Every number that comes out of SLS is comedy

Kenneth_2003 said:

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Premium said:

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MarkTwain said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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MarkTwain said:

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Boeing evidently is furious that NASA has given the rescue mission to SpaceX.

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Amazing... where did you hear that?

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Some Boeing rep was quoted in the NY Post

"We hate SpaceX. We talk sh** about them all the time, and now they're bailing us out."

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"UPSTART" SpaceX? With commercial space launches that is so slanted.

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Looks like the headline incorporated the Boeing employee quote. Sounds to me like Boeing was too busy sitting on their eroding reputation while sniffing their own farts they forgot how to build a spacecraft.

And install a door
And program a Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System
Clean sheet design an new airplane
Weld fuel tanks for launch vehicles
Outfit 747's for Presidential service (that's now delayed an additional 18 months)

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Wonder how much the 747 will end up costing them without the cost plus contract.

I definitely have some schadenfreude watching Boeing implode, but it is sad seeing one of the great American companies crumble in front of our eyes.

Pretty damning on its face. Like trying not to be political in this thread but I don't think you'll see spaceX having such outspoken DEI policies

Decay said:

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Pretty damning on its face. Like trying not to be political in this thread but I don't think you'll see spaceX having such outspoken DEI policies

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Based on Musk's clear stance, SpaceX has ZERO DEI policies.

Not DEI:

Then you will really hate that Tesla scored 100/100 four years in a row on LGBTQ equality https://t.co/AzwWIhpyLW

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) June 26, 2018

Treat everyone the same? But that's not fair!!!

Equity =/= Equality...

Boeing's problems are a cultural issue. There are symptoms all over; DEI, Union, Non-union, labor vs. management, outsourcing. All symptoms of what has to be a deeper underlying cultural issue within the company.

It's sad and tragic. I truly hope for the best for the new CEO.

lb3 said:

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Not DEI:

Then you will really hate that Tesla scored 100/100 four years in a row on LGBTQ equality https://t.co/AzwWIhpyLW

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) June 26, 2018

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A lot has changed since 2018

After a successful ascent, Falcon 9's first stage booster tipped over following touchdown on the A Shortfall of Gravitas droneship. Teams are assessing the booster's flight data and status. This was the booster's 23rd launch.

— SpaceX (@SpaceX) August 28, 2024

SpaceX has indicated they are going to try to optimize their refurbishment process and push the limits of these vehicles. Looks like they may have found one of those hard limits.

When was the last time they've botched a booster recovery? Seems like it's been a while.

will25u said:

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After a successful ascent, Falcon 9's first stage booster tipped over following touchdown on the A Shortfall of Gravitas droneship. Teams are assessing the booster's flight data and status. This was the booster's 23rd launch.

— SpaceX (@SpaceX) August 28, 2024

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I know I'm being overly simplistic here, but looking at the droneship and the center of gravity of the booster, one would think an unexpected rough wave (not necessarily a rogue wave), at just the right time could cause enough instability to cause the booster to tip over.

OKCAg2002 said:

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When was the last time they've botched a booster recovery? Seems like it's been a while.

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Reddit says there were more than 260 successful landings since the last failure.

This booster (B1062) has quite the history:

Quote:

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Falcon 9 B1062 launched Inspiration4 in 2021, operated by SpaceX on behalf of Shift4 Payments CEO Jared Isaacman.[280] The mission launched the Crew Dragon Resilience on 16 September 2021 at 00:02:56 UTC[a] from the Florida Kennedy Space Center's Launch Complex 39A atop a Falcon 9 launch vehicle, placed the Dragon capsule into low Earth orbit,[258] and ended successfully on 18 September 2021 at 23:06:49 UTC,[281] when the Resilience splashed down in the Atlantic Ocean. B1062 holds the record for the fastest booster turnaround time at 21 days and 4 hours between 8 April 2022 (Axiom-1) and 29 April 2022 (Starlink Group 416) beating the previous record of 27 days and 6 hours held by B1060. This was the first time a booster had flown twice in the same calendar month. According to the SpaceX webcast of the Starlink Group 4-16 mission, the booster spent just nine days in refurbishment. This booster was the first booster to achieve 20 launches and landings. This booster completed 22 successful launch and landings, before tipping over on its 23rd landing on the droneship A Shortfall of Gravitas during the Starlink 8-6 mission

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Looks like 23 landings is the magic number for the landing legs to fail...

