Pope: Mass deportations will end badly

13,135 Views | 177 Replies | Last: 10 days ago by PabloSerna
American Hardwood
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Bob Lee said:

American Hardwood said:

Quote:

"This does not impede the development of a policy that regulates orderly and legal migration. However, this development cannot come about through the privilege of some and the sacrifice of others. What is built on the basis of force, and not on the truth about the equal dignity of every human being, begins badly and will end badly," he added.
Here is actually the expanded quote. This is the reason I believe that Francis is either not very smart or is intentionally obtuse so as to create ambiguity leading to my aforementioned observation regarding the media response.

He is perfectly contradictory in the two highlighted statements. On the one hand he says policies that regulate migration need not be impeded, yet in the following sentence he says that no one should be treated unequally which essentially means that regulation would be impossible because the whole point of regulation is to allow some migrants but not others. Some have to sacrifice and remain outside while others are privileged with entry.


Respectfully, you'll have to go and read what's meant by the dignity of the human person in Catholic theology. It's part and parcel of our humanity. Equal treatment doesn't imply a right to stay in the country. There is still a distinction between a citizen and non-citizen. There's no tension between that distinction and equal treatment under the law.
Respectfully, he implies quite clearly that he believes policy, our policy specifically, violates human dignity. There most certainly is tension or otherwise this wouldn't be the 'crisis' he felt compelled to comment upon. For him, it would seem, any judgement that prevents staying in this country or deporting is a judgment against their human dignity. That's the catch.

In the linked article, he describes the supposed horrible conditions that compelled these people to leave their homes, therefore, any policy that would return them to their home thereby violated human dignity and is therefore immoral.

In his equation, there is no factor for the human dignity of anyone else but the immigrants. No consideration about the criminal organizations that feed off of this situation or the dignity of those who suffer from the effects of this problem.

He should save his concern about equal treatment of people for the sake of human dignity for the individual whose soul is in jeopardy by failing to do so. That's his and His purview. Leave the governance of men to men and pray for the judgement of those men.
The best way to keep evil men from wielding great power is to not create great power in the first place.
AggieMD95
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I guess even the pope gets butt hurt
Artimus Gordon
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TRADUCTOR said:

Pope knows where his worldly bread is buttered. Illegals are a cash cow for the church.


Yeah at the American taxpayers expense. Helluva deal isn't it, Sir?
Captain Pablo
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aggiehawg said:

My assumption is that the Vatican is getting a huge cut of the USAID funding illegal human trafficking and that is why he's saying this. A money play and a money play only.


Catholic Relief Services receives $750 million from USAid, about half CRS's budget

I don't know how much goes to funding illegal immigration

KidDoc
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Mr Pope tear down your Vatican walls if you are so against immigration control.

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Ags4DaWin
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Bob Lee said:

I know y'all don't care, but what the heck. This is the actual quote from the letter to the Bishops. That's not the same as the thread title. Strictly speaking, this is true.

"What is built on the basis of force, and not on the truth about the equal dignity of every human being, begins badly and will end badly."


When people knowingly break a moral law, they reject their own dignity.

How the law treats them thereafter is a direct result of that and the person enforcing the law bears no responsibility for the consequences as long as the proper laws for enforcement are followed.
Ags4DaWin
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Captain Pablo said:

aggiehawg said:

My assumption is that the Vatican is getting a huge cut of the USAID funding illegal human trafficking and that is why he's saying this. A money play and a money play only.


Catholic Relief Services receives $750 million from USAid, about half CRS's budget

I don't know how much goes to funding illegal immigration




I would guess no more than half.

The other half is divided equally between the catholic church's coffers and the DNC's coffers.
American Hardwood
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Captain Pablo said:

aggiehawg said:

My assumption is that the Vatican is getting a huge cut of the USAID funding illegal human trafficking and that is why he's saying this. A money play and a money play only.


Catholic Relief Services receives $750 million from USAid, about half CRS's budget

I don't know how much goes to funding illegal immigration


It can never be stated enough. Government programs are NOT charity. Charity is the act of an individual for the betterment of his soul. Pope Francis and too many other people seem to be confused about this. All they see is money they can direct at whatever 'crisis' they judge warrants it. They never consider The Forgotten Man.
The best way to keep evil men from wielding great power is to not create great power in the first place.
Bob Lee
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American Hardwood said:

Bob Lee said:

American Hardwood said:

Quote:

"This does not impede the development of a policy that regulates orderly and legal migration. However, this development cannot come about through the privilege of some and the sacrifice of others. What is built on the basis of force, and not on the truth about the equal dignity of every human being, begins badly and will end badly," he added.
Here is actually the expanded quote. This is the reason I believe that Francis is either not very smart or is intentionally obtuse so as to create ambiguity leading to my aforementioned observation regarding the media response.

He is perfectly contradictory in the two highlighted statements. On the one hand he says policies that regulate migration need not be impeded, yet in the following sentence he says that no one should be treated unequally which essentially means that regulation would be impossible because the whole point of regulation is to allow some migrants but not others. Some have to sacrifice and remain outside while others are privileged with entry.


Respectfully, you'll have to go and read what's meant by the dignity of the human person in Catholic theology. It's part and parcel of our humanity. Equal treatment doesn't imply a right to stay in the country. There is still a distinction between a citizen and non-citizen. There's no tension between that distinction and equal treatment under the law.
Respectfully, he implies quite clearly that he believes policy, our policy specifically, violates human dignity. There most certainly is tension or otherwise this wouldn't be the 'crisis' he felt compelled to comment upon. For him, it would seem, any judgement that prevents staying in this country or deporting is a judgment against their human dignity. That's the catch.

In the linked article, he describes the supposed horrible conditions that compelled these people to leave their homes, therefore, any policy that would return them to their home thereby violated human dignity and is therefore immoral.

In his equation, there is no factor for the human dignity of anyone else but the immigrants. No consideration about the criminal organizations that feed off of this situation or the dignity of those who suffer from the effects of this problem.

He should save his concern about equal treatment of people for the sake of human dignity for the individual whose soul is in jeopardy by failing to do so. That's his and His purview. Leave the governance of men to men and pray for the judgement of those men.


His statement as such that you quoted is not contradictory at all. His premise is wrong. He doesn't say or imply that deportation is a violation of a person's dignity in and of itself. So that's not true.
HoustonAg9999
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I believe most popes are the anti Christs
v1rotate92
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Especially this one
Slick
Stupe
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Whenever I hear or read anything about this Pope, this is what comes to mind:

2 Corinthians 11:13-15

Quote:

13 These people are false apostles. They are deceitful workers who disguise themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 But I am not surprised! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no wonder that his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness.

Eso si, Que es
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He is correct, it will end badly. But he is assigning causation incorrectly.

What he should have said in 2021 is COMPLETLY WIDE OPEN BORDERS WILL END BADLY.

And now he should be saying that mass deportation will be extremely painful, but it is the lesser of two evils and as a sovereign country, the US has to protect it's citizens first and foremost.
Bob Lee
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Ags4DaWin said:

Bob Lee said:

I know y'all don't care, but what the heck. This is the actual quote from the letter to the Bishops. That's not the same as the thread title. Strictly speaking, this is true.

"What is built on the basis of force, and not on the truth about the equal dignity of every human being, begins badly and will end badly."


When people knowingly break a moral law, they reject their own dignity.

How the law treats them thereafter is a direct result of that and the person enforcing the law bears no responsibility for the consequences as long as the proper laws for enforcement are followed.


Okay but not all laws are just laws. That's not to say our immigration laws are unjust. Just that the person wilfully enforcing an unjust law bears some culpability.
CampSkunk
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Dear Francis,

I meditated on the parable of the Good Samaritan as you suggested, and The Holy Spirit led me to understand that the Good Samaritan helped the victim, not the robbers. The criminals we are removing are the robbers, and we are helping the victims by removing them, so other innocents will not be beaten, raped and robbed. We can show our love to the robbers by praying for their repentance, and at the same time we can return them to their home countries. In other words, the comparison is just absurd.

Peace,
CampSkunk
TheEternalOptimist
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StandUpforAmerica said:

"Pope Francis Predicts Trump Administration's Mass Deportation Program 'Will End Badly'"
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/pope-francis-predicts-trump-administrations-mass-deportation-program-will-end-badly/

A copy of the letter can be found here...


My 'favorite' is #7 where he talks about the the downside of prioritizing national identity. /rolleyes

I wish he was this motivated to speak against the most anti-Catholic president we've had in our lifetime, Biden.
The Nation and The Church are two different things.

Borders and Immigration belong to the government. Not the Church.

The pontiff needs to stay in his lane......... and he also should understand that the conservative resurgence in the RCC is real.

I am a liturgical reformed protestant..... but I have two close friends who are priests here in South Bama. Two of the most based conservatives I have ever met. That is the next generation of priests.

Liberals are abandoning church attendance.... and the woke church fads that spring up don't last long.
aezmvp
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Should start calling him Pope Avignon. Would be more appropriate.
Catag94
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Someone should ask the Pontiff how Romans 13:1-2 doesn't apply here!
infinity ag
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I like this Pope and he had nothing to do with it but the Catholic Church is known to protect pedos so they should STFU about things that don't concern them.

The US is not everyone's dad's house that they can just walk in and walk out as they please.
American Hardwood
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TheEternalOptimist said:

StandUpforAmerica said:

"Pope Francis Predicts Trump Administration's Mass Deportation Program 'Will End Badly'"
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/pope-francis-predicts-trump-administrations-mass-deportation-program-will-end-badly/

A copy of the letter can be found here...


