nortex97 said:

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The whole point is that they aren't really. DAF grants, overhead costs, housing allowances, you name it. But you'd not know that as you haven't followed data republican or Mike Benz on x.

---

You have literally no idea what you're talking about. You can find the audit reports yourself.

knoxtom said:

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So to answer the OPs question, Zelensky did one thing which could be viewed as provocation for the invasion. When Russia took Crimea Zelensky did something that could be viewed as cruel and something Putin pledged to fix.

Crimea has no water supply at all. There is no river feeding the area, no reservoir, no significant rainfall. Water WAS supplied to Crimea through a concrete canal coming from Ukraine. When Russia took Crimea, Zelensky filled this canal with concrete and shut it off. He gave a big finger to the mostly innocent residents of Crimea.

Afterwards, Putin was trucking in water for the residents and blamed Zelensky for the deaths and suffering the Crimeans endured.

A lot of this falls on Obama for failing to respond to the Crimean invasion. Russia took Crimea for the oil and nothing more and Obama should have stopped them, but he ignored it. Since Zelensky couldn't do anything to stop Russia back then (this was pre-drone) he did a kinda cruel thing to the Crimean population. Putin of course blames Zelensky for responding to his oil grab.

---

Thanks for this.

Quote:

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Quote:

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The NATO thing is a news blurb that wouldn't have ever happened. This was discussed many times within the COG and with Obama, Trump1, and Biden. All agreed that NATO was not accepting Ukraine because NATO has the defense pact and they were all worried it would start WWIII as everyone knew Putin was coming after Donbras and the new Ukrainian oil fields. You see... Ukraine has enough oil to start a new oil nation state. They have Iran, Iraq, Kuwait levels of reserves. Putin owns Russia's oil and he doesn't want new competition, he wants it for himself.

---

---

Ukraine is the bread basket of Eastern Europe, and a good chunk of Africa. Don't forget that. I am sure that Putin wants all of Ukraine. If Putin gets all of Ukraine, Trump has failed.

Quote:

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Quote:

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Putin wants a few other things out of Ukraine. He wants control of the german pipeline. He wants to have his defensive border with Poland moved to the space between the mountains near Lviv. Tanks cannot cross the mountains north of there or south of there so his border with the NATO countries will shrink by 1500 miles and be WAY more defensible. Ukraine is hard to defend, the Poland gap is not. Putin wants ALL of Ukraine and he will eventually get it if we pull out or "broker" a deal.

---

---

I don't believe you on the bold part. That's like, just your opinion, man.

Quote:

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When it all started pretty much everyone knew the eventual solution would be that Donbras and the Russian sympathizers would be switching to Russia and Ukraine would keep the rest of their country. Now it looks like Trump is making a trade of more of Ukraine in exchange for Putin ignoring our grab at Greenland and the Canal.

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WHAT? Pure speculation. How much money do you want to bet that this will not actually happen? This is pure fantasy.

VIVA WOLVARINES!!!

Quote:

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Quote:

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This stuff is ALWAYS about the cash. Putin wants the oil cash for himself. Trump doesn't care about Ukraine in any way shape or form, he wants the Greenland resources. Biden wanted to partner with Zelensky and have American oil companies do the work on the Ukrainian fields. Obama didn't realize how much oil we are talking about here and ignored it. Cash, Cash, Cash.

---

---

Once you get to a certain state, it is not always about the cash. Twitter at $44B was a bad, bad deal if it was all about the cash, for example.

Quote:

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The stick in the spokes in all of these money grabs came from Zelensky's rapid drone development. He wasn't supposed to stop the Russians but he almost overnight rendered their military superiority obsolete with drone attacks. When all is said and done, no matter who eventually gets the cash, the big lesson from all of this is that Zelensky made every other weapon except nukes obsolete overnight. Planes, armies, navies, tanks, everything is worthless now because he used drones so well. 100 years from now the Ukrainian invasion will be looked at as the day the world changed. There are no more strong military nations as a single terror group with mid level AI and 1000 drones can take out any billion dollar aircraft carrier they want. A tank battalion cannot stand against 1000 drones anymore. This invasion changed it all.

