KC teen knocks door on wrong house, gets shot

30,457 Views | 296 Replies | Last: 2 days ago by pagerman @ work
The Kraken
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16YO goes to wrong address to pick up friends (116th St vs one block over at 116th Terrace) to pick up friends, gets shot twice by the homeowner.

Aggie related in that he wants to attend A&M and study Chem E. Plays bass clarinet, wonder if he is interested in the FTAB?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11977801/Scholar-shot-head-white-homeowner-rang-wrong-doorbell-picking-siblings.html

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article274380535.html

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/17/us/kansas-city-teen-shot-wrong-house/index.html
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Not a Bot
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10pm, young black male ringing the doorbell. Unfortunately it's going to put people on edge given the events of the last several years. American minds have been trained to fear instead of trust and that's sad.


EDIT: Since people are misinterpreting what I said (I should have been better with my words) please read:
  • There are situations in which this type of shooting *might* be justified. This is probably not one of them, but we don't have all the information.
  • Even *if* there was an initial reasonable fear justifying the first shot and he can convince people of his justification, IMO it can't justify the second shot if what the family is saying is true about him shooting him again as he's on the ground after he shot him in the head. At that point, he's not a threat. Close your door and call police. That shot (again, if what is being reported is true) is quite possibly made from anger and not fear.
  • If it's determined that he had no reasonable justification to be in fear and initiated an attempted homicide for other reasons, he should be convicted. This is the likely outcome.
  • Waiting for more information to have an opinion about it is not a bad thing as we haven't exactly had the best track record of getting things right when we are told by media outlets to be outraged (See Rittenhouse, Sandmann, etc.).
Rapier108
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And all the articles are 100% in on playing the race card.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
Not a Bot
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Rapier108 said:

And all the articles are 100% in on playing the race card.
More clicks.

News outlets barely talking about the mass shooting in Alabama yesterday. Black on black, so not news.
rgag12
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Homeowner is a big dummy and deserves to away for awhile.

Protecting your property is one thing, but shooting someone you think doesn't look right immediately after they ring your doorbell is another.
Rapier108
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Not a Bot said:

Rapier108 said:

And all the articles are 100% in on playing the race card.
More clicks.

News outlets barely talking about the mass shooting in Alabama yesterday. Black on black, so not news.
Or the one in Louisville a few hours earlier. Those stories barely make the news, other than articles calling for gun bans.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
leachfan
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They may be right on this one. Of course, there may be additional info.
Rapier108
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rgag12 said:

Homeowner is a big dummy and deserves to away for awhile.

Protecting your property is one thing, but shooting someone you think doesn't look right immediately after they ring your doorbell is another.
Assuming that is what actually happened.

The media just loves to leave out important information if it helps the narrative. It's why the 48 hour rule exists.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
Maroon Dawn
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At this point we have zero details about what actually happened on the porch

Could be just like what the MSM is racing to screech: that it was just an unjustified shoot by the home owner out of fear of a young black man after dark

OR as usual, they're leaving out key info and it could be something else entirely

Like someone else said, hope they had Ring or some other monitoring device
aggielostinETX
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Rapier108 said:

rgag12 said:

Homeowner is a big dummy and deserves to away for awhile.

Protecting your property is one thing, but shooting someone you think doesn't look right immediately after they ring your doorbell is another.
Assuming that is what actually happened.

The media just loves to leave out important information if it helps the narrative. It's why the 48 hour rule exists.



I second this motion.
“A republic, if you can keep it”

AggieKatie2 said:
ETX is honestly starting to scare me a bit as someone who may be trigger happy.
Lake08
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Cue Lebron and the NBA to wear warm-up tshirts supporting this kid
e=mc2
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Pro tip: Bad folk don't ring the doorbell. And if the HO has Ring, he could have answered through it.
FrioAg 00
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Details matter. In high school I almost got shot once by my friends Dad, I was there to pick him up around 9-10pm to head to a pool hall.

But I was in my brothers car, which his dad had never seen. I left the car door open - ran inside to grab my buddy, and left the front door of their house open too. I did something to my friend horsing around - then ran out the front door to get away from retribution.

As I was running out - his dad (sheriff) was coming home from a long shift. Given the scene he was pretty curious what was happening - and when I can running out he drew on me. Thanks goodness he had the discipline not to fire.


My point is details matter, a lot, on what kind of shoot this was
torrid
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FrioAg 00 said:

Details matter. In high school I almost got shot once by my friends Dad, I was there to pick him up around 9-10pm to head to a pool hall.

But I was in my brothers car, which his dad had never seen. I left the car door open - ran inside to grab my buddy, and left the front door of their house open too. I did something to my friend horsing around - then ran out the front door to get away from retribution.

As I was running out - his dad (sheriff) was coming home from a long shift. Given the scene he was pretty curious what was happening - and when I can running out he drew on me. Thanks goodness he had the discipline not to fire.


My point is details matter, a lot, on what kind of shoot this was
I would not characterize the situation you describe as a "good shoot" had he actually shot you.
AG N ASIA
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Unfortunately, this is where we are in the USA. Our DA's are not prosecuting crime and the news outlets hypes the surge in crime and promotes the division of our country by race creating fear of one another. I hope there is more to the story than we are hearing, but there are at least two more families that are going to have to deal with the consequences of a poor justice process.
barbacoa taco
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Rapier108 said:

And all the articles are 100% in on playing the race card.
Well because maybe, just maybe, the race card is applicable in this situation. Have you considered that?

We can wait and see what the homeowner's excuse was for his over the top reaction, but I think we can all agree his handling of the situation was as piss poor as it gets.
TxTarpon
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Not a Bot said:

10pm, young black male ringing the doorbell. Unfortunately it's going to put people one edge given the events of the last several years. American minds have been trained to fear instead of trust and that's sad.

I hope this was caught on camera somewhere. If he did shoot him again after he fell he needs to go away for a long time. The first shot *may* have been legal depending on the circumstances.
Unsure about that state, in Texas shooting through the door has resulted in homeowners not going to prison.
We had one case in Bexar county where a guy (teen, wrong house) was shot on the ground by the homeowner after a foot chase. The jury acquitted the homeowner.

TxTarpon
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e=mc2 said:

Pro tip: Bad folk don't ring the doorbell. And if the HO has Ring, he could have answered through it.
But he wanted to bag what he thought was a bad guy!
See also Terry Turner
barbacoa taco
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As in, the teen was running away from the house and the homeowner was still firing at him? I'd love to know more facts about this case because that's damn near an open and shut case for a conviction.
RebelE Infantry
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How many of these stories are people going to believe before they realize with near mathematical certainty that the big story is at least in large part, if not in total, a lie.
The flames of the Imperium burn brightly in the hearts of men repulsed by degenerate modernity. Souls aflame with love of goodness, truth, beauty, justice, and order.
CoppellAg93
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Not a Bot said:

10pm, young black male ringing the doorbell. Unfortunately it's going to put people one edge given the events of the last several years. American minds have been trained to fear instead of trust and that's sad.

I hope this was caught on camera somewhere. If he did shoot him again after he fell he needs to go away for a long time. The first shot *may* have been legal depending on the circumstances.
Does he get shot if he's white??
FIDO*98*
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Yes, he may very well have been shot if he was white. Homeowner is an idiot and there are plenty of white meth heads running around committing property crimes. He may just be a shoot first ask questions later type of person
WaltonAg18
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barbacoa taco said:

As in, the teen was running away from the house and the homeowner was still firing at him? I'd love to know more facts about this case because that's damn near an open and shut case for a conviction.
IIRC the language of the law says that you can fire upon someone "in the act of or fleeing from committing a crime", something along those lines.
WaltonAg18
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FIDO*98* said:

Yes, he may very well have been shot if he was white. Homeowner is an idiot and there are plenty of white meth heads running around committing property crimes. He may just be a shoot first ask questions later type of person
Those types only serve to make it easier for the rights of law-abiding firearm owners to be infringed upon.
FancyKetchup14
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FIDO*98* said:

He may just be a shoot first ask questions later type of person
And those sorts of individuals should not be gun owners.
Not a Bot
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CoppellAg93 said:

Not a Bot said:

10pm, young black male ringing the doorbell. Unfortunately it's going to put people one edge given the events of the last several years. American minds have been trained to fear instead of trust and that's sad.

I hope this was caught on camera somewhere. If he did shoot him again after he fell he needs to go away for a long time. The first shot *may* have been legal depending on the circumstances.
Does he get shot if he's white??


If the circumstances are as reported (which is a stretch given the lack of reliability of modern journalism) my guess would be no. It's the totality of the circumstances. White guy sees nonstop news reports of black kids committing crimes. It's night time. Black kid rings doorbell. White guy makes assumption about the teen and his intentions.

We don't know what happened after homeowner confronted teenager, assuming the confrontation would not have started as confrontational if teenager was white.
Decay
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Article says he was questioned but released by police.

Given everything going on these days, I don't think they release him unless he's either lawyered up very well, or there's more to the story.

It doesn't smell right (if he's such a turbo racist murderer he'd be behind bars more likely than not) so 48 hour rule does seem to be warranted.
Owlagdad
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Lots of burglars MO is to knock, ring the doorbell, if you answer they say oh, I am looking for so and so, then move on. If they don't get an answer, they kick the door in.
Not saying shooter shouldn't have waited. How far off was this kid from those he was to pick up? If they were next door, shooter should be used to this. Let's see what stories are first.
jja79
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I saw over the weekend the young man's goal is chemical engineering and he's stated Texas A&M is where he wants to go.
barbacoa taco
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Not a Bot said:

CoppellAg93 said:

Not a Bot said:

10pm, young black male ringing the doorbell. Unfortunately it's going to put people one edge given the events of the last several years. American minds have been trained to fear instead of trust and that's sad.

I hope this was caught on camera somewhere. If he did shoot him again after he fell he needs to go away for a long time. The first shot *may* have been legal depending on the circumstances.
Does he get shot if he's white??


