lslam in Texas, please read.

20,781 Views | 452 Replies | Last: 19 hrs ago by Aggrad08
94chem
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AGC said:

94chem said:

RAB91 said:

Sapper Redux said:

There's around 400,000 Muslims in Texas. Thats maybe 1% of the population. The xenophobia is just a touch ridiculous.

Islam is not compatible with the Western culture. HTH.


Following Christ isn't compatible with ANY culture. If you believe differently, you aren't a Christian.


Christian's don't have their own culture?

I'll show myself out.


Silly goose.
Aggie__11
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Muslim Afghani who was given asylum in this country just ambushed 2 Ng soldiers in DC , as I was saying…..
Aggie__11
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Sapper Redux said:

Aggie__11 said:

Sapper Redux said:

stallion6 said:

Sapper Redux said:

RAB91 said:

Sapper Redux said:

There's around 400,000 Muslims in Texas. Thats maybe 1% of the population. The xenophobia is just a touch ridiculous.

Islam is not compatible with the Western culture. HTH.


There are plenty of Muslims who get along just fine in the west. Islamic fundamentalism is a very recent phenomenon from the last 40-50 years.

You have obviously never served in the military or deployed in a combat zone with Muslims. Sharia law is not comparable with western culture. People like you will be the down fall of our society. You are easily fooled.


I spent 29 months in Iraq. I'm far better acquainted with actual Muslims than the vast majority of right wing keyboard warriors.


This makes you some type of expert ? Sure thing bud


How many neighborhood and district advisory meetings did you attend? How many imams did you talk to? How many doctors and NGOs? How many contractors and workers? How many interpreters and their families? How many captured terrorists and their families did you interrogate? Don't presume to tell me what I did and didn't do in 29 months of ground level combat. I have far more experience with Islam than the keyboard warriors screaming about "cultural fit."



Only keyboard warrior here is you, lol so everyone who served in the Middle East is now an expert on Islam sure thing bud
one MEEN Ag
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AG
Do muslims residing in America even celebrate thanksgiving? Or is it like Jews getting Christmas day off and going to eat Chinese food?

Ironically, Sapper is an expert in both religions nowadays so he should be able to provide detailed answers.

Cultural assimilation test happening today.
one MEEN Ag
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AG
Sir I never served overseas but I did read Dune, I believe that makes me qualified to be a CNN correspondent.
RAB91
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Horrible if true, but not surprising....

dermdoc
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AG
RAB91 said:

Horrible if true, but not surprising....




I do not see how anyone can not see the difference between Islam and Christianity.
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Sapper Redux
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one MEEN Ag said:

Do muslims residing in America even celebrate thanksgiving? Or is it like Jews getting Christmas day off and going to eat Chinese food?

Ironically, Sapper is an expert in both religions nowadays so he should be able to provide detailed answers.

Cultural assimilation test happening today.


Snide bull**** aside, Thanksgiving is a national holiday, not a religious one. I'm sure most Muslim families who have been in the country for awhile are enjoying it. Those who don't are probably not familiar with it. Same as with immigrants across the ages in this country.
Zobel
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AG
It's not a religious one? Who are we giving thanks to?

Quote:

By the President of the United States of America, a Proclamation.

Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favor-- and whereas both Houses of Congress have by their joint Committee requested me to recommend to the People of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness.

Now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be-- That we may then all unite in rendering unto him our sincere and humble thanks--for his kind care and protection of the People of this Country previous to their becoming a Nation--for the signal and manifold mercies, and the favorable interpositions of his Providence which we experienced in the course and conclusion of the late war--for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty, which we have since enjoyed--for the peaceable and rational manner, in which we have been enabled to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national One now lately instituted--for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed; and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and in general for all the great and various favors which he hath been pleased to confer upon us.

and also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech him to pardon our national and other transgressions-- to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually--to render our national government a blessing to all the people, by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed--to protect and guide all Sovereigns and Nations (especially such as have shewn kindness unto us) and to bless them with good government, peace, and concord--To promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the encrease of science among them and us--and generally to grant unto all Mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best.
Sapper Redux
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Somehow I knew you'd post that and then claim, "Achtually this is a religious holiday." Never change, Zobel. Lincoln went out of his way to never invoke a specific religion and made his language pretty generic for the mid-19th century. It's a national holiday, not a religious one and has never been only reserved for religious people.
Zobel
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AG
Lincoln didn't invent it
Sapper Redux
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Zobel said:

Lincoln didn't invent it

Lincoln made the Thanksgiving we celebrate a national holiday.
Zobel
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AG
He prayed for your heart to be softened in it, too. To Almighty God and Father, the Most High God.

Quote:

By the President of the United States of America.

A Proclamation.

The year that is drawing towards its close, has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added, which are of so extraordinary a nature, that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God.