---

I agree with you that modern warefare has changed dramatically thanks to this invasion. I find the topic fascinating. But, much of the failure of the invasion was Putin's own hubris. He employed the tactics that the US employed against Iraq, twice, when those tactics were outdated. He stretched his supply lines too thin, moved too fast, and showed his weakness compared to US military.

Very good post with some really crazy positions mixed in. The best lies are always a sandwich of truth, lie, truth.

No one wants Putin to get all of Ukraine, and Trump will not trade Ukraine for the Panama Canal and Greenland. Very silly war-porn fantasy stuff.

Teslag said:

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Quote:

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Calling Donbas and Crimea a DMZ and telling everyone to stop, right now, is the best thing for the American tax payer. It is what we should do.

---

And if this isn't acceptable to Russia? (Because just this won't be)

---

Maybe it will be, maybe it won't.

But that is the best negotiated position we can hope for.

I don't think anyone will accept Ukraine completely run by Russia, including Trump, the American tax payer, or the Ukraine.

If Trump brokers this deal, what will your opinion of Trump be?

nortex97 said:

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The whole point is that they aren't really. DAF grants, overhead costs, housing allowances, you name it. But you'd not know that as you haven't followed data republican or Mike Benz on x.

---

Hey man, Mike Benz is just some guy that worked for the state department and has been blowing the whistle on this **** for a decade. Hullabaloo is rational and has non Twitter sources.

BusterAg said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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BusterAg said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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A dictator elected with 74% of the vote? In an actual fair election unlike Russia? Interesting definition of dictator.

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What about the last schedule election in Ukraine in 2024? How did Z fair in that one?

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Russia invaded and required them to go under martial law, in which they are not permitted to hold elections. Once Russia stops their unprovoked invasion, Ukraine will hold another election and your question will be answered if he decides to run again.

---

Putin is an evil man and I hope he dies a terrible death.

Thanks for this.

Can you cite to some authority about Ukraine not being permitted to hold elections in 2024?

---

Sure thing, here's a pretty good recent summary:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/20/ukraine-elections-start-of-war-volodymyr-zelenskyy

Quote:

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Under Ukraine's constitution, it is not legal to hold national elections during a period of martial law. This Foreign Policy article from 2023 outlines practical impediments that largely still hold today.

The disruption from air raids has made organisation and vote counting impossible, as well as bringing obvious risks if large numbers have to congregate at polling stations. Voters in the eastern areas worst affected by the war or occupied would be disenfranchised against those living in the west. After mass internal displacement and many people leaving the country altogether, there is no system in place for absentee voting and no recent update to the national voter registry. And any resources spent on resolving these issues are taken away from the country's defence.

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Hullabaloonatic said:

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HowdyTexasAggies said:

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Hullabaloonatic said:

---

nortex97 said:

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Yes, it all works out splendidly just like that in pattern and practice, as Mr. Stewart so eloquently laid out.

I can’t believe this is real

Millions of US Taxpayer dollars are being sent by USAID to a British Politician turned Yale Professors wife’s NGO called ‘Turquoise Mountain Foundation’

“The Turquoise Mountain Foundation exists to teach Afghani peasants about degenerate modern art” pic.twitter.com/0jG2WCH9va

— Wall Street Apes (@WallStreetApes) February 18, 2025

---

You're going to make me do your homework for you? Pro tip: if your news source is twitter, you're being deliberately misinformed.

This whole thing is a soup of non sense, so i'll try to untangle the brain worm that twitter dropped in your mind.