Tramp96 said:

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will25u said:

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After a successful ascent, Falcon 9's first stage booster tipped over following touchdown on the A Shortfall of Gravitas droneship. Teams are assessing the booster's flight data and status. This was the booster's 23rd launch.

— SpaceX (@SpaceX) August 28, 2024

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I know I'm being overly simplistic here, but looking at the droneship and the center of gravity of the booster, one would think an unexpected rough wave (not necessarily a rogue wave), at just the right time could cause enough instability to cause the booster to tip over.

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I would assume the ship has an anti roll system, similar to subsea construction ships. We had one on a ship built 15+ years ago, I can only imagine they have gotten better.

ETA I am certain the naval archs built this thing with rolling in mind, with a favorable CG and hull shape. I can only assume It has a DP system and will put its bow in the most favorable position to minimize the environmental forces. You would be surprised how little rolling you do at the right heading.

Agreed, and the booster, empty of fuel, is very much the opposite of 'top heavy.' 90 or more percent of the mass is in the bottom 10-15 feet I'd guess.

Keep in mind what someone way up above posted a few months ago; they have been deleting lot's of stuff regarding refurbishment/cleaning/inspections to the point they are almost trying to see what it takes to lead to a failure down the line. I'm incredulous this linkage/hinge wear (if that's what it was) really couldn't have been fairly easily picked up with inspection, but they want to test the limits of how much they can cut down on and still launch/land reliably (I am sure there are full procedures still for manned launches).

I am sure in their down range weather, etc go no-go they take into account wave height and intensity and will not launch if it is more than shallow waves.

For sure, but the wave period is more problematic than height. You can have 1 foot seas but a long period will induce rolling. You can have 7 foot seas with a 5 second period and you'll think you're in a bathtub. Ok m sure parameters are different for their vessel, but anything over 8 seconds for us and we start to see problems.

Sea Speed said:

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For sure, but the wave period is more problematic than height. You can have 1 foot seas but a long period will induce rolling. You can have 7 foot seas with a 5 second period and you'll think you're in a bathtub. Ok m sure parameters are different for their vessel, but anything over 8 seconds for us and we start to see problems.

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Username checks out

SpaceX has also conducted these investigations very quickly, and gotten FAA approval to return to flight. So it's possible the delay is not too long. The last one, after the second stage engine anomaly in June, took like two weeks.

— Christian Davenport (@wapodavenport) August 28, 2024

Tramp96 said:

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will25u said:

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After a successful ascent, Falcon 9's first stage booster tipped over following touchdown on the A Shortfall of Gravitas droneship. Teams are assessing the booster's flight data and status. This was the booster's 23rd launch.

— SpaceX (@SpaceX) August 28, 2024

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I know I'm being overly simplistic here, but looking at the droneship and the center of gravity of the booster, one would think an unexpected rough wave (not necessarily a rogue wave), at just the right time could cause enough instability to cause the booster to tip over.

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I work offshore projects; if its pinned somewhere, it ain't going anywhere. Typically, they have to measure the COG and calculate for 100-yaer storm conditions to determine the seafastening method and load. (in my experience)

edit: I just read the story above explaining... yeah, you're right with that high tower of the booster; if a wave, swell, or gust hits at the right time before it's seafastened it certainly could tip it over. It'd be the job of the ship to correct for metocean conditions...

nortex97 said:

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Keep in mind what someone way up above posted a few months ago; they have been deleting lot's of stuff regarding refurbishment/cleaning/inspections to the point they are almost trying to see what it takes to lead to a failure down the line. I'm incredulous this linkage/hinge wear (if that's what it was) really couldn't have been fairly easily picked up with inspection, but they want to test the limits of how much they can cut down on and still launch/land reliably (I am sure there are full procedures still for manned launches).

