Try having a discussion without taking things personally buddy. Take deep breaths.

Sea Speed said:

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GAC06 said:

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Ok, how specifically would this general earning an expert rifle and pistol qualification make him more qualified to lead AFRICOM?

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Dude I'm on the outside looking in and even I understand the points that are being made here. as commander of africom, no, it probably doesn't matter. As a leader of Marines, yes, it matters to the people he will be leading. That is literally all that these guys are saying. It's really not that hard.

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This thread is questioning the ability of a general based on the lack of a ribbon that is almost completely outside the control of those who receive one, and his mid level shooting qualifications.

Shooting isn't what a general does.

GAC06 said:

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Try having a discussion without taking things personally buddy. Take deep breaths.

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I'm not taking anything personal, bud. I'm only disagreeing with you because you think that small things like this don't matter unless it pertains to certain metrics.

I was a Drill Instructor. Don't get me started on the wearing of white socks in uniform, or putting your hands in your pockets!

Then you should know that as a pilot I was well aware I could wear only wings and no ribbons or badges on fridays we were required to wear service B, and that a leather jacket is authorized at a battalion formation in C's to blow grunts minds

GAC06 said:

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Try having a discussion without taking things personally buddy. Take deep breaths.

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Your arrogance is exceeded only by your lack of self awareness…

GAC06 said:

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Then you should know that as a pilot I was well aware I could wear only wings and no ribbons or badges on fridays we were required to wear service B, and that a leather jacket is authorized at a battalion formation in C's to blow grunts minds

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Oh, I know, and to us enlisted, that just screams laziness. I was also aircrew for a couple of years, have my wings, and know the benefit of wearing a flight suit and associated jackets. We still liked to "keep it real" when it came time to wear ribbons and badges, though.

Wearing just your wings and/or your top 3 ribbons just screams lazy and/or Navy wannabe. I know you're a "Naval Aviator", but you should still want to walk the walk of being a Marine in uniform.

It's an approved uniform

Wouldn't anyone have had to qualify for this type of thing WAY before gaining field grade?

I don't think it's a big deal, honestly, but I keep seeing "Generals don't shoot.". True... But lieutenants do.

coconutED said:

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There aren't many four star Marine generals to begin with. I believe the only way a Marine can get a fourth star, outside of a joint billet that may be held by an officer of any service (which looks to be the case for this individual), is to be the Commandant.

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Commandant and Assistant Commandant are both four stars. Joint billets would include CO of one of the unified combatant commands or Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Can anyone point out to me the combat experience of the Supreme Commander of Allied Forces Europe during WWII?

I seem to recall he was a five star general and later POTUS.

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Ike also didnt have 20+ years of continuous war from which he could get combat experience.

Buddy of mine is a Lt. Col - he has 4 deployments under his velt and a crap ton of front line action.

The opportunities were there.

What's the ratio of O6s that become flag officers? Isn't there a measure of "politics" involved to be promoted to that rank?

GAC06 said:

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It's an approved uniform

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Yep. So is PT gear.

If you have the privilege of wearing them, rock out with your cock out. We like to look the best that we can while wearing all of our uniforms - not just roll out of bed, jump in your flight suit, and zip up and go.

schmellba99 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Can anyone point out to me the combat experience of the Supreme Commander of Allied Forces Europe during WWII?

I seem to recall he was a five star general and later POTUS.

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Ike also didnt have 20+ years of continuous war from which he could get combat experience.

Buddy of mine is a Lt. Col - he has 4 deployments under his velt and a crap ton of front line action.

The opportunities were there.

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If the artillery are getting involved in front line action we have a bigger issue on our hands

BigRobSA said:

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Wouldn't anyone have had to qualify for this type of thing WAY before gaining field grade?

I don't think it's a big deal, honestly, but I keep seeing "Generals don't shoot.". True... But lieutenants do.

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Yep. Lieutenants and Captains both go to the rifle and pistol range every year. Majors and Light Colonels only do the pistol range annually. Full Colonels and generals don't shoot ****, but still have to wear their most recent range qual badge, hence the general in question only being a sharpshooter on both.

CharlieBrown17 said:

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schmellba99 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Can anyone point out to me the combat experience of the Supreme Commander of Allied Forces Europe during WWII?

I seem to recall he was a five star general and later POTUS.

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Ike also didnt have 20+ years of continuous war from which he could get combat experience.

Buddy of mine is a Lt. Col - he has 4 deployments under his velt and a crap ton of front line action.

The opportunities were there.

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If the artillery are getting involved in front line action we have a bigger issue on our hands

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Not really. Arty guys aren't that far behind the lines. FOBs and firebases get attacked. Not to mention, they have to convoy to get to where they set up in the field. They need to know how to whip it on with a weapon other than their cannon.

