Whether or not it's true, my thought was always that Paul knew the prophecy and was just waiting for Chani to show up and do her part. Then he wakes himself up

HER LOVE BROKE THE SPELL

Why did Trinity's kiss revive Neo?

Because, as we learned in the second movie, the machines were behind "the one" all along. Same as the Bene Gesserit. It was all a form of control.

Precisely.

A trope that is scientifically implausible, but dramatically effective (lit). Works on me every single time. SMH.

Quad Dog said:

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Glad it helps because I made up the back half. But yes, as far as we know in books and movies there is nothing special about Chani biologically. Although in the books she is Liet-Kynes', the imperial ecologists, daughter. That character was gender swapped in the movie and connection to Chani lost. So in the books Chani is half Fremen, half off-worlder, but it's not discussed as a benefit or drawback that I remember.

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Another point to note in the book Chani is not apart of the prophecy, that is specific to the movie to enrich the plot point.

Quad Dog said:

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PatAg said:

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Whether or not it's true, my thought was always that Paul knew the prophecy and was just waiting for Chani to show up and do her part. Then he wakes himself up

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That's an interesting idea. Paul was faking near death to get Chani to fulfill the prophecy.

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Thinking about it more, that could have been a great thing to show on screen. Paul using Chani to fulfill the prophecy. She finds out and they argue, leading to her leaving at the end. But it would have left a lot to resolve in the next movie.

Quad Dog said:

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Quad Dog said:

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PatAg said:

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Whether or not it's true, my thought was always that Paul knew the prophecy and was just waiting for Chani to show up and do her part. Then he wakes himself up

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That's an interesting idea. Paul was faking near death to get Chani to fulfill the prophecy.

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Thinking about it more, that could have been a great thing to show on screen. Paul using Chani to fulfill the prophecy. She finds out and they argue, leading to her leaving at the end. But it would have left a lot to resolve in the next movie.

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Alia told him to do it. Chani eventually realizes she is the villian here and gets back with Paul, duh

Again… there's no drama/friction there. I'm sorry, but that's just not a good ending.

Someone had to be the moral guide/voice of the audience, and it made perfect sense for Chani to be just that. If she simply stands by her man, so to speak, it sends the wrong message thematically, in that there wouldn't be a single character voicing the entire point of the story, which is obviously a warning against messiah figures used to control, oppress, start holy wars, etc.

As I understand it, the whole reason Herbet wrote Messiah is because people didn't get the message/"moral of the story" the first go around, so he felt he had to unambiguously underline it with a second book. Villeneuve, however, had the benefit of hindsight, and did exactly what Herbert very likely wishes he would have done initially.

I also wouldn't call Chani "stronger" in the book version. Rather, standing for/honoring her own beliefs, in wanting her fellow Freman to be truly free (i.e. not under the control of a Bene Gesserit-born messiah), in the face of an impending holy war, is about as strong as one can be.

Without that, in terms of character, what we even be looking forward to going into a third movie? Had Villeneuve followed the book's ending, I would have zero rooting interest in watching the continuing stories of Paul, Chani, and Irulan. Now? I can't wait to see Paul and Chani meet again, what that friction/drama is going to be like, and how their stories end.

I hear you, but that's also why I said "in terms of character." Everything you're naming is intriguing, but it's all plot, not character. Those are just pieces on a chess board lacking an emotional core, lacking that sizzle/friction/thematic dynamic between two characters whom we're highly invested in, which is what ultimately makes stories truly sing and resonate.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Let me preface that I get what you are saying, but there is tons of conflict set up for movie three without Paul / Chani. You have the Bene Gesserit who obviously think they can control Paul like they have been controlling emperors for thousands of years, you have the conflict of the great houses fighting his control, you have the dynamic of "does Paul go full crusading genocider" like he forsees, you have the Fremen who are now empowered to exact revenge on their oppressors, etc.

The Chani / Irulan / Paul triangle is a classic movie trope though, and for good reason. I think it's good they started setting up dominoes in this movie.

One thing I wish they would have highlighted more in the films is how crucial the spice trade is to the empire. It's not just a recreational drug, it's required for their space travel. The entire empire falls apart without it. Paul is seizing the entire empire by the balls by controlling Arrakis. Thats why they just can't nuke the planet from orbit.

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Also, the geriatric spice keeps people young... I think the Emperor is like 84 years old, but is described to be in his prime and look like Leto I; a younger middle aged man (40-45 years old)

What everyone keeps forgetting is there is a line in the movie after Paul wakes up, he tells Jessica that Chani will come around or come to understand because he has seen it. Therefore, even though she leaves at the end, we know it will circle back to where she is back together with him as it is written in the book.

Bingo.

And to me, the drama of how they get back together, and what that relationship then looks like, is so much better than them already being together when the third movie starts.

Yep. Should be a much more dramatic, interesting watch to see it all unfold.

I'm curious with what they'll do time wise. Messiah is set like 12 years after the first movie.

The holy war has pretty much wrapped up. I dont see them leaving that out. Since DV said he's only planning on doing the 3 movies, I could see them leaving out the kids so they dont have to kill Chani in childbirth. Dont want to piss of people by killing off Zendaya

Whether it's the streets of Gotham or the sand dunes of Arrakis, Greig Fraser knows how to capture the moment.

DUNE: PART TWO
THE BATMAN pic.twitter.com/TsU8uW0bnB

— The Batman Film News 🦇 (@TheBatmanFilm_) March 8, 2024

Villeneuve fanboification? Seriously?

Show your work.

Point out the parts that are untrue.

If you're going to call me out, do so with some actual substance.

Also, you realize my initial reaction to this movie was one of the most tepid in this thread, right?

You are just the tepidest.

SpreadsheetAg said:

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maca1028 said:

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Saw it this afternoon, what a blast that was! Most fun I've had in the theater in a while. Definitely need to see it again, feels like I missed a few things. Now, read Messiah or no? It's gonna be a long wait until part 3.

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if you have read Dune; then I wholeheartedly encourage you to read Messiah.

I wouldn't recommend reading Messiah after only watching the movie.

Advised this path to a friend and he thanked me profusely.

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I read book one shortly after part 1 came out.