Awful interpretation of both that novel and its admirers.Cliff.Booth said:
Joker had what I call the Catcher in the Rye Effect, which is where there is a protagonist who is a ****ing loser but IRL losers lionize him into a folk hero. It was a clarion call for dudes who got bullied in school and can't get laid and might be on the spectrum and want everyone to know they are a lil wacky and hateful.
*** JOKER: FOLIE A DEUX ***
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Last: 8 days ago by jokershady
When was the last time you watched The King of Comedy or Taxi Driver? Even critics who liked Joker said it primarily worked as homage to those films and to the era of film making that they came out of.Quote:
I do not get the "unoriginal" or "cliched" takes at all personally, but respect that everyone's diff.
Exactly.
There is like a 99% chance angsty but rich kid Holden grows up to be a hedge fund manager, meanwhile Cliff Booth ends up as a wife killing gofer for a D-list actor.
For the record, I thought The Joker was genius in the same way Twist and Shout by The Beatles is genius. Sure its not original but the nuance that makes it consumable to the masses makes it a classic.
DustysLineup said:When was the last time you watched The King of Comedy or Taxi Driver? Even critics who liked Joker said it primarily worked as homage to those films and to the era of film making that they came out of.Quote:
I do not get the "unoriginal" or "cliched" takes at all personally, but respect that everyone's diff.
Omg a modern film that has some similarities or parallels to a movie almost 50 years old. By that logic, "The Town" must be utter crap because it is basically "Heat" set in Boston but with a bunch of poor, half literate meatheads. And both movies are still awesome in their own right.
Haven't seen King of Comedy. But Taxi Driver and Joker are both really good movies to me, that I have seen multiple times in recent years, and I only catch a few similarities.
It did pay homage to those eras in a brilliant way though. Captures grimy sleazy 1970's NYC in genius fashion. Nothing felt inauthentic.
Great film.
DustysLineup said:When was the last time you watched The King of Comedy or Taxi Driver? Even critics who liked Joker said it primarily worked as homage to those films and to the era of film making that they came out of.Quote:
I do not get the "unoriginal" or "cliched" takes at all personally, but respect that everyone's diff.
Sure, but the same applies to Star Wars, and many other classics.
Better question is, did it do it well? Answer is definitely yes.
If you want to see bland, uninspired comic book films, just look at most of Marvel's phase 5.
Great minds...
You should watch it.Quote:
Haven't seen King of Comedy.
Joker falls directly into my over 40 (and now 50) list of "I got enough problems of my own without some other guy face his demons" category of movies. I did like Gaga in A Star is Born though, maybe she'll make it more interesting.
I honestly don't understand the "it's just a movie about a dumb loser" sentiment. Unless maybe you just watched the first half of the movie or so. He is a much different person at the end of the movie than the beginning.
He is clearly completely crippled by a horrific upbringing and all the baggage that comes with it, mentall illness, and being on SEVEN different drugs. He hasn't had an ounce of happiness or confidence his entire life...much less any taste of power, control or influence. He's a messed up 40-something year old man who lives with his crazy mom (who we later find out is not his mother) and bathes her. He was abused and neglected in ways none of us can imagine. And yes, he can't spell for sh**....OK, I guess he is dumb in many ways, fair point.
But as the haze is lifted (partly by stopping his meds cold turkey I assume) and he begins feeling joy and pleasure for the first time by acting out and enacting psychopathic revenge on the "cruel" world, he starts becoming smarter and more calculated. He's still a pretty clumsy criminal, with a lot to learn, but you can see him trending towards the Joker we are all more familiar with as the movie goes on. He feeds off notoriety and finally being noticed for the first time in his life. His violence has started an antifa/occupy-wallstreet like movement.
I am expecting him to achieve "diabolical genius" status in the second one, personally. If done correctly, I think it might help many people view the first one in a better light in hindsight.
Regardless, I hope we can all agree that he is much more unique and nuanced than this one...
He is clearly completely crippled by a horrific upbringing and all the baggage that comes with it, mentall illness, and being on SEVEN different drugs. He hasn't had an ounce of happiness or confidence his entire life...much less any taste of power, control or influence. He's a messed up 40-something year old man who lives with his crazy mom (who we later find out is not his mother) and bathes her. He was abused and neglected in ways none of us can imagine. And yes, he can't spell for sh**....OK, I guess he is dumb in many ways, fair point.
But as the haze is lifted (partly by stopping his meds cold turkey I assume) and he begins feeling joy and pleasure for the first time by acting out and enacting psychopathic revenge on the "cruel" world, he starts becoming smarter and more calculated. He's still a pretty clumsy criminal, with a lot to learn, but you can see him trending towards the Joker we are all more familiar with as the movie goes on. He feeds off notoriety and finally being noticed for the first time in his life. His violence has started an antifa/occupy-wallstreet like movement.