In the midst of a civil war of unequalled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to foreign States to invite and to provoke their aggression, peace has been preserved with all nations, order has been maintained, the laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere except in the theatre of military conflict; while that theatre has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union.

Needful diversions of wealth and of strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defence, have not arrested the plough, the shuttle or the ship; the axe has enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines, as well of iron and coal as of the precious metals, have yielded even more abundantly than heretofore. Population has steadily increased, notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege and the battle-field; and the country, rejoicing in the consciousness of augmented strength and vigor, is permitted to expect continuance of years with large increase of freedom.

No human counsel hath devised nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy.

It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and one voice by the whole American People. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next, as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens. And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to Him for such singular deliverances and blessings, they do also, with humble penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience, commend to His tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the Divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquillity and Union.
Aggrad08
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AG
Bemoaning consensus has always seemed utterly silly to me. There is no system of government immune to a sufficient reversal of consensus that's not terribly authoritarian and draconian, and even those can break under the force of insurrection.

Any system of government that can be said to derive power from its people in a meaningful way is subject to change. Defending the status quo therefore always relies upon a constant reinforcement of ideals between the current generation in power and the ones to follow.
Zobel
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AG
Yes. But the assumption that the government derives its authority from its people is part of the same philosophical movement. That's modernism.
dermdoc
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AG
Zobel said:

Yes. But the assumption that the government derives its authority from its people is part of the same philosophical movement. That's modernism.


Moral relativism is not good.
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Aggrad08
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AG
You can't escape the practical truth of it. Gods don't enforce rights. At least I've yet to see them do so.
Zobel
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AG
And yet somehow it doesn't describe any system of government or political philosophy in the ancient or medieval era. Weird.
one MEEN Ag
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AG
This thread is full of atheist secularists who are embracing Islam while Islam would absolutely line you up against the wall and shoot you for not embracing their religion.

Islam will not embrace secularism. It is just another religion to them that has to submit to Islam. Play all the word games you want about 'it can't be religion' like life is some comedian bit.

Idiots bringing about your own demise pointing to the 'non religiousness' of founding father secularism.

You think a bunch of fresh off the boat Muslims give two ****s about thanksgiving? Our anything about America?

Y'all are only going to learn once it's too late.
dermdoc
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AG
one MEEN Ag said:

This thread is full of atheist secularists who are embracing Islam while Islam would absolutely line you up against the wall and shoot you for not embracing their religion.

Islam will not embrace secularism. It is just another religion to them that has to submit to Islam. Play all the word games you want about 'it can't be religion' like life is some comedian bit.

Idiots bringing about your own demise pointing to the 'non religiousness' of founding father secularism.

You think a bunch of fresh off the boat Muslims give two ****s about thanksgiving? Our anything about America?

Y'all are only going to learn once it's too late.



How one can watch the actions of Muslims vs Christianity in recent years and not realize the difference is mind boggling.
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Aggrad08
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AG
If you read above I included a statement for those sufficiently authoritarian or draconian. If you want that by all means advocate for the divine right of kings again. Worked out so well the last times.
dermdoc
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AG
Aggrad08 said:

If you read above I included a statement for those sufficiently authoritarian or draconian. If you want that by all means advocate for the divine right of kings again. Worked out so well the last times.


Would you agree that pertains to Muslim countries?
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Aggrad08
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AG
Yes. I would never want their governments. And is a valid concern that as we look at immigration we also look at assimilation. I know and have met may American Muslims who embrace this and some who do not.
dermdoc
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AG
Aggrad08 said:

Yes. I would never want their governments. And is a valid concern that as we look at immigration we also look at assimilation. I know and have met may American Muslims who embrace this and some who do not.


Agree.
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Zobel
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AG
The opposite of modern and secular is not draconian and authoritarian.
dermdoc
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Zobel said:

The opposite of modern and secular is not draconian and authoritarian.


Actually one might say modern and secular is draconian and authoritarian. Look at liberalism in the Us.
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Zobel
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AG
Yes. And Nazism, fascism, socialism, communism…. All modern and secular. Weird huh?
dermdoc
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AG
Zobel said:

Yes. And Nazism, fascism, socialism, communism…. All modern and secular. Weird huh?


Almost like there are scales on their eyes. The truth shall set you free.
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dermdoc
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AG
Any Christians kill some National Guard folks?
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dermdoc
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AG
Zobel said:

Yes. But the assumption that the government derives its authority from its people is part of the same philosophical movement. That's modernism.