Quote:

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"The Turqoise Mountain Foundation exists to teach Afghani peasants about degenerate modern art"

---

A 10 second google search can take you to the original USAID Fact Sheet for the Turquoise Mountain Foundation (here). The contract, which was granted well before Rory Stewart even met Shoshana Stewart (she was married to someone else), in 2008. She has been the CEO of the charity organization for almost 20 years and the objectives of the project was to provide education and training, economic opportunities, and livelihoods for Afghans. Specifically, 1) build economic and trade opportunities for Afghans through the economic, social and cultural regeneration of Murad Khane, a traditional commercial and craft neighborhood in the center of Kabul's Old City; 2) provide traditional craft education through the Turquoise Mountain Institute for Afghan Arts and Architecture; 3) develop a market for Afghan crafts domestically and internationally through business mentoring, marketing and sales support. The list of accomplishments:

• Established an internationally recognized brand, profiled in over 100 international publications, that sold almost $3 million worth of Afghan crafts to markets in Asia, Europe, North America and the Middle East
• Enhanced Afghanistan's reputation as a source of high-quality products
• Provided direct education, employment and healthcare services to 64,246 Afghans, and indirectly reached approximately over 300,000 beneficiaries
• Provided supplementary educationincluding art and language classes to a total of 122 children (68 boys and 54 girls) between the ages of five and 14
• Graduated 144 students (107 male and 37 female) from the Turquoise Mountain Institute over four years, of whom 24 percent owned their own craft businesses, 52 percent worked in craft-related employment, 13 percent were pursuing further studies, and 11 percent were not in formal employment

Just read the list of accomplishments and tell me why none of these were mentioned? Perhaps it doesn't fit the narrative?

This also had the intended objective of westernizing Afghani citizens (a worthwhile objective, no?). That 30 second clip regarding the 'toilet art' was snipped from a 2015 documentary "Bitter Lake." While absurd on its face, you can google Marcel Duchamp and see the intended purpose of the exhibit (which was in the early 1900s) was intended to be farcical. Out of context, it simply looks bizarre, but when teaching history of western art, the "Fountain" is historically relevant because of the explicit absurdity. It's just a single touchstone however. That twitter clip, implying the entire purpose of the project is to teach 'toilet art' to Afghani peasants (a crude pejorative meant to 'other' these people) is simply a lie.

Stop getting your news from twitter. Possess just the slightest amount of skepticism and do even a miniscule amount of fact checking before sharing stuff like this. Musk and Trump are firing off lie after lie after lie and you can't simply accept them at face value.

---

I don't give a crap what they are working on or what BS accomplishments they fabricate. The fact is our country is bankrupt and shouldn't be spending a dime on waste like this. If you want to send your own money to this fine. However, I and many other are stick and tired of paying for your stupid *****

---

Fabricate? These USAID projects are audited by independent PA firms on a yearly basis. And this aid was budgeted and approved by Congress. If you have an issue with the funding of any specific USAID contract, contact your representative and voice your opinion.

---

I have a problem with every single contract in USAID until proven otherwise. We shouldn't continue to play empire builder. And the fraud is so apparent thanks to Burisma.

How in the hell do you think all of those homes in DC got to be so expensive? $180,000 / yr salaries?

Your defense of USAID is not going to work. There was way too much obfuscation to be legitimate. Congresspeople should not be on the boards of NGOs that get federal funding.

Hullabaloonatic said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

The whole point is that they aren't really. DAF grants, overhead costs, housing allowances, you name it. But you'd not know that as you haven't followed data republican or Mike Benz on x.

---

You have literally no idea what you're talking about. You can find the audit reports yourself.

---

Audit reports! Well that solves everything!

BusterAg said:

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aTmAg said:

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The Cuban missile crisis is a TERRIBLE example. Again, those missile were FIRST STRIKE nukes. That is like somebody pointing a gun at your head rather than merely them strapping a gun to their hip.

Bin Laden ATTACKED us and Saddam was violating the terms of his previous surrender (in which he attacked Kuwait). All of these are in RESPONSE to violent action. Putin invading Ukraine was not.

---

Putin is and evil man, and I hope he dies a miserable death.

NATO at Russia's door is the same thing as first strike missiles in Cuba. Super easy to Nuke Russia from Poland. A NATO country on Russia's doorstep gives NATO the obligation to Nuke Russia for any conflict between Ukraine and Russia. If a crazy Ukrainian dictator rises to power and starts aggression against Russia, we are looking at a real WWIII scenario.

NATO in Ukraine is not just similar to nukes in Cuba, it is almost exactly the same thing.

---

WRONG. Total BS. You guys are taking crazy pills.

Finland is in NATO. They are on the border with Russia too. Does that mean that Russia has the "right" to invade Finland now? HELL NO.

And I've explained twice how nukes and Cuba are NOTHING like Ukraine asking to be a member of NATO. Hell it's not even close to be actually IN NATO. I guess I need to explain it with crayon now:

Cuban missiles : pointing a gun at somebody :: joining NATO : strapping a gun to your belt.

If some dude points a gun at somebody, the police shoot that dude immediately. No hesitation. Yet if a dude walks up to a cop with a gun strapped to his belt, the cops do NOTHING.

The Soviets putting LIQUID fueled nuke missiles in Cuba is like pointing a gun at us. Them putting solid fueled nukes or having nuclear subs in international water is like strapping a gun.

Hullabaloonatic said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

The whole point is that they aren't really. DAF grants, overhead costs, housing allowances, you name it. But you'd not know that as you haven't followed data republican or Mike Benz on x.

---

You have literally no idea what you're talking about. You can find the audit reports yourself.

---

You could also post them on the USAID thread. But, this subject is off topic for this thread.

Generalized, non-specific arguments without support are not appreciated here.

BusterAg said:

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Hullabaloonatic said:

---

nortex97 said:

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The whole point is that they aren't really. DAF grants, overhead costs, housing allowances, you name it. But you'd not know that as you haven't followed data republican or Mike Benz on x.

---

You have literally no idea what you're talking about. You can find the audit reports yourself.

---

You could also post them on the USAID thread. But, this subject is off topic for this thread.

Generalized, non-specific arguments without support are not appreciated here.

---

You are the one who literally brought up USAID to this conversation. here

Quote:

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So, you trust Ukraine and USAID more? These are not paragons of virtue that you are talking about here.

---

That is a pretty generalized, non specific argument without support.

rgvag11 said:

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titan said:

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rgvag11 said:

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titan said:

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Rossticus said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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Teslag said:

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BusterAg said:

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Teslag said:

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Agreed. A lot of the pro Russian posters here always casually hand wave away the pure hatred many Ukrainians have for Russians. **** like that isn't forgotten.

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How many of them live in Donbas or Crimea?

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If this war were only about Donbas and Crimea it would have been over in 2022.

---

Many people have suggested that Putin would have gladly taken those territories and stopped. But Blinken et al had 2 more years of grift planned and weren't ready to stop.

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Russia constitutionally annexed 4 whole oblasts and tried to take out the government in Kyiv in the early months of the war. Their actions at the jump indicate that weren't content with a sliver of east Ukraine and had far broader goals.

---

Yes, its pretty clear that "that time has passed" moment had been reached with Putin. Earlier it might have been worked out, or if Trump had taken office in 2021 the hold-off from invasion would have continued.

But is it really in question the opening looked like going for removing the government or forcing its collapse?

---

Why? What do you think Putin's reasoning would have been to hold-off the invasion?

---

Same reason didn't 2016-2020. Trump's reaction is unpredictable and unlikely to be mild. Also, Trump may well have done what the mobilization required -- a flat unambiguous declaration that a "Saddam 1990" act won't be put up with. He certainly would not have implied invading could be okay in certain circumstances as was done, or just kind of draw them offside by talking weasel-words.

---

This is a very silly position. Putin is not intimidated by Trump. The recent events make that clear to anyone paying attention.

---

IF you believe the MSM version of Trump which derives from Hillary's take. Your just declaring that sounds silly

Facts trump impressions. With things like Soleamani just eliminated, the world probably got the impression you can't count on restraint from us. The fact is that 2016-2020 didn't see any incursions and you had a historic peace deal as well in the Mideast. I very much doubt Oct 7 Israel would have happened on his watch either.

Don't forget that Putin has now literally put nukes in Belarus. Does that mean that Poland and NATO would be justified in and should invade Belarus? I mean, NUKES AT NATO BORDERS!

NATO is only a threat to Russia if Russia takes action against a NATO country. This is why Ukraine in NATO is a "threat". Not because it's an inherent existential threat to Russia but because it's a threat to prevent Russia from screwing with Ukraine and molding them into Belarus.

Hullabaloonatic said:

---

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

Hullabaloonatic said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Yes, it all works out splendidly just like that in pattern and practice, as Mr. Stewart so eloquently laid out.

I can’t believe this is real

Millions of US Taxpayer dollars are being sent by USAID to a British Politician turned Yale Professors wife’s NGO called ‘Turquoise Mountain Foundation’

“The Turquoise Mountain Foundation exists to teach Afghani peasants about degenerate modern art” pic.twitter.com/0jG2WCH9va

— Wall Street Apes (@WallStreetApes) February 18, 2025

---

You're going to make me do your homework for you? Pro tip: if your news source is twitter, you're being deliberately misinformed.

This whole thing is a soup of non sense, so i'll try to untangle the brain worm that twitter dropped in your mind.

Quote:

---

"The Turqoise Mountain Foundation exists to teach Afghani peasants about degenerate modern art"

---

A 10 second google search can take you to the original USAID Fact Sheet for the Turquoise Mountain Foundation (here). The contract, which was granted well before Rory Stewart even met Shoshana Stewart (she was married to someone else), in 2008. She has been the CEO of the charity organization for almost 20 years and the objectives of the project was to provide education and training, economic opportunities, and livelihoods for Afghans. Specifically, 1) build economic and trade opportunities for Afghans through the economic, social and cultural regeneration of Murad Khane, a traditional commercial and craft neighborhood in the center of Kabul's Old City; 2) provide traditional craft education through the Turquoise Mountain Institute for Afghan Arts and Architecture; 3) develop a market for Afghan crafts domestically and internationally through business mentoring, marketing and sales support. The list of accomplishments:

• Established an internationally recognized brand, profiled in over 100 international publications, that sold almost $3 million worth of Afghan crafts to markets in Asia, Europe, North America and the Middle East
• Enhanced Afghanistan's reputation as a source of high-quality products
• Provided direct education, employment and healthcare services to 64,246 Afghans, and indirectly reached approximately over 300,000 beneficiaries
• Provided supplementary educationincluding art and language classes to a total of 122 children (68 boys and 54 girls) between the ages of five and 14
• Graduated 144 students (107 male and 37 female) from the Turquoise Mountain Institute over four years, of whom 24 percent owned their own craft businesses, 52 percent worked in craft-related employment, 13 percent were pursuing further studies, and 11 percent were not in formal employment

Just read the list of accomplishments and tell me why none of these were mentioned? Perhaps it doesn't fit the narrative?

This also had the intended objective of westernizing Afghani citizens (a worthwhile objective, no?). That 30 second clip regarding the 'toilet art' was snipped from a 2015 documentary "Bitter Lake." While absurd on its face, you can google Marcel Duchamp and see the intended purpose of the exhibit (which was in the early 1900s) was intended to be farcical. Out of context, it simply looks bizarre, but when teaching history of western art, the "Fountain" is historically relevant because of the explicit absurdity. It's just a single touchstone however. That twitter clip, implying the entire purpose of the project is to teach 'toilet art' to Afghani peasants (a crude pejorative meant to 'other' these people) is simply a lie.

Stop getting your news from twitter. Possess just the slightest amount of skepticism and do even a miniscule amount of fact checking before sharing stuff like this. Musk and Trump are firing off lie after lie after lie and you can't simply accept them at face value.

---

I don't give a crap what they are working on or what BS accomplishments they fabricate. The fact is our country is bankrupt and shouldn't be spending a dime on waste like this. If you want to send your own money to this fine. However, I and many other are stick and tired of paying for your stupid *****

---

Fabricate? These USAID projects are audited by independent PA firms on a yearly basis. And this aid was budgeted and approved by Congress. If you have an issue with the funding of any specific USAID contract, contact your representative and voice your opinion.

---

I don't have to call anyone; Trump is doing it for me. The auditors are frauds as well, that's part of how they get away with it. Congress is complicit and Trump is fixing that as well. Glad you are ok with our country being bankrupt. Also, you must not pay any taxes.

Point conceded until I find other information. Thank you for the link.

That doesn't mean that Z isn't a tick. I will give Z mad props if he actually comes to the table and brokers a peace deal. Way more props than if he sticks to his position that the war should continue until Donbas and Crimea are retaken.

BusterAg said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

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Calling Donbas and Crimea a DMZ and telling everyone to stop, right now, is the best thing for the American tax payer. It is what we should do.

---

And if this isn't acceptable to Russia? (Because just this won't be)

---

Maybe it will be, maybe it won't.

But that is the best negotiated position we can hope for.

I don't think anyone will accept Ukraine completely run by Russia, including Trump, the American tax payer, or the Ukraine.

If Trump brokers this deal, what will your opinion of Trump be?

---

Depends on the deal. I had hopes he would broker an actual deal. One that requires both sides give up something. And one that prevents any future aggression.

Rossticus said:

---

Don't forget that Putin has now literally put nukes in Belarus. Does that mean that Poland and NATO would be justified in and should invade Belarus? I mean, NUKES AT NATO BORDERS!

NATO is only a threat to Russia if Russia takes action against a NATO country. This is why Ukraine in NATO is a "threat". Not because it's an inherent existential threat to Russia but because it's a threat to prevent Russia from screwing with Ukraine and molding them into Belarus.

---

Putin can launch Nukes from Siberia and hit Washington DC.

It's not about where nukes are. It's about strategic defense alliances.

If Russia stated that any defense of the remainder of Ukraine would result in nuclear war, that would be a problem.

Teslag said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Quote:

---

Calling Donbas and Crimea a DMZ and telling everyone to stop, right now, is the best thing for the American tax payer. It is what we should do.

---

And if this isn't acceptable to Russia? (Because just this won't be)

---

Maybe it will be, maybe it won't.

But that is the best negotiated position we can hope for.

I don't think anyone will accept Ukraine completely run by Russia, including Trump, the American tax payer, or the Ukraine.

If Trump brokers this deal, what will your opinion of Trump be?

---

Depends on the deal. I had hopes he would broker an actual deal. One that requires both sides give up something. And one that prevents any future aggression.

---

A Donbas/Crimea demilitarized zone would be a HUGE concession by Russia, since they could crush Ukraine without Western support.

I think that if Ukraine was given hard security guarantees and allowed to maintain a robust military to prevent future Russian ****ery then he'd probably cede Crimea and a decent chunk of territory.

The problem is that Russia, and us to an extent, want them to cede that AND be content with what amounts to Russia promising not to do it again. Russia is sticking to their demands that Ukraine basically have a Military in name only and no country in NATO is permitted to provide substantial security guarantees.

On this, I think you misunderstood his meaning. I think he means Putin's ideal desire would be to have all Ukraine in the Russian Commonwealth, and that is most likely true. He would probably settle for it being reliably neutral or a co-supplier in his oil and power game. But that he would want it and the breadbasket seems beyond doubt. So what he is saying is if we broker a deal that leaves things too weak and unsettled, he will eventually find a way to take the rest. He is not saying we are plotting to give all of Ukraine away.

Quote:

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Putin wants a few other things out of Ukraine. He wants control of the german pipeline. He wants to have his defensive border with Poland moved to the space between the mountains near Lviv. Tanks cannot cross the mountains north of there or south of there so his border with the NATO countries will shrink by 1500 miles and be WAY more defensible. Ukraine is hard to defend, the Poland gap is not. Putin wants ALL of Ukraine and he will eventually get it if we pull out or "broker" a deal.

---

BusterAg said:

---

Rossticus said:

---

Don't forget that Putin has now literally put nukes in Belarus. Does that mean that Poland and NATO would be justified in and should invade Belarus? I mean, NUKES AT NATO BORDERS!

NATO is only a threat to Russia if Russia takes action against a NATO country. This is why Ukraine in NATO is a "threat". Not because it's an inherent existential threat to Russia but because it's a threat to prevent Russia from screwing with Ukraine and molding them into Belarus.

---

Putin can launch Nukes from Siberia and hit Washington DC.

It's not about where nukes are. It's about strategic defense alliances.

If Russia stated that any defense of the remainder of Ukraine would result in nuclear war, that would be a problem.

---

Yet you just said:

"NATO at Russia's door is the same thing as first strike missiles in Cuba. Super easy to Nuke Russia from Poland. A NATO country on Russia's doorstep gives NATO the obligation to Nuke Russia for any conflict between Ukraine and Russia. If a crazy Ukrainian dictator rises to power and starts aggression against Russia, we are looking at a real WWIII scenario.

NATO in Ukraine is not just similar to nukes in Cuba, it is almost exactly the same thing."

Quote:

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There are no good guys or bad guys but some are better than others.

--Teslag

---

Thanks for the link to this thread.

But, at least there were more stars for the hope that both sides lose. That is the post I starred, at least.

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

Hullabaloonatic said:

---

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

Hullabaloonatic said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Yes, it all works out splendidly just like that in pattern and practice, as Mr. Stewart so eloquently laid out.

I can’t believe this is real

Millions of US Taxpayer dollars are being sent by USAID to a British Politician turned Yale Professors wife’s NGO called ‘Turquoise Mountain Foundation’

“The Turquoise Mountain Foundation exists to teach Afghani peasants about degenerate modern art” pic.twitter.com/0jG2WCH9va

— Wall Street Apes (@WallStreetApes) February 18, 2025

---

You're going to make me do your homework for you? Pro tip: if your news source is twitter, you're being deliberately misinformed.

This whole thing is a soup of non sense, so i'll try to untangle the brain worm that twitter dropped in your mind.

Quote:

---

"The Turqoise Mountain Foundation exists to teach Afghani peasants about degenerate modern art"

---

A 10 second google search can take you to the original USAID Fact Sheet for the Turquoise Mountain Foundation (here). The contract, which was granted well before Rory Stewart even met Shoshana Stewart (she was married to someone else), in 2008. She has been the CEO of the charity organization for almost 20 years and the objectives of the project was to provide education and training, economic opportunities, and livelihoods for Afghans. Specifically, 1) build economic and trade opportunities for Afghans through the economic, social and cultural regeneration of Murad Khane, a traditional commercial and craft neighborhood in the center of Kabul's Old City; 2) provide traditional craft education through the Turquoise Mountain Institute for Afghan Arts and Architecture; 3) develop a market for Afghan crafts domestically and internationally through business mentoring, marketing and sales support. The list of accomplishments:

• Established an internationally recognized brand, profiled in over 100 international publications, that sold almost $3 million worth of Afghan crafts to markets in Asia, Europe, North America and the Middle East
• Enhanced Afghanistan's reputation as a source of high-quality products
• Provided direct education, employment and healthcare services to 64,246 Afghans, and indirectly reached approximately over 300,000 beneficiaries
• Provided supplementary educationincluding art and language classes to a total of 122 children (68 boys and 54 girls) between the ages of five and 14
• Graduated 144 students (107 male and 37 female) from the Turquoise Mountain Institute over four years, of whom 24 percent owned their own craft businesses, 52 percent worked in craft-related employment, 13 percent were pursuing further studies, and 11 percent were not in formal employment

Just read the list of accomplishments and tell me why none of these were mentioned? Perhaps it doesn't fit the narrative?

This also had the intended objective of westernizing Afghani citizens (a worthwhile objective, no?). That 30 second clip regarding the 'toilet art' was snipped from a 2015 documentary "Bitter Lake." While absurd on its face, you can google Marcel Duchamp and see the intended purpose of the exhibit (which was in the early 1900s) was intended to be farcical. Out of context, it simply looks bizarre, but when teaching history of western art, the "Fountain" is historically relevant because of the explicit absurdity. It's just a single touchstone however. That twitter clip, implying the entire purpose of the project is to teach 'toilet art' to Afghani peasants (a crude pejorative meant to 'other' these people) is simply a lie.

Stop getting your news from twitter. Possess just the slightest amount of skepticism and do even a miniscule amount of fact checking before sharing stuff like this. Musk and Trump are firing off lie after lie after lie and you can't simply accept them at face value.

---

I don't give a crap what they are working on or what BS accomplishments they fabricate. The fact is our country is bankrupt and shouldn't be spending a dime on waste like this. If you want to send your own money to this fine. However, I and many other are stick and tired of paying for your stupid *****

---

Fabricate? These USAID projects are audited by independent PA firms on a yearly basis. And this aid was budgeted and approved by Congress. If you have an issue with the funding of any specific USAID contract, contact your representative and voice your opinion.

---

I don't have to call anyone; Trump is doing it for me. The auditors are frauds as well, that's part of how they get away with it. Congress is complicit and Trump is fixing that as well. Glad you are ok with our country being bankrupt. Also, you must not pay any taxes.

---

lol gotcha. Independent accounting firms are frauds. Humanitarian workers are frauds. Only Trump, the man who literally calls himself King, is honest.

And thanks to Trump, I will be paying less taxes! Huzzah!

GAC06 said:

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BusterAg said:

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Rossticus said:

---

Don't forget that Putin has now literally put nukes in Belarus. Does that mean that Poland and NATO would be justified in and should invade Belarus? I mean, NUKES AT NATO BORDERS!

NATO is only a threat to Russia if Russia takes action against a NATO country. This is why Ukraine in NATO is a "threat". Not because it's an inherent existential threat to Russia but because it's a threat to prevent Russia from screwing with Ukraine and molding them into Belarus.

---

Putin can launch Nukes from Siberia and hit Washington DC.

It's not about where nukes are. It's about strategic defense alliances.

If Russia stated that any defense of the remainder of Ukraine would result in nuclear war, that would be a problem.

---

Yet you just said:

"NATO at Russia's door is the same thing as first strike missiles in Cuba. Super easy to Nuke Russia from Poland. A NATO country on Russia's doorstep gives NATO the obligation to Nuke Russia for any conflict between Ukraine and Russia. If a crazy Ukrainian dictator rises to power and starts aggression against Russia, we are looking at a real WWIII scenario.

NATO in Ukraine is not just similar to nukes in Cuba, it is almost exactly the same thing."

---

My positions are not in conflict with eachother. I don't know why you can't see that.

BusterAg said:

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Hullabaloonatic said:

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HowdyTexasAggies said:

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Hullabaloonatic said:

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nortex97 said:

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Yes, it all works out splendidly just like that in pattern and practice, as Mr. Stewart so eloquently laid out.

I can’t believe this is real

Millions of US Taxpayer dollars are being sent by USAID to a British Politician turned Yale Professors wife’s NGO called ‘Turquoise Mountain Foundation’

“The Turquoise Mountain Foