B-1 83 said:

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samurai_science said:

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Imagine caring what a pope says

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Well, 1.3 billion Christians do…….

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Humanity is not smart, news at 11

Monkeypoxfighter said:

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In 2000 years, there have been some doozies, alright. Now, find someone on this thread or otherwise, who will defend those. The clergy =/= the faith, and as humans they are certainly subject to human fault. Welcome to 2024 - it's not 1024.

Don't you have other higher theological things to worry about like whether musical instruments or recorded music should be allowed in church?

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Huh?

None of what you mentioned concerns me in the least. Nice strawman man. You don't eve know what denomination (if any) I espouse.

And no, to B-83 I don't hate the catholic church.

But when members espouse divine authority for the pope.

And when Catholics deem people who recognize the fallibility of the pope as deserving of excommunication despite as you mentioned 2000 years of evidence that the Pope is in fact fallible then the hypocrisy irks me enough that I feel the need to speak up.

As you so elloquently pointed out, the clergy and administration of the Catholic church has a 2000 year history of killing and excommunicating the righteous among their number while the men in silly robes and hats have at times engaged in activities that would make Caligula blush.

So perhaps evaluating someone's piety based on their alignment with RCC administration and a man in a silly hat is probably not the best move for Catholics.

"Well you can excommunicate me on my way to Sunday School,
and have all the bishops harmonize these lines"

Always loved that song. Especially since my grandfather was excommunicated from his Lutheran church.

Ags4DaWin said:

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Monkeypoxfighter said:

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B-1 83 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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Catholics should put their faith in Jesus and not any person occupying the chair of St. Peter.

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Classic F16.

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The usual suspects cant ever seem to grasp the concept of "faith" vs. "clergy". Then there's this jewel…..

Quote:

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The Catholic church or "Universal Church" since it doesn't even have Christ in its name

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Hmmmmmmmmmmmm……….

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Catholic LITERALLY means universal or all embracing.

The Roman All Embracing Church tells you exactly what it is in its name.

It is a church that was designed to bring all the Christ believing peoples under one rule.....an extension of the Roman empire.

I am sorry that reality hurts you but go back and read some history.

The position of Pope was used for political purposes to direct European kings and queens and provide a political check against secular power via the pretense to divine authority.

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Literally what

bobbranco said:

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PabloSerna said:

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He actually did this himself by refusing to submit to the authority of the Pope and rejecting much of the teachings of Vatican II. It just finally caught up to him because as you will see, his view on both have influenced many of the faithful. He had his day in court.

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This Pope has proved his fallibility. And there are laity who blindly follow this failed Pope. Sad bitter pompous marxist Jesuit he is. If anything he will be known as the modern equivalent of Pope Benedict IX with his blind eye to the true problems that continue to fester.

And Vatican II gutted the church.

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You know there is a church in communion with Rome where Vatican II is treated exactly how it was supposed to be; as a non binding thought experiment

B-1 83 said:

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samurai_science said:

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Imagine caring what a pope says

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Well, 1.3 billion Christians do…….

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Plus quite a few non-Catholic Christians that regularly post on F16.

Ags4DaWin said:

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doubledog said:

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The Catholic Church is not a democracy. You cannot have a popular vote on matters of faith.

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You cannot be fully aware of the history of evil or sinful Papal actions, the 37 "false" pope's, the several Saints who were martyred under Papal direction and honestly believe that it is your job as a "good catholic" to blindly follow someone who wears a funny hat.

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You did not understand my original post. Matters of faith are not up to a vote.
Yes there have been corrupt popes and saintly popes in the 2000 years of the papacy. In all that time, matters of faith have never been gauged by public opinion.

VaultingChemist said:

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"Well you can excommunicate me on my way to Sunday School,
and have all the bishops harmonize these lines"

Always loved that song. Especially since my grandfather was excommunicated from his Lutheran church.

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Did he wonder if there was anything he could have done differently or was there an inevitability to it?

Have the whereabouts of Vigano been confirmed?

As a NOT Catholic, my questions are:
1) I hope the new pope is not a Marxist like Francis. Did they learn their lesson?
2) Can they reinstate Vigano now?

I think he lives in NYC, but may be back in Italy, I have no idea. As a reminder, he thought/called out that the cover-up of McCarrick was wrong, covid was a scam etc, Ukraine-Russia, globalist threats, Biden-Obama vs. Trump, and that the legitimacy of Francis was…well not a thing, and that he should resign. Bold stuff, of course. He has a blog, of sorts.

His brother tried to block him from taking a couple million bucks of their inheritance but I am not sure how all that played out back in Italy.

I'm not Catholic but consider him a brother in Christ.