even seeing them. I did see the first Spider-Man trilogy and the original Hulk movie, but none of those really wowed me. I had definite comic book movie fatigue so bad that it was literally the last day that Batman Begins was showing here in Houston that I decided to go see it. I was glad I did as well as the two sequels to that one.
But Iron Man? Meh. It was still fatigue over these kind of movies that kept me away from the theater for that one.
Then my neighbor brought the DVD over one evening. The movie blew me away. When Iron Man 2 came out, I was on the fence but the quality of the first one spurred me to see it theatrically. Thor was fun. Captain America the First Avenger was probably going to have been a movie I would have seen regardless given my familiarity with the character, its WWII setting, and that one line digging at Indiana Jones (digging for trinkets in the desert). That was likely the movie that really hooked me into the MCU. The Avengers a year later sealed the deal, especially with the reveal of Thanos at the end.
By the time End Game came out, I was so ready for the payoff, and boy did it pay off so spectacularly. But I recognized that I was feeling exhausted over all those years of watching mostly good to great movies in that series. I had doubts that Marvel would be able to continue at such a high level, and successive movies proved that to be the case. I have still gone to see them in the theater but I notice that I have only seen a couple of them more than once (including watching on streaming once it has left the theater. Heck, I've even bought a couple of them but not bothered to watch them yet).
I think it's revisionist wrt those character's origins. But there's no denying that they were tent pole characters pretty early on. I think they did a bad job trying to establish new characters as tent pole characters with the new phases. Part of that had to do with Boseman's death, I'm sure. But I am still very confused why they haven't had Simu Liu show up really at all.double aught said:I think there's a little revisionist history here. No one was interested in the Avengers (much less Guardians of the freakin' Galaxy or others) prior to the start of the MCU. They were B to D level heroes that Marvel had to use since they sold off their heavy hitters. And they nailed the execution.Quote:
Agree with you on Marvel but I think the other aspect to that is that the Avengers storyline also leaned on anchor pole characters. Once you exhausted the main arc for those characters you are left with the B to D level heroes that far fewer people know or have interest in.
So obscure characters is no excuse based on Marvell's history. It's more poor implementation and superhero fatigue.
It seems like they planned for a long, convoluted storyline to the next big Marvel story and completely miscalculated that audiences don't want to go back to square one. They want to build on what was already shown.
I can relate. My sons, now 17 and 14, organically gravitated to OT Star Wars, a little to the prequels, and got in to the Lego SW and the Clone Wars, for a bit. Disney era SW I think they humored me for awhile and they have not even watched anything on D+, don't give a sh**, and only saw everything sans R1 in the theatre because my wife and I made them go with the fam.dreyOO said:My 11 year old daughter was a baby Yoda super fan. Shirts, posters, hats, backpacks, probably has 10 dolls. To the point of traveling through the airport with her Baby Yoda in her arms a few years ago.Gap said:
Since we are on Disney+ series topics, I have yet to watch Mandalorian Season 3 as it didn't hear good things about it. Is it worth watching and sticking with or should I just end it after the two seasons that I've watched?
We're 3 episodes through Season three and it's been painful to get motivated for more. Totally lost steam and I think she only watches them now for me as a bonding event.
Youngs just ain't buying it.
Not being a comic book guy I had never even heard of Guardians. I have not seen the third because as noted earlier, I'm just out.double aught said:I think there's a little revisionist history here. No one was interested in the Avengers (much less Guardians of the freakin' Galaxy or others) prior to the start of the MCU. They were B to D level heroes that Marvel had to use since they sold off their heavy hitters. And they nailed the execution.Quote:
Agree with you on Marvel but I think the other aspect to that is that the Avengers storyline also leaned on anchor pole characters. Once you exhausted the main arc for those characters you are left with the B to D level heroes that far fewer people know or have interest in.
So obscure characters is no excuse based on Marvell's history. It's more poor implementation and superhero fatigue.
But Guardians 1 & 2, IMO, are two of the strongest showings of the whole MCU. Fantastic cinema. Love them both. And Gunn made both these movies with the soundtracks.
TCTTS said:
After Endgame they should have moved directly into setting up the X-Men reboot. It was the perfect time. Instead, spending an entire phase of every character essentially sulking in the fallout from the blip, with no new central villain to setup, will go down as one of the most bone-headed franchise moves ever.
I'm also in agreement that Fantastic Four is a lame duck. I'm sorry, but no one outside of core comic book fans gives a sh*t about those characters at this point. Maybe if they set the first one in the '60s or something, and it pops as something unique and different, then have them go off to space and rejoin in present day for later movies. Something along those lines.
Otherwise, waiting until 2026 to reintroduce the X-Men feels like such a needless stall.
Completely negligent and baffling. Almost as bad as my use of the term "anchor pole"---> WTF?
I also think the multi-verse angle is simply too much to process. The MCU has already adopted the comic book strategy of having to read Issue #503 from Thor, Issue #653 from Spider-Woman, Issue #23 from Groo The Wanderer, and Issue #1 from West Coast Avengers in order to understand what was happening in Issue #358 of Avengers. You can maybe pull that off if there is a strong over-arching plot line but that ended with End Game.
And now on top of not having an over-arching plot line you throw in the multi-verse and time travel...at the same time. I don't have the time or passion to keep up with something that has no connective tissue beyond everyone sulking about the prior story arc.
And now that I say that we've entered Star Wars Sequel Trilogy territory with the lack of a connected plot, have we not?
I agree I think you lose a lot of casual people with the multiverse. It's rarely well done and usually confusing or poorly explained.
Formerly tv1113
I haven't read too many reviews, but I wonder how many people were turned off by taking a hero from the Avengers and turning her into a ruthless killer in Dr Strange.
I also can't believe they didn't try to get Shang Chi going more. Iron man and Thor had 2 movies before the Avengers, allowing audiences to get to know and be invested in them. Most people probably have forgotten about Shang Chi.
I also can't believe they didn't try to get Shang Chi going more. Iron man and Thor had 2 movies before the Avengers, allowing audiences to get to know and be invested in them. Most people probably have forgotten about Shang Chi.
Madmarttigan said:
I agree I think you lose a lot of casual people with the multiverse. It's rarely well done and usually confusing or poorly explained.
Yeah I think the multiverse dilutes the importance. Who cares about earth 6673 if there are countless others? Extend that to superheroes and who cares if Peter Parker 696969 dies if Spider-Man 3876 can save that world?
redline248 said:
I haven't read too many reviews, but I wonder how many people were turned off by taking a hero from the Avengers and turning her into a ruthless killer in Dr Strange.
I also can't believe they didn't try to get Shang Chi going more. Iron man and Thor had 2 movies before the Avengers, allowing audiences to get to know and be invested in them. Most people probably have forgotten about Shang Chi.
I liked Shang Chi aside from the CGI fest part of it. He was a fun character.
There lies the problem. I don't have a clue what Shang Chi is and don't care. I knew who the Hulk, Iron Man, Thor, and Capt America were simply because I grew up in this country. No different than knowing who Darth Vade and Luke Skywalker are even if you didn't give a sh** about SW.redline248 said:
I haven't read too many reviews, but I wonder how many people were turned off by taking a hero from the Avengers and turning her into a ruthless killer in Dr Strange.
I also can't believe they didn't try to get Shang Chi going more. Iron man and Thor had 2 movies before the Avengers, allowing audiences to get to know and be invested in them. Most people probably have forgotten about Shang Chi.
With the MCU, they casted iconic American comic characters perfectly and somehow put the very best writers, directors, and producers in charge. And they absolutely nailed it. Again, I'm not complaining that they can't continue the success of that. I don't think anyone could.
I watched half of Dr Stange 2 on a flight, fell asleep, and never finished it. So I don't really have an opinion there.redline248 said:
I haven't read too many reviews, but I wonder how many people were turned off by taking a hero from the Avengers and turning her into a ruthless killer in Dr Strange.