I am expecting him to achieve "diabolical genius" status in the second one, personally. If done correctly, I think it might help many people view the first one in a better light in hindsight.
Regardless, I hope we can all agree that he is much more unique and nuanced than this one...
I WILL FIGHT YOU!!! YOU BLASPHEMER!!!!El Gallo Blanco said:
Regardless, I hope we can all agree that he is much more unique and nuanced than this one...
Warner Bros usually releases their trailers in the morning, but considering their CinemaCon panel isn't until 4 PM Vegas/Pacific time on Tuesday, they'll probably wait until around then to drop it online, either as or just after it premieres for the audience there.
Trailer Tonight. 6:30pm PT. #JokerMovie pic.twitter.com/kKbceDG0Qb
— Warner Bros. Pictures (@wbpictures) April 9, 2024
Going to be really awkward when she hits the big time, becomes a bigger star than he ever was, and he "commits suicide" by fighting batman.
Would be awesome if this movie is secretly a musical
I thought that was already confirmed.
it kind of is.... supposed to be jukebox musical.Another Doug said:
Would be awesome if this movie is secretly a musical
They've said it's not a musical in the traditional sense, but there are apparently multiple musical numbers - rumored up to 15 - that are all "jukebox" style covers.
So I can't tell if they're stuck in Arkham most of the movie, and most scenes outside of Arkham are, like, whimsical, escapist dreams? Or maybe they do actually get out and wreak havoc, which is what I'm hoping...
Either way, I think this one looks FAR more interesting and original than the first.
Either way, I think this one looks FAR more interesting and original than the first.
The shot of them doing the exact same leg kick on the staircase from the first movie is a little cringe / on-the-nose for me.
Love the last shot though. And I'm all in for this being a musical.
Love the last shot though. And I'm all in for this being a musical.
Also, this will be another huge hit. Maybe not $1B, but I see this doing at least $800M.
Yeah, between this (in October) and Beetlejuice Beetlejuice (in September), Warner Bros is going to have a massive fall season. And that's after they've already dominated this spring with Dune: Part Two and Godzilla x Kong.
I had to read that three times to figure out you didn't mean it in a bad way.TCTTS said:
Warner Bros is going to have a massive fall.
Ha, just changed it for clarity.
Surprised JOKER 2 wasn’t called HA HA LAND.
— Dan Marcus (@Danimalish) April 10, 2024
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Love the last shot though. And I'm all in for this being a musical.
The last shot with the red lipstick into a smile is fantastic
I wonder how many takes it took to get right, or what tricks they potentially used to help him land it.
So cool either way.
So cool either way.
Oh wow I forgot Beetlejuice was WB. Yeah between that, Dune, and this, they're gonna have a hell of a year.
Dear studio.
Here is money. Please take it.
Thanks.
Here is money. Please take it.
Thanks.
I mean... it looks interesting. I thought lady gaga did great in A Star is Born, so will look forward to seeing her in this. I'll hold my judgements until I see it, but this entire iteration of the Joker being so different from any story we've ever had, and in a world without Batman is something I still don't necessarily celebrate.
Also, I've always loved the backstory of Harley Quinn. As someone who grew up with the Animated Series (let's be honest, I'd still watch that **** today as a 36yo), Harley Quinn's story of being a Psychiatrist at Arkham who falls in love with the Joker and slowly is dragged into her "crazy" by the Joker is something I really would have preferred to see. This trailer makes it seem like she's just a fellow patient, but maybe we just aren't seeing something.
Guess I'm just not the biggest fan of this retcon.
Also, I've always loved the backstory of Harley Quinn. As someone who grew up with the Animated Series (let's be honest, I'd still watch that **** today as a 36yo), Harley Quinn's story of being a Psychiatrist at Arkham who falls in love with the Joker and slowly is dragged into her "crazy" by the Joker is something I really would have preferred to see. This trailer makes it seem like she's just a fellow patient, but maybe we just aren't seeing something.
Guess I'm just not the biggest fan of this retcon.
TCTTS said:
I wonder how many takes it took to get right, or what tricks they potentially used to help him land it.
So cool either way.
Simplest solution, which I’m willing to bet they did, is that they put a monitor of the cam right at Phoenix’s eye line - to the right of Gaga behind the glass.
— andrew hegele (@westernwilder) April 10, 2024
Problem solved. Gold every take. https://t.co/2q4w52fY5S pic.twitter.com/gSCkddXr7l
agree completely
also, what's the point of all this.
as others mentioned, this is dark AF
so is there an underlying moral play which redeems it?
or is it just two hours of dark nihilism fantasy of burning everything down?
no thanks. life is too short.
also, what's the point of all this.
as others mentioned, this is dark AF
so is there an underlying moral play which redeems it?
or is it just two hours of dark nihilism fantasy of burning everything down?
no thanks. life is too short.
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