Side note: I've personally seen officers (Lieutenants up to Majors) run out of the COC at the FOB while we were taking incoming. Why? They wanted to be on the gun line when the counter battery radar picked up a POO (point of origin) site so they could pull a lanyard on a M777 howitzer and "return fire", thus rating a Combat Action Ribbon.

I've also seen aircrews (enlisted and officers) say that their helo got shot at (tracers), just so they can get an Air Medal. It's ****ing sad.

Love Gun said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Wouldn't anyone have had to qualify for this type of thing WAY before gaining field grade?

I don't think it's a big deal, honestly, but I keep seeing "Generals don't shoot.". True... But lieutenants do.

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Yep. Lieutenants and Captains both go to the rifle and pistol range every year. Majors and Light Colonels only do the pistol range annually. Full Colonels and generals don't shoot ****, but still have to wear their most recent range qual badge, hence the general in question only being a sharpshooter on both.

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Thanks for the info.

I was mostly being facetious.

That last bit is unfortunate. Air Force air medals are pretty rare and more earned than that from what I've seen. Aerial achievement medals are the more give me award, 25 sorties into a "combat" zone on different days. Not that there's any real air combat AORs left.

GAC06 said:

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Sea Speed said:

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GAC06 said:

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Ok, how specifically would this general earning an expert rifle and pistol qualification make him more qualified to lead AFRICOM?

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Dude I'm on the outside looking in and even I understand the points that are being made here. as commander of africom, no, it probably doesn't matter. As a leader of Marines, yes, it matters to the people he will be leading. That is literally all that these guys are saying. It's really not that hard.

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This thread is questioning the ability of a general based on the lack of a ribbon that is almost completely outside the control of those who receive one, and his mid level shooting qualifications.

Shooting isn't what a general does.

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The OP simply asked how often one gets promoted without mastering even the mot basic of Marine qualifications and no combat experiwnce, which is a very valid question.

He alo made the comment that based on the current CinC's wokeism, this guy likely has beenpromoted due to social justice over actual accomplishments or merits, or at east that is definitely a cloud overhanging him. Which sucks for him onthat front.

Love Gun said:

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cevans_40 said:

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As an uneducated observer, can someone tell me what matters as far this promotion goes because all I have yet to conclude is that being able to accurately fire a rifle and pistol somehow doesn't.

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Promotion-wise, it matters because it shows your proficiency in something that we, as Marines, take a personal pride in. Fundamentally, you want to excel in all that you do. For promotion selection, would the promotion board members vote for you with multiple expert badges, or the next guy that can't achieve the highest qualification unlike his peers?

As a commander, you want to set the example for all others under your charge, regardless of you think it's meaningless or doesn't "fit" your MOS.

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So something like a Construction Superintendent not being very good with a hammer? While not something he does on the daily, something he should be good at?

Im just waiting for some of y'all to slap down a pic of your ribbon rack.

I was enlisted army. I didn't GAF how generals shot or qualified on their weapons. If a senior officer is picking up a rifle and firing back then things have gone horribly wrong.

I see two Afghan deployments on his rack. Anybody that knows (at least for the army) CABs and CIBs are given out like candy, just as someone earlier said the Bronze Star is a participation award unless it has the little V on it

CharlieBrown17 said:

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I was mostly being facetious.

That last bit is unfortunate. Air Force air medals are pretty rare and more earned than that from what I've seen. Aerial achievement medals are the more give me award, 25 sorties into a "combat" zone on different days. Not that there's any real air combat AORs left.

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Oh, it got silly out there when I was in Iraq. I was an intel analyst. I remember an MV-22 Osprey crew say that they got engaged by two MANPADs at once. They said they saw two corkscrew smoke trails coming at them from the ground. We even sent an infantry platoon out to that area to find a POO site since most MANPADs leave a scorch mark on the ground when fired. They found an old Bedouin campfire site, and the brass said, "Yep! Must be it". We even had two Cobra pilots report to us that they had just lifted off from that area at Camp Fallujah, and kicked their flares as per protocol for function checks prior to taking off on a mission. The brass dismissed it.

That Osprey squadron rotated back to the States as scheduled the following week - with their new Air Medals.

JABQ04 said:

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Im just waiting for some of y'all to slap down a pic of your ribbon rack.

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Cool. Here you go. I'm not ashamed of anything I did or didn't do.

CharlieBrown17 said:

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schmellba99 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Can anyone point out to me the combat experience of the Supreme Commander of Allied Forces Europe during WWII?

I seem to recall he was a five star general and later POTUS.

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Ike also didnt have 20+ years of continuous war from which he could get combat experience.