I also can't believe they didn't try to get Shang Chi going more. Iron man and Thor had 2 movies before the Avengers, allowing audiences to get to know and be invested in them. Most people probably have forgotten about Shang Chi.
What I did take offense to was Tika turning Thor/Hemsworth from a somewhat boring eye candy for the moms to an absolute gem of a character to finish out the Avengers/Infinity War series, then turning him in to a simp. That sucked.
I'm still hopeful for Marvel to get its **** together. The first phase of the MCU outside of Iron Man is rather weak, comparative to the next two phases. A lot of either bad movies or ok ones. Avengers was the turning point where we could see the future.
Shang Chi is kind of like Thor 1 or Captain America 1 for me. A solid movie that gets a little boring at then end due to a big CGI climax.
My two main issues with the current phase is that the closest one to Iron man's success (Spider-Man 3), does the opposite of setting up the future of the MCU. It implies his story is going to become more insular rather than the leader of the Avengers. The second is the fate of Kang with the Jonathan Majors stuff.
Disney should take a breath, destroy the bubble room until they learn again that people don't want an entire movie made up of CGI, and then come up with practical world/character-building stories with this new slate of heroes. Using less CGI should help alleviate the issues with their VFX department we all keep hearing about.
SW should nuke everything but Andor from orbit and start over. Get away completely from anything close to a skywalker or Palpatine story for the next 20 years. The second one will never happen, and I know Andor is exactly that.
Shang Chi is kind of like Thor 1 or Captain America 1 for me. A solid movie that gets a little boring at then end due to a big CGI climax.
My two main issues with the current phase is that the closest one to Iron man's success (Spider-Man 3), does the opposite of setting up the future of the MCU. It implies his story is going to become more insular rather than the leader of the Avengers. The second is the fate of Kang with the Jonathan Majors stuff.
Disney should take a breath, destroy the bubble room until they learn again that people don't want an entire movie made up of CGI, and then come up with practical world/character-building stories with this new slate of heroes. Using less CGI should help alleviate the issues with their VFX department we all keep hearing about.
SW should nuke everything but Andor from orbit and start over. Get away completely from anything close to a skywalker or Palpatine story for the next 20 years. The second one will never happen, and I know Andor is exactly that.
On Star War, they should probably just make KOTOR a movie and go from there. Built in script and it has nothing to do with anything currently.
Boom. Reset.
Boom. Reset.
That's just code talk for "our shows on Disney+ sucked more than we thought they would."
YouBet said:
On Star War, they should probably just make KOTOR a movie and go from there. Built in script and it has nothing to do with anything currently.
Boom. Reset.
I'd watch this!
Every time someone brings up KOTOR I want to grab the nearest pitchfork and march! Give us KOTOR!YouBet said:
On Star War, they should probably just make KOTOR a movie and go from there. Built in script and it has nothing to do with anything currently.
Boom. Reset.
Outside of KOTOR, I would enjoy a Star War before the Sith Rule of 2 was invented. I would like a show where we see the fall of the Sith's in charge of the Galaxy, with them treating the Jedi as these obscure zealot weirdo's that don't get a long with anyone because of their traditions.
Cromagnum said:
That's just code talk for "our shows on Disney+ sucked more than we thought they would."
I think the energy, effort, and storylines flowing in to the Disney+ shows also impacts the movies.
Are y'all acting like you didn't like The Force Awakens? Seems like everybody loved it when it came out. I think it is excellent.
Clearly, you weren't on these boards in December 2015.
Only knock I remember is that is felt a bit like a remake of A New Hope, which is fair, but its still a really good movie.
1876er said:
Are y'all acting like you didn't like The Force Awakens? Seems like everybody loved it when it came out. I think it is excellent.
I think in hindsight it doesn't hold up as well. It was huge at the time because it was Star Wars 7 and it scratched an itch. And because it kicked off a trilogy with no overarching plot...it makes it worse after the fact.
Still hits some nostalgia feels but of any of the Star Wars movies made after the prequels, I find myself really only watching R1 although I think Solo is better than credited.
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