And Scripture is clear that all governments are granted authority by God. The only true freedom comes from faith in Christ.
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Aggrad08
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Unless you have a suggestion for a form of government that gives a non trivial amount of power to its people and is immune to consensus I can't imagine what point you think you are making. Unless you want a government where the people don't hold power which again, has what to do with anything…
Zobel
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AG
you're missing your assumption. denying that "authority comes from the people" doesn't mean people lack authority. no roman, spartan, athenian, theban would have agreed that the authority of their government, or the legitimacy of their laws derived "from the consent of the governed." they derived it from divine law, the gods, the ancestral constitution, their customs and way of life, or the common good as determined by the qualified portion of the citizen body (which itself was derived from the former). none of these reduce to a democratic popular mandate or revolutionary sentiment.

that's why our modern "rights" are just sleight of hand. the founders did not say that rights from from "consensus" or "the people" as a collective act of will. they said - explicitly and repeatedly - that they came from God -this was Self Evident to anyone who practiced Reason, and governments were instituted to secure these rights, deriving their just powers from the consent of the govern. this is conditional because the rights pre-exist the government and come from God, or if you get as deist as possible, from a natural law from the creator that can be derived via reason.

and yet some people don't agree with this today. or, more confusingly, people who don't believe in God at think these same rights are super serious. but no longer because they're Self Evident (how quaint!) but because power is messy and the founders didn't agree so everyone said this is the best we can do. you don't even agree with the founders. this is a mythic framework that is self-defeating and completely unstable. it just means there is no foundation whatever.

secular progressives want to keep the list of rights (speech, religion, whatever) but replace the grounding in a Creator or self-evident natural law (which is NOT subject to change or debate!) with "we all just agree these are good" or "history evolved this way" or "this is the least bad compromise". this turns inalienable rights into a revocable majority preference as soon as consensus shifts.

the flipside to this is people who want to talk about Creator language but act as if the American order is compatible with any metaphysical framing as long as people behave. this is the same error in reverse - pretending rights can float free of their theistic natural law foundation without collapsing.

you treat "power comes from the people and therefore everything comes from consensus" is it is a neutral fact about legitimate governance. that's not correct. that is distinctly a modern, post Hobbes / Locke / Rousseau philosophical commitment. which the founders of the USA only half-bought into - they hedged with divine endowment and self-evident truth specifically to avoid pure voluntarism.

once you sever those foundations you have no barrier (principled or otherwise) against a future consensus that does anything it likes "by the will of the people".

its not that the people need to have a certain amount of power - this is just implying that any government other than democracy is bad, and democracy however functioning is good. the point is that modern democratic faith only looks inevitable if youve swallowed the whole premise that there is no authority higher than the people's will, which itself says there is no authority higher than any person's will.

the older tradition is that there IS a higher authority (the founders still affirmed this!) and that the people's role is to conform to it, not to reinvent it every generation or immigration wave.

without that our "rights and freedoms" are just accidents of history waiting for the next new majority to renegotiate them... which is exactly what we've been watching.
Aggrad08
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AG
I'm not missing my assumptions. You are simply off on a tangent of which I hold no interest and find your arguments utterly uncompelling. I'm speaking of the pragmatic efforts to deny the effect of consensus. I'm not saying democracy is the ideal form of governance. I only think it's the best so far. If you have a better one by all means suggest it. But stop wasting both our times with long winded derails on our lack of shared foundation. I find value in allowing the people a say in their governance. You may or may not share that value. If you do fine. But then suggest how to immunize such a government from the effects of consensus.

"once you sever those foundations you have no barrier (principled or otherwise) against a future consensus that does anything it likes "by the will of the people"

I fundamentally don't think this follows at all. We have not discussed my reasons for wanting a society a certain way nor are they pertinent towards the fundamental point that consensus is required. You are simply arguing for a shared belief system that may help guard against the consensus changing. Not that it fundamentally alters the need for consensus. And so I'll simply repeat what I said from the beginning which appear to still hold true:

" Any system of government that can be said to derive power from its people in a meaningful way is subject to change. Defending the status quo therefore always relies upon a constant reinforcement of ideals between the current generation in power and the ones to follow"

The grounding in a creator is a pretense. A fancy. It has no magical power because gods don't come down and tell us what government they want and what rights we should have. A person can believe in a god and not believe the 2nd amendment is a fundamental right just as easily as someone can dismiss a god and find that right essential.

Sapper Redux
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Quote:

the founders did not say that rights from from "consensus" or "the people" as a collective act of will. they said - explicitly and repeatedly - that they came from God


And yet the supreme law of the United States makes zero mention of God and grounds rights in the consent of the governed and the structures put in place. You want to treat rhetoric as if it is reality when the liberal turn in philosophy began as an explicit rejection of divine will and dictate as sufficient for establishing a polity. They may eventually recognize a God of some sort, but the structure of rights was based in reason and deduction. God was invoked as a sort of final arbiter, but in the sense that reason dictated this was good and what is good must be pleasing to God. The actual involvement of God in these formulations was minimal or nonexistent.
Aggie__11
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Muslim attacks in the west too numerous to list all but yeah they totally fit in Western society's . Ever since why it's Muslims coming to the west and not visa versa? I mean image if 100 Christians went to Medina and stated a Christian church what would happen to them? If Islam and being Muslim is so great why don't they stay in their countries?
 
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