Says the Vatican still objects to rogue Germans

"Leo told reporters on the plane, "The Holy See has already spoken to the German bishops. The Holy See has made it clear that we do not agree with the formalized blessing of homosexual couples or couples in irregular situations, beyond what was specifically allowed by Pope Francis, saying: all people receive blessings"

I'll try to find the video

https://www.lifesitenews.com/analysis/pope-leo-xiv-affirms-informal-blessing-for-homosexual-couples-and-downplays-sexual-sin/?utm_source=FB&fbclid=IwdGRleARYm95leHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEecfq7NQyzXHFghIdTU9X0Y20roMPcn2G1YjMDvN7LJoogIKmhQutfGQ5JAMY_aem_q__sBLqAmlCbs09F5q9oiA

About the 30 second mark

To no one's surprise. The church has only begun to move away from "disordered" to persons having same sex attraction, to informal blessings. Formalizing this into a rite would be much too soon.

In my opinion, the German Catholic Church tends to skip past all the rest of the Catholic world and want to formalize a rite for LGBT Catholics. I will say that they too recognize that this is NOT marriage. That may seem trivial to some, but it is not since Holy Matrimony is a sacrament.

Interesting that Pope Leo is reaffirming the teaching which may be something? We shall see.

It won't ever be marriage because marriage is clearly defined in scripture as between a man and a woman.

In my opinion, there will likely be some path for persons who are same sex attracted and in love with someone that they want to share the rest of their life with and be fully within the life of the church. I don't know what that path looks like, for now it is a blessing.

John 9 is in my opinion the basis for this path. We read how Jesus explains to the apostles that the man born blind neither sinned nor did his parents. His condition was for the glory of God.

I'm not the only person tracking this, scripture has been twisted before as when some interpret sexual violence as the same as a loving same sex relationship.

We live in a time where more people are coming to understand their sexual orientation as a gift instead of a sin. The problem we have is that we have understood human sexuality only through a heterosexual lens.

ETA: I have read the testimony from the USA. Very compelling and an insight that sheds light on where the previous approaches, like conversion therapy fall short. No surprise that Bishop Strickland would object.

PabloSerna said:

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In my opinion, there will likely be some path for persons who are same sex attracted and in love with someone that they want to share the rest of their life with and be fully within the life of the church. I don't know what that path looks like, for now it is a blessing.

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What path do you foresee? Genuinely interested in what you are getting at.

The apostles grappled with a similar situation, as I see it, whether to circumcise new gentile converts or not. The church has a history of refining without losing the essence of revealed truth.

For sure it won't be sacramental. I will elaborate later as my kid has practice and we need to leave. (Dad stop typing!)

PabloSerna said:

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The apostles grappled with a similar situation, as I see it, whether to circumcise new gentile converts or not. The church has a history of refining without losing the essence of revealed truth.

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'As you see it'? What weight does that carry in Christendom?

PabloSerna said:

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The apostles grappled with a similar situation, as I see it, whether to circumcise new gentile converts or not. The church has a history of refining without losing the essence of revealed truth.

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They correctly applied the pre-existing laws regarding gentiles living in Israel to how gentiles would need to live, see Leviticus.

What pre-existing teaching does FS reference about same sex couples?

"People are NOT born gay."

You say a lot, however, everything hinges on this condition. My reflection comes from the understanding based on scripture that they are indeed born this way, hence John 9, holds a key to our understanding.

Because if what we are learning, that same sex attraction is not some gene, but based in love- something immeasurable then we need to turn to God (who is love) for a more pastoral understanding.

As for your concern for my spiritual well being, I appreciate that, however, I am following my Dominican brother in Christ (Aquinas) on this and have no fear of where the Holy Spirit, the author of all truth, is leading me. Again, look around, talk to people, read, study, and pray.

ETA: I have a growing collection of books about human sexuality going back some time. It includes the conditions you have described (conversion therapy). I go back to the "love" question. It is what got me started in the first place.

As I read it, this is an example of the early church grappling with the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. After the confrontation between Peter and Paul regarding gentile converts, some "refinements" were made to place the emphasis on the sacrifice of Christ and not so much on the letter of the law.

I believe the church is in a similar position in this time regarding sexual orientation. As someone posted earlier, there are some who insist this is a choice that can be made- the "pray the gay away" folks.

I don't believe persons who are same sex attracted can change that orientation. Conversion therapy, such as the Catholic apostolate, Courage, attempts to walk down a similar path with devastating consequences. That for now is the pastoral approach. That gay Catholics must suppress their sexuality and live a chaste life to fully participate in the life of the church.

What if there was a way for someone born same sex attracted, to live openly in the life of the church and share their life with another in a way that reflects the glory of God? They will still need to live a chaste life, receive the sacraments, and live out the gospel in everything they do.

The one part I know is the most problematic, is their physical expression of that love. As a heterosexual person I do not understand what that means as I have never felt that way. All of our understanding is based on the two inseparable dimensions of that expression- procreative and unitive. For heterosexual persons, this act can only happen in marriage and without any contraception to attempt to separate those two dimensions of physical love between a man and a woman. I call this the heterosexual lens.

What I have come to understand is that the love between same sex persons in long term committed relationships reflects the unitive dimension as well and in some cases better than other heterosexual marriages I know. Therefore, I have been asking if this is real love? Because if it is, and we know that love comes from God (not some gene)- then we need to make room in the tent for this situation.

What that looks like- I don't know. I have already said, it is not marriage, because we know that scripture is clear on that- one man and one woman. Plus, the time for the establishment of sacraments is over when Christ ascended to heaven. For now it is blessings of individual persons (yes I knew that) not couples - in irregular relationships.

The German Catholic Church has come to the same conclusions and more. They are ready to put a Rite in place and move on. The rest of the Catholic Church is not there and to Captain Pablo's point may retreat or double down on the "pray the gay away" approach. The reason I don't see that happening is because they have adjusted language ever so slightly that indicates that they too are understanding this as not a lifestyle choice, but a real condition.

Anyways- long way of saying that we (RCC) are just getting started. The two year Synod on Synodality (2021-2024) has just wrapped up. That was a listening session. Just recently a testimony from a Catholic was released for the public. The link is posted above, it is worth reading. Even the questions asked are worth reading. The church is asking and seeking. What will come of this? I don't know- I'm actively praying on it.

I know where your question is leading- settled doctrine. This reflection is not about settled doctrine between two persons of the opposite sex. Humane Vitae (c.1968) is a great encyclical on the RCC's inspired teaching that reaches back into scripture and forward into the question of family planning.

It's a fine point, but maybe you can help- what does scripture or the RCC tell us about people who are same sex attracted and wish to live fully in the life of the church in a free and loving relationship?

There are 0 mentions of any positive same-sex relationships in the Bible, any time it is mentioned it is condemned strongly. I've read a few of the books on sexuality and their attempts at rationalizing it, they always fall short.

I have no idea what causes a person to be same-sex attracted. I wish it was simply something we could ignore and brush under the rug but it's not.