If the circumstances are as reported (which is a stretch given the lack of reliability of modern journalism) my guess would be no. It's the totality of the circumstances. White guy sees nonstop news reports of black kids committing crimes. It's night time. Black kid rings doorbell. White guy makes assumption about the teen and his intentions.

We don't know what happened after homeowner confronted teenager, assuming the confrontation would not have started as confrontational if teenager was white.
Even giving the homeowner every single benefit of the doubt as you do in this post right here, there is no justification for reacting the way he did.
WestTexasAg
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Terrible. Would like to know if anything happened that might have triggered the shooter. If he just shot at the kid without any reason other than he rang the doorbell, the shooter needs to be in jail for a long time.
Anonymous Source
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S
Decay said:

Article says he was questioned but released by police.

Given everything going on these days, I don't think they release him unless he's either lawyered up very well, or there's more to the story.

It doesn't smell right (if he's such a turbo racist murderer he'd be behind bars more likely than not) so 48 hour rule does seem to be warranted.
At a press conference this morning, the police chief said that Missouri law is they can hold for up to 24 hours, and then must charge or release, based on evidence gathered at the scene and a victim's statement, among other things. Since the kid is in the hospital, they can't get a victim's statement yet. They can go back and arrest the guy if the evidence bears that out.

Also....

Quote:

Ralph was meant to pick up his brothers from a friend's house on 115th Terrace. He ended up ringing the doorbell at a home on 115th Street

Read more here.
Gig 'Em
TxTarpon
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Quote:

As in, the teen was running away from the house and the homeowner was still firing at him? I'd love to know more facts about this case because that's damn near an open and shut case for a conviction.
I have posted it here numerous times over the years.
Then those threads got whacked in the age out.
Quote:

Homeowner is acquitted in student's shooting
Defense said client scared by an intruder.

After four years and two murder trials, homeowner Ray Lemes was acquitted by a jury Monday night of criminal wrongdoing for gunning down a college student on the asphalt of his cul-de-sac.

Lemes, 52, solemnly shook hands with his attorneys immediately after the eight-man, four-woman jury's verdict was read and then briskly left the Cadena-Reeves Justice Center with his wife and a small crowd of supporters.

"It's been a long road for both families. This should have been resolved a long time ago," he said, stating that the district attorney's office is a "disgrace" before walking away. "They would better serve us by opening up a clown academy."
-------------------------
According to Lemes' attorneys, he was a terrified homeowner intent on keeping his wife from getting raped after chasing an aggressive intruder out of his house in the middle of the night.
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There was nothing disturbed in the home and no sign of forced entry, and the Lemes' "very heightened sense of security" makes it seem impossible that the door was left unlocked, Lunan said. It is possible that Glass, who had a blood-alcohol level of 0.10, which is above the state's legal limit of .08, rattled the door handle thinking that it was his sister's, Lunan said.
There was testimony that the story was different. (see below)

Quote:

Argument preceded gunfire, neighbor says Woman also testifies she saw her neighbor pacing in street with pistol.
"I hear arguing, very loud cursing ... and shortly after that, gunshots," Lally testified. "I recognized Ray's voice ... It was kind of soft on the other part, but Ray was cursing quite a bit."

After diving to the floor and calling police, Lally looked out her window to see Lemes behind a brush pile in the street, shirtless and pacing with a pistol in his hand, she said.
--------------
Lemes, 51, could face up to life in prison if jurors determine he illegally shot Angelo State University student Tracy Glass, 19, five times including once in his back.
----------------
But prosecutors David Lunan and Jason Garrahan pointed out Monday that all six shell casings from Lemes' gun were found in the street not on his property.

San Antonio police Detective Sean Walsh, who carries a Glock pistol of his own, said the firearm generally ejects casings about 8 to 10 feet behind and to the right of a shooter.
Did Lemes talk to Glass in the street before he killed him?
Did he say "If you move I will blow you away?"
Glass started to surrender, moving to lay on the ground while Lemes blew him away.
This even probably cost Lemes $70k between both trials.

And he did not even kill a criminal.
Quote:

Argument preceded gunfire, neighbor says
Lemes said he involuntarily shot twice when, running outside, he saw the man jump out from behind a brush pile. He purposely fired four more times as the crouching figure charged toward him, he said.

"Isn't it true your true objective was to punish that kid you thought was in your house?" Lunan asked.
Lemes responded: "I would love to have apprehended him and let the law do that."
The "charge" was argued by the prosecution as Glass had hands up and going forward lying on the ground to give up. There was forensic evidence of where he was shot.

Texas homeowner who killed teen cleared
AggieCo2023
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You're allowed to shoot anyone who rings your door bell in the head with no warning??
aggielostinETX
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AggieCo2023 said:

You're allowed to shoot anyone who rings your door bell in the head with no warning??


You have no idea that's what occurred here.
“A republic, if you can keep it”

AggieKatie2 said:
ETX is honestly starting to scare me a bit as someone who may be trigger happy.
 
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