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It's good that they're testing the limits of how much they can cut down, but because of the FAA's itchy trigger finger on investigations SpaceX is going to become risk averse because things like tipping over on a drone ship after it's already completed its mission and touched down on target is affecting future launches.

Ok, I'll chime in. It was technically a mishap. Part of the flight plan included landing and recovery, so basically anytime there is a mishap there is an automatic suspension of further flights pending an investigation.

Not the right legalese/bureaucratic language I know, but this is just how it works, to my understanding. This one is likely to be over in a week or two, imho. They'll sort it out and move on:

Losing a booster is always sad. Each one of them has a unique history and character. Thankfully this doesn’t happen often, due to the robust design and vigilance of the team.

We are working as hard as we can to thoroughly understand root cause and get corrective actions in place…

— Jon Edwards (@edwards345) August 28, 2024

Hopefully Europa Clipper will be a fun one:

The next major milestone for our mission in NASA's standard process is Key Decision Point E on Sept. 9, when the agency will decide whether we're ready to proceed to launch. A media briefing targeted for that same week will provide more information.

— NASA Europa Clipper (@EuropaClipper) August 28, 2024

nortex97 said:

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Ok, I'll chime in. It was technically a mishap. Part of the flight plan included landing and recovery, so basically anytime there is a mishap there is an automatic suspension of further flights pending an investigation.

Not the right legalese/bureaucratic language I know, but this is just how it works, to my understanding. This one is likely to be over in a week or two, imho. They'll sort it out and move on:

Losing a booster is always sad. Each one of them has a unique history and character. Thankfully this doesn’t happen often, due to the robust design and vigilance of the team.

We are working as hard as we can to thoroughly understand root cause and get corrective actions in place…

— Jon Edwards (@edwards345) August 28, 2024

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From the IFT-4 launch license I thought the launch licenses for Falcon 9 could be written in a way that said certain failures were acceptable as long as public safety isn't compromised with the understanding that it would be corrected, but that there would be no halt to future launches.

If IFT-5 wasn't going to include a booster catch, the FAA would have been fine repeating IFT-4 even though the booster came down with one engine on fire and ship came down 6 miles off course and a few rivets away from disintegration.

nortex97 said:

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Hopefully Europa Clipper will be a fun one:

The next major milestone for our mission in NASA's standard process is Key Decision Point E on Sept. 9, when the agency will decide whether we're ready to proceed to launch. A media briefing targeted for that same week will provide more information.

— NASA Europa Clipper (@EuropaClipper) August 28, 2024

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Good thing it's not landing...

Isn't this the second booster they've lost this year?

The Falcon 9 that, when brand new, launched Demo 2 to the ISS and returned American astronauts to space in an American made launch vehicle was destroyed earlier this year.

Landed, but tipped over in transport. Launch was on the 23rd, fell over on the 25th.

During transport back to Port early this morning, the booster tipped over on the droneship due to high winds and waves. Newer Falcon boosters have upgraded landing legs with the capability to self-level and mitigate this type of issue

— SpaceX (@SpaceX) December 26, 2023

I think you're conflating Starship launch licenses with F9 operations. I could be wrong.

hph6203 said:

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Landed, but tipped over in transport. Launch was on the 23rd, fell over on the 25th.

During transport back to Port early this morning, the booster tipped over on the droneship due to high winds and waves. Newer Falcon boosters have upgraded landing legs with the capability to self-level and mitigate this type of issue

— SpaceX (@SpaceX) December 26, 2023

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Hey, what do you know...ol' Tramp96 was right for a change.

nortex97 said:

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I think you're conflating Starship launch licenses with F9 operations. I could be wrong.

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Yes, I know they're different rockets. Please read it again.

When are they launching starship again?