My 'favorite' is #7 where he talks about the the downside of prioritizing national identity. /rolleyes

I wish he was this motivated to speak against the most anti-Catholic president we've had in our lifetime, Biden.
The Nation and The Church are two different things.

Borders and Immigration belong to the government. Not the Church.

The pontiff needs to stay in his lane......... and he also should understand that the conservative resurgence in the RCC is real.

I am a liturgical reformed protestant..... but I have two close friends who are priests here in South Bama. Two of the most based conservatives I have ever met. That is the next generation of priests.

Liberals are abandoning church attendance.... and the woke church fads that spring up don't last long.
This has been my anecdotal experience as well. Younger priests are more based than older ones. The seminarians I have et seem pretty good too. The one gay seminarian that was actually a pretty good friend of my wife's suddenly abandoned the seminary when his formation was nearly complete and became a rabid church basher online after that. His point seemed to be anti-gay bigotry. Apparently, he was told something behind the curtain that he did not like. In retrospect I think he was a stealth malcontent that would have caused trouble. I think the seminary leaders must have sensed that as well.
The best way to keep evil men from wielding great power is to not create great power in the first place.
American Hardwood
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We are just going to have to disagree on that. If there is no implied judgment on policy, there would be no point to his making the statement. But in a bird's eye view, I think we agree more than we disagree on the entirety of the subject. I respect your opinion.
The best way to keep evil men from wielding great power is to not create great power in the first place.
DisAg
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I am a big believer in practice what you preach. In this case it couldn't be more relevant.
bam02
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**** this pope
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Load as many of them onto the biggest (and best) planes we have and drop them off in Vatican City.
zephyr88
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aTmAg said:

Then send them to Vatican City. I'm sure the pope will welcome them with open arms.
Woke pope need to self assess... there's literally a wall around Vatican City.



TAMU1990
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Catholic as well and I don't donate to the church either because of the politics. I don't want any of my money going towards Catholic Charities.
HDeathstar
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should be yelling twice as hard at the elected officials from the countries they are coming from. Why are you not taking care of your people. Even with the money that the USA gives you every year.
MooreTrucker
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The problem is that many many of the illegals are NOT here because of "reasons of extreme poverty, insecurity, exploitation, persecution or serious deterioration of the environment". They are serious criminals coming here to wreak more havoc in our country. The sad part is that those that fit the pope's description are swept up in the deportations. Collateral damage, I suppose, and pretty much unavoidable.
Mondemonium
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Catholics always have been in favor of any policies that results in any way in more Catholics.
Aggie Joe 93
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I haven't 'been Catholic' for about 20 years. Never have I ever seen any Catholic leader Cardinal, Pope, etc that was as humble, kind, respectful, loving (in a legal and moral sense) than my Priest in my home church.

I grew up thinking leaders should be humble servants to those they lead, and rules set up for the real benefit and pursuit of God for all. This Pope has none of those attributes.

If he was really humble he would not lecture the USA, he'd have something to say about the terrible places around the world that treat people like garbage.

If the rules apply to all why isn't he offering to house any immigrants? "You all should get along but stay away from here" isn't really Christian.

What a fraud. And I think he's just less skilled as previous Popes at hiding their hypocrisy.
RAB87
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Pope Francis is the worst pope in our lifetimes. He is a Marxist pawn who lives behind Vatican walls with armed guards - and criticizes walls and arms. Most of my fellow Catholics can't stand him.
YouBet
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Sending illegal aliens back to their home countries is not a "crisis". In what world is that a crisis?
oh no
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YouBet said:

Sending illegal aliens back to their home countries is not a "crisis". In what world is that a crisis?
Well, if you're Venezuelan and you escaped Maduro's oppressive government and tried to claim "asylum" here not just because you're poor and want free stuff and decided to take up Biden/Harris on their open invitation, but because you're actually fleeing political persecution, then returning to the country and government you renounced could get you hanged or shot for treason.

There are a lot of real criminals involved in this whole thing: from the bought and paid for corrupt globalist marxist politicians who intentionally opened the border and invited the invasion, to the sex and drug trafficking cartels who take advantage and profit off of the invitation with caravanning/trafficking services as well as depleted resources outside of the ports of entry, to the countries who released their problems- over filled prisons- to caravan over here and become our problems, to the actual criminals themselves that we have to keep trying to round up before they commit more crimes here. But there will likely be some victims of this mess - poor people who took Biden's invitation because free stuff sounds nice even though it's not really "asylum": there might be consequences if they are sent back.

All that being said, his holiness can shut his hole.
Flavius Agximus
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StandUpforAmerica said:

"Pope Francis Predicts Trump Administration's Mass Deportation Program 'Will End Badly'"
I predict teaching contrary to the gospel and traditional Catholic doctrine will end badly for this pope.
zag213004
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96AgGrad said:

Vatican City must take in a bunch of undocumented refugees.


 
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