Howdy, it is me! said:AGC said:Howdy, it is me! said:dermdoc said:No, not at all. I pray for Lawson daily. I, personally, could never be publically preaching hellfire and brimstone (of course since I do not believe in ECT hell I would never preach that anyway) while committing adultery. But that is just me.Howdy, it is me! said:dermdoc said:Agree. Reformed/Calvinist theology is just so foreign to the theology I was raised on. It is almost like a completely different God than I was taught about and worshipped. And that I have a personal relationship with.10andBOUNCE said:I am sorry to break it to you, but every single Christian sect will have preconceived notions that they will try to fit things into their theological narratives. With that being said, we should all be on guard against that and help each other point those things out.dermdoc said:It seems so obvious that they have a pre conceived theology and then twist Scripture to fit their theology.10andBOUNCE said:I don't think it is adding words, it is simply an interpretation of scripture that some affirm and others do not.dermdoc said:And as we have discussed numerous times before, this directly contradicts Scripture that clearly states God desires all mankind to be saved.10andBOUNCE said:Quote:
A breath of relief is usually heard when someone declares, "Hell is a symbol for separation from God." To be separated from God for eternity is no great threat to the impenitent person. The ungodly want nothing more than to be separated from God. Their problem in hell will not be separation from God, it will be the presence of God that will torment them. In hell, God will be present in the fullness of His divine wrath. He will be there to exercise His just punishment of the damned. They will know Him as an all-consuming fire.https://learn.ligonier.org/articles/hellQuote:
God is incapable of inflicting an unjust punishment. The Judge of all the earth will surely do what is right. No innocent person will ever suffer at His hand.
Sorry but it really gets frustrating when Scripture has words added to fit a theology.
Much harsher and full of wrath. And Reformed/Calvinist pastors and theologians reflect that as shown by Washer, Lawson, etc. speaking's on "hell" and eternal punishment.
I still can't believe Calvin wrote 1500 pages about theology and never used the word love.
And nothing is going to change my mind so I should just ignore that theology and its proponents because it makes me mad at other believers.
I agree, I do think you need to stop reading these people you disagree with because it's giving you a bad taste for your brother and sisters whose beliefs fall within reformed doctrine.
Lawson was deep in sin and is now taking steps to repent and step away from that sin. We should be glad for that and pray his repentance is true. You almost sound like you hope he is not sincere because he believes something about hell that you disagree with.
Did he not understand that if the hell he believes in is true that he has the possibility to end up there also?
It just seems like there is such a disconnect between infernalists and reality. If ECT hell is a reality and I believed that, I would spend 24/7 preaching that. And do nothing else as that would have to be the most important thing in life.
But Jesus did not do that. Paul did not do that. None of the apostles did that. Why not? Shouldn't preaching mirror their sermons and teachings? There are zero NT sermons that are anything like these hellfire and brimstone guys.
It is like infernalists say they believe in ECT hell, but their actions do not reflect that belief.
And I would be very curious to go back through the years and see what Lawson preached on adultery, sin, and hell. And if shudder to think of children being exposed to this.
Or what he advised if he did any marriage counseling. Or what he advised for church discipline for adulterers. While he was doing the deed himself.
And curious, Piper has stated that when people "fall away" then they never were of the "elect"anyway. So was Lawson a fake the whole time?
I will admit that I am very confused.
And I am very happy to forgive Lawson or anyone. I wonder how he would treat me if I was an adulterer? He sure has harsh words in his messages.
I will say that it is fascinating as a non ECT guy that the ECT hellfire and brimstone guys are the ones who have the hardest time keeping their zipper up.
Rules for thee, not for me.
Just because someone sins does not mean he has "fallen away"; that's talking about people who suddenly say they no longer believe in God. We all sin, even you. I'm sure you've "preached" out of one side of your mouth while speaking the very thing you preached agaisnt out of the other, we all have.
Only God truly knows our heart and the best we can do is take Lawson at his word - that's he's grieving his sin and truly repentant.
Eh, having an affair over several years and lying about it and running away isn't exactly, 'we all sin.' Especially while pretending to be something he's not: a shepherd of souls (I say this because I've seen reports on his membership status and involvement at that church, and podcasting/broadcasting/teaching publicly alone doesn't make you a shepherd) . Barth changed his preaching (by his own admission) after his mistress moved into his home with his family, why expect unchanged theology here? The burden of sin is always heavier on the shoulders of people who are supposed to be leaders and rightfully so.
Surely he's held responsible for what he's done to his family and any that leave whatever faith they have in Christ and the church after watching this play out.
His marriage and family may not yet be saved. Sometimes it takes years. My experience is that repentance does not take the form of a spiritual journey you're on, broadcast to those around you while doing it. It's humility, more often than not in anonymity, and constant acknowledgement and confession, accepting the consequences of your sin while working to reconcile them. I have family members and close friends that have experienced this, so that's where I come from.
All sin separates us from God, whether it's habitual or momentary. Obviously his sin was egregious and he'll be experiencing the consequences of it for the remainder of his life.
I agree it'll likely take years for him and his family to heal, if they do. As for anonymity, he's made one statement and then said he would make no more. Honestly, since he's such in the public eye, he's in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" sort of situation in the court of public opinion.
It is better for some to have millstones tied around their necks…other sins are abominations. Not all sin is equal, even if it all takes us towards non-existence. Of course we can't conflate righteousness with sinlessness, because that's not what it is and we have David's example.
That said he's not damned if he does. To admit fault, resign from all ministry, and shutter shutter them to lead a quiet life at home is not something I think anyone would condemn.