MelvinUdall said:

---

And this conflict has become the US responsibility?

---

Trump apparently thinks so. 50% even. With the other half going to Russia.

It'll be pointless of course, Ukraine will just not acquiesce to whatever Rubio/Lavrov will cook up, but the message is pretty clear at this point. And I am usually VERY keen to "wait for all the facts to come out" kinda guy. But this is just going to be such a cluster methinks.

AgLA06 said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Teslag said:

---

The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

---

I want the best for my country. I don't see how that involves the taxpayers of another country.

Biden is gone. Maybe he can call Hunter. Or John Kerry. Or Hussein Obama.

---

Or Putin? Because some of the things said by our President and his envoys the last couple of days make it appear it's more important to be Putin's friend than to represent our country's best interests.

---

Our best interest doesn't mean allowing a former soviet state to suck our tits dry into perpetuity. All while they also send thousands of young men to their death while the powerful get rich

AgLA06 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

Teslag said:

---

The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

---

I want the best for my country. I don't see how that involves the taxpayers of another country.

Biden is gone. Maybe he can call Hunter. Or John Kerry. Or Hussein Obama.

---

Or Putin? Because some of the things said by our President and his envoys the last couple of days make it appear it's more important to be Putin's friend than to represent our country's best interests.

---

Will the left ever give up the "Trump is Putins BFF"?!

Logos Stick said:

---

LMAO at this:

"He will almost certainly be standing side by side with Xi and Putin on May 9th in Moscow. Some of you may think that's so badass (this narcissist desperately wants to be just like Putin and Xi)."

---

Tell me why this would be a bad thing? I rather enjoy watching President Trump cross the DMZ in Korea.

I guess someone people on F16 can not handle alpha masculinity

Logos Stick said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

Teslag said:

---

The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

---

I want the best for my country. I don't see how that involves the taxpayers of another country.

Biden is gone. Maybe he can call Hunter. Or John Kerry. Or Hussein Obama.

---

Or Putin? Because some of the things said by our President and his envoys the last couple of days make it appear it's more important to be Putin's friend than to represent our country's best interests.

---

Will the left ever give up the "Trump is Putins BFF"?!

---

He's not proving them incorrect this week. And far alt right is cheering it on.

Psycho Bunny said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

LMAO at this:

"He will almost certainly be standing side by side with Xi and Putin on May 9th in Moscow. Some of you may think that's so badass (this narcissist desperately wants to be just like Putin and Xi)."

---

Tell me why this would be a bad thing? I rather enjoy watching President Trump cross the DMZ in Korea.

I guess someone people on F16 can not handle alpha masculinity

---

Alpha masculinity? Is that when you stage a photo op and accomplish absolutely nothing?

DannyDuberstein said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

Teslag said:

---

The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

---

I want the best for my country. I don't see how that involves the taxpayers of another country.

Biden is gone. Maybe he can call Hunter. Or John Kerry. Or Hussein Obama.

---

Or Putin? Because some of the things said by our President and his envoys the last couple of days make it appear it's more important to be Putin's friend than to represent our country's best interests.

---

Our best interest doesn't mean allowing a former soviet state to suck our tits dry into perpetuity. All while they also send thousands of young men to their death while the powerful get rich

---

It sure as hell doesn't mean capitation to the axis of evil.

AgLA06 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

Teslag said:

---

The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

---

I want the best for my country. I don't see how that involves the taxpayers of another country.

Biden is gone. Maybe he can call Hunter. Or John Kerry. Or Hussein Obama.

---

Or Putin? Because sone of the things said by our President and his enjoys the last couple of days make it appear it's more important to be Putin's friend than to represent our country's best interests.

---

The view of what constitutes the best interests of America is different under the current administration, vs historically. Stronger ties to and cooperation with Russia are seen as key moving forward. Russia is now seen as having greater shared values with where the administration wishes to progress the US, as opposed to Europe. Trump and his cabinet members haven't been shy about that, and it can be discerned both explicitly and implicitly via their words and actions, in recent days in particular.

Times change. Get ready for a new America. This IS what MAGA America looks like. It's what Trump campaigned on, and it's what we all voted for.

GAC06 said:

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Why put boots on the ground when we can grind them down for a small fraction of one year's defense spending spent over three years?

---

Fair. That to me is a more reasonable policy decision. Then the question becomes for how long, obviously Trump says no more.

War is a classic example of the broken window fallacy. Every billion dollars we are borrowing, is coming from something else.
Let Europe pay for grinding down the ruskies. Stop paying for Europes social net and their neighborhood wars at the expense of Americans. Use our borrowed money for something that's not economically destructive.