Buddy of mine is a Lt. Col - he has 4 deployments under his velt and a crap ton of front line action.

The opportunities were there.

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If the artillery are getting involved in front line action we have a bigger issue on our hands

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Army enlisted artilleryman here, well former, never touched a howitzer my two years in Iraq. Out pounding sand.

Y'all marksmanship badges are sexier than ours.

And I was being silly about posting ribbons.

JABQ04 said:

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Y'all marksmanship badges are sexier than ours.

And I was being silly about posting ribbons.

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Hey, it's all good. I know some here will mention my lack of combat action ribbon. I took fire in Bosnia in 1998 and in Iraq in 2009. The criteria varied during those times because you had to "return fire", which I never did. Between those times, you simply had to be in the vicinity of fire. I've seen Marines that were part of a 100 vehicle convoy all get CARs because one vehicle got hit with an IED. We're talking several hundred Marines - all getting combat action ribbons. They changed the criteria to "return fire" after that

LegalDrugPusher said:

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Here is the current Assistant Commandant of the Marine Corps. Texas Aggie class of 87, former BQ Commander.

General Smith I know personally he was my MOI from 98-00. Major Smith at the time. He is originally from Plano.
He has a large amount of combat experience from Panama to Iraq. A grunt through and through and a rifle and pistol expert at the highest qualifications. He was a PT hoss and I'm sure he still is today.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Smith_(general)

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Photographer "Smile for the picture"

General Smith "I am smiling"

Love Gun said:

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JABQ04 said:

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Im just waiting for some of y'all to slap down a pic of your ribbon rack.

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Cool. Here you go. I'm not ashamed of anything I did or didn't do.

Thank you for your service

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Yeah definitely different

Our poor awards and dec guys are trying to write 80+ different citations to send up for single event air medals for the Kabul shenanigans. Nevermind the fact it was the most dangerous flying in the AOR in the last 10 years

CharlieBrown17 said:

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Yeah definitely different

Our poor awards and dec guys are trying to write 80+ different citations to send up for single event air medals for the Kabul shenanigans. Nevermind the fact it was the most dangerous flying in the AOR in the last 10 years

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Oh, I believe it. With the Talibs and their new weaponry surrounding the AO on that extract, you weren't getting helos in and out of there.

From everything I've seen and heard, getting out of Saigon in 1975 was a lot easier than Kabul in 2021.

CharlieBrown17 said:

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Yeah definitely different

Our poor awards and dec guys are trying to write 80+ different citations to send up for single event air medals for the Kabul shenanigans. Nevermind the fact it was the most dangerous flying in the AOR in the last 10 years

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Higher level medals are such a ****ing subjective thing and depends first and foremost on the initial write up. You have stuff like you listed and then we had a guy jump on a grenade but since it low ordered and he didn't die, he just got a Silver Star for it while that exact same action was bread and butter MOH for several generations.

Either way, to get back to the conversation, yes it is odd that this Marine managed to reach a level without hitting a couple of milestones that were always the unwritten stepping stones. Does it matter in the end? Extremely doubtful. I am not going to lose any sleep on this and instead give him the benefit of the doubt as a uniformed Marine and general officer.

That really should be end all, for all of us unless direct evidence is found to contradict it. None of which has been presented. Original OP was slightly overblown IMO but a still valid conversation. The ensuing couple pages is embarrassing all around.

With this admin so long as they're super straight or super gay I'll take it.

Eliminatus said:

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The ensuing couple pages is embarrassing all around.

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Sorry you disagree, but opinions are like ass holes

I'm friends with air force general who knows this guy and also went to school with him. He says this Marine general is an impressive leader and well deserving.

No big deal. It is not like we have a high chance of getting in a shooting war with china in the S.E. Pacific and this guy could get a lot of Marines killed or lose us a war. Diversity is the best thing ever !! Why ? Nobody knows beyond it " enriches us " but that is enough even if it leads to Tens of thousands of soldiers deaths !!

He was in the military during the Gulf War and 20 years of being actively involved in combat in the Middle East . How the hell does he not have any combat experience ?? This guy is going to lead huge amounts of Marines in combat in terms of major decisions and he has as much combat experience as a draft dodging hippie !! Give me an F'ing break.
When ever some body is tauted as the first " whatever " that " whatever " was taken into account in them getting the job/promotion /award/ medal. There is no way him being black did not help him rise up the chain and disadvantage those who did not fill in box and were competing against him. To say otherwise is to ignore our racist new reality. Where if you believe in not judging people by the color of their skin that makes you a racist.
I bet some where along the line. You can find him speaking about discrimination and rascisms in the U.S.Military. Would be a thousand dollars on it !