He is a grifter. Sell him whatever he can pay cash for, at the time of the sale, then wish him good luck. Beyond that, he needs to look to European nations for anything more.

Agreed in large part. But as with our country, let's not lump all Ukrainians in the same bucket.

Those in power are not those who get sent to die. The honorable Ukrainians fighting the Russian bear with extreme valor have my full admiration and respect. I appreciate them taking whatever they can to fight a battle most would've run from.

I don't see the "leave the hanging" as rhetoric directed at the average Ukrainian soldiers (although they will bear the brunt of any resource constraint). I see it being directed at Zelensky & co. The political class who are buying supercars and enjoying dinner parties on American taxpayer dimes. Governments are supposed to serve their people, but too often support themselves instead. Nobody expects Russia to retreat, so where is the honor to the dead in sending more men into the trenches when capitulation is inevitable?

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

newbie11 said:

---

If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

---

My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

---

Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

AgLA06 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

Teslag said:

---

The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

---

I want the best for my country. I don't see how that involves the taxpayers of another country.

Biden is gone. Maybe he can call Hunter. Or John Kerry. Or Hussein Obama.

---

Or Putin? Because some of the things said by our President and his envoys the last couple of days make it appear it's more important to be Putin's friend than to represent our country's best interests.

---

Will the left ever give up the "Trump is Putins BFF"?!

---

He's not proving them incorrect this week. And far alt right is cheering it on.

---

Ok, I see that "alt right" references are also back in vouge. Libs are so predictable. BFF, Trump wants to be like Xi and alt right. Don't forget, he also called Nazis "fine people".

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

newbie11 said:

---

If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

---

My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

---

Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

---

I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

newbie11 said:

---

If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

---

My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

---

Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

---

I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

---

So then let Ukraine go on fighting the paper tiger without our tax dollars, right?

RafterAg223 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

newbie11 said:

---

If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

---

My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

---

Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

---

I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

---

So then let Ukraine go on fighting the paper tiger without our tax dollars, right?

---

I think that's a fair position if people have purely fiscal objections to supporting Ukraine.

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

newbie11 said:

---

If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

---

My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

---

Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

---

I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

---

Then this would be a good time to stop, right?
Things can change, but the sides are currently at a stalemate. Negotiate a settlement, save us some dollars.

Teslag said:

---

RafterAg223 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

newbie11 said:

---

If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

---

My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

---

Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

---

I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

---

So then let Ukraine go on fighting the paper tiger without our tax dollars, right?

---

I think that's a fair position if people have purely fiscal objections to supporting Ukraine.

---

I have fiscal objections as well as objections to supporting a clown getting filthy rich on a massive grift. You go over there and write your own checks.

Rossticus said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

Teslag said:

---

The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

---

I want the best for my country. I don't see how that involves the taxpayers of another country.

Biden is gone. Maybe he can call Hunter. Or John Kerry. Or Hussein Obama.

---

Or Putin? Because sone of the things said by our President and his enjoys the last couple of days make it appear it's more important to be Putin's friend than to represent our country's best interests.

---

The view of what constitutes the best interests of America is different under the current administration, vs historically. Stronger ties to and cooperation with Russia are seen as key moving forward. Russia is now seen as having greater shared values with where the administration wishes to progress the US, as opposed to Europe. Trump and his cabinet members haven't been shy about that, and it can be discerned both explicitly and implicitly via their words and actions, in recent days in particular.

Times change. Get ready for a new America. This IS what MAGA America looks like. It's what Trump campaigned on, and it's what we all voted for.

---

Yeah, this is what I got from my interpretations and reading between the lines from the speeches and talks from the department heads/VP recently and now Trump today.

Hegseth more or less straight admitted it. That we are abandoning Europe to go on a China first posture. He was talking militarily, but then Vance came and double downed on the culture side and Trump today came and extolled the mighty Russians. Didn't understand SecDef position as NATO would be key in a China war and ostracizing them now along with Trump being Trump is not really conducive to setting up key alliances in that coming war. Which I strongly suspect is just a matter of time at this point.

I don't remember any of this being a bullet point oddly during the campaign... though in hindsight I guess there were hints. I swear though, if Trump really does buddy up all sweet like with Putin which does seem a non-zero chance now, I am going to be....disappointed.

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

newbie11 said:

---

If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

---

My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

---

Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

---

I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

---

They may be a waning superpower, but they retain the world's largest nuclear arsenal*. The bear is well past his prime, but he has not lost all of his teeth. Dont sleep on near-peers.

*condition & deployability unknown.

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

newbie11 said:

---

If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

---

My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

---

Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

---

I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

---

Then this would be a good time to stop, right?
Things can change, but the sides are currently at a stalemate. Negotiate a settlement, save us some dollars.

---

I have said for over a year that the best thing is to freeze along current lines.

RafterAg223 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

RafterAg223 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

newbie11 said:

---

If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

---

My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

---

Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

---

I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

---

So then let Ukraine go on fighting the paper tiger without our tax dollars, right?

---

I think that's a fair position if people have purely fiscal objections to supporting Ukraine.

---

I have fiscal objections as well as objections to supporting a clown getting filthy rich on a massive grift. You go over there and write your own checks.

---

So he should have just surrendered his people to avoid being a clown? Okay.

Teslag said:

---

Eliminatus said:

---

45-70Ag said:

---

🚨BREAKING: Zelenskyy just said "He no longer feels supported by the US."

— Derrick Evans (@DerrickEvans4WV) February 18, 2025

If he truly wants the Ukrainian government to be involved in negotiations, have an open election that's monitored and whoever wins can represent Ukraine.

This clown is mad his free ride is over with president dementia.

---

Man, the brain rot is just as bad for the right as it ever was for the left. The Ukes themselves have polled strongly against holding elections right now. It is purely a talking point for those who would capitalize on it currently. An open and fair election would be impossible with nearly a million members under arms and fighting an existential war and many other citizens in occupied territory or abroad. Not to mention polling stations would absolutely draw Russian strikes. It's literally their way of war, proven countless times over three years in this war alone.

Biden and his admin ran that aid to Ukraine in the dumbest and most inefficient way possible and I am positive it was done that way on purpose. For both as a political weapon and to draw out the conflict for monetary and power gain among the players. Both right and left. Zelensky got screwed over just as much by Biden as anyone else. And if Zelensky was as corrupt as everyone alludes to, Putin would have just bought him off day one and been done with it.

Zelensky is pissed because the US just decided to unilaterally hold talks with Russia with zero invites to either Ukraine or Europe. I don't care how much of a Trump idol you are, that is f'ing stupid. Not to mention while literally giving up all the leverage we could have had in any sort of deal against Russia before the talks even began. So the US and Russia are dealing right now as we speak with the fate of Ukraine and Zelensky is purposely sidelined from the talks and he is supposed to be happy? I swear if any of yall cannot understand that basic ass concept of human interaction and dealings, I am ashamed to have graduated from the same school as you.

I am a 3x Trump voter and I knew there would be things I would disagree with each time. Well, this is one of them right off the bat. Europe is a mess, yes, and deserve to have their peepees smacked. But to spurn them completely overnight while seemingly cozying up to Russia in the same breath is gross to see and something that could possible lead to a path of long term regret IMO. I don't like where this is going personally....

---

Outstanding post

---

I think what you're seeing is a very clear policy shift. What can be debated is if it's a good shift or not. The short of it is we are moving resources to this hemisphere while additionally doing everything we can to counter China. That policy includes doing whatever we can to fracture the China and Russia bromance.

The VP didn't go over to Europe and act like a principle schooling the children for nothing. This was the adult telling the children it's time to grow up and stop acting like babies. Figure it out, we want less to do in your arena, and peace be the journey.

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

newbie11 said:

---

If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

---

My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

---

Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

---

I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

---

Then this would be a good time to stop, right?
Things can change, but the sides are currently at a stalemate. Negotiate a settlement, save us some dollars.

---

I have said for over a year that the best thing is to freeze along current lines.

---

I think this is Trumps point of view as well, he's looking at it in a very fiscal lens.

Jugstore Cowboy said:

---

It's so sad whenever an actor comedian selected by the intelligence cartel doesn't feel like we're fully committed to an unending war of attrition with no clear attainable objectives or realistic standard for peace.

---

FIFY

Although there are a few comics I'd let run a country. Dennis Miller. Bill Burr. Dave Chapelle. RIPs to Norm Macdonald and George Carlin - they would've made my list.

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

newbie11 said:

---

If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

---

My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

---

Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

---

I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

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Then it makes little sense to waste our money and Ukraine lives to grind them down. The threat is China, not Russia. Always has been.

Eliminatus said:

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Rossticus said:

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AgLA06 said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Teslag said:

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The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

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I want the best for my country. I don't see how that involves the taxpayers of another country.

Biden is gone. Maybe he can call Hunter. Or John Kerry. Or Hussein Obama.

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Or Putin? Because sone of the things said by our President and his enjoys the last couple of days make it appear it's more important to be Putin's friend than to represent our country's best interests.

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The view of what constitutes the best interests of America is different under the current administration, vs historically. Stronger ties to and cooperation with Russia are seen as key moving forward. Russia is now seen as having greater shared values with where the administration wishes to progress the US, as opposed to Europe. Trump and his cabinet members haven't been shy about that, and it can be discerned both explicitly and implicitly via their words and actions, in recent days in particular.

Times change. Get ready for a new America. This IS what MAGA America looks like. It's what Trump campaigned on, and it's what we all voted for.

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Yeah, this is what I got from my interpretations and reading between the lines from the speeches and talks from the department heads/VP recently and now Trump today.

Hegseth more or less straight admitted it. That we are abandoning Europe to go on a China first posture. He was talking militarily, but then Vance came and double downed on the culture side and Trump today came and extolled the mighty Russians. Didn't understand SecDef position as NATO would be key in a China war and ostracizing them now along with Trump being Trump is not really conducive to setting up key alliances in that coming war. Which I strongly suspect is just a matter of time at this point.

I don't remember any of this being a bullet point oddly during the campaign... though in hindsight I guess there were hints. I swear though, if Trump really does buddy up all sweet like with Putin which does seem a non-zero chance now, I am going to be....disappointed.

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My goals align far more with a Christian in Russia than with a Globalist in Belgium. Europe has left western values while Russia has (in part) shifted toward them. At some point you've gotta reassess relationships. Europe may be on a worse trajectory than Russia at this point.

RafterAg223 said:

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Teslag said:

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RafterAg223 said:

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Teslag said:

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RafterAg223 said:

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Teslag said:

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deddog said:

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Teslag said:

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deddog said:

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Teslag said:

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deddog said:

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newbie11 said:

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If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

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Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

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None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

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My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

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If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

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Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

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I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

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So then let Ukraine go on fighting the paper tiger without our tax dollars, right?

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I think that's a fair position if people have purely fiscal objections to supporting Ukraine.

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I have fiscal objections as well as objections to supporting a clown getting filthy rich on a massive grift. You go over there and write your own checks.

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So he should have just surrendered his people to avoid being a clown? Okay.

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His people have been going to beaches and night clubs the entire time this war has been going on. Get a grip. No one can take you seriously. You are the same person that touted a bunk shot as a freaking miracle cure. You'll fall for anything.

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Right, no one did anything fun during WW2

Logos Stick said:

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Teslag said:

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deddog said:

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Teslag said:

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deddog said:

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Teslag said:

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deddog said:

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newbie11 said:

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If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

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Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

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None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

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My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

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If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

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Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

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I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

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Then it makes little sense to waste our money and Ukraine lives to grind them down. The threat is China, not Russia. Always has been.

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This is a fair take as well. I think people can easily make arguments like this without justifying Russia's actions and castigating Zelenskyy for simply resisting an invasion.

Agree?

Teslag said:

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RafterAg223 said:

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Teslag said:

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RafterAg223 said:

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Teslag said:

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RafterAg223 said:

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Teslag said:

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deddog said:

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Teslag said:

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deddog said:

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Teslag said:

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deddog said:

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newbie11 said:

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If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

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My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

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Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

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I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

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So then let Ukraine go on fighting the paper tiger without our tax dollars, right?

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I think that's a fair position if people have purely fiscal objections to supporting Ukraine.

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I have fiscal objections as well as objections to supporting a clown getting filthy rich on a massive grift. You go over there and write your own checks.

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So he should have just surrendered his people to avoid being a clown? Okay.

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His people have been going to beaches and night clubs the entire time this war has been going on. Get a grip. No one can take you seriously. You are the same person that touted a bunk shot as a freaking miracle cure. You'll fall for anything.

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Right, no one did anything fun during WW2

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We know, you love this war. You've bought into what the rinos and the left side of the aisle and the military industrial complex has sold you on this. I'm sure you wear a Ukrainian flag on each lapel. This has been a massive waste of US taxpayer money and military resources against an adversary you admit is no longer a superpower and is absolutely zero threat of taking this aggression further West. How invested in this war are you?

My question...what dirt does Putin have on Trump. He is KGB trained remember. Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave right now. We are snatching defeat from the jaws of victory over one of the charter members of the Axis of Evil.

Teslag said:

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The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

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Why should my tax dollars line his pocket? Isn't this the same argument made for Iraq and Afghanistan.....tax payer dollars being wasted?

Teslag said:

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The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

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Do you want American troops/NATO in this fight. This is unwinnable for Ukraine and more people are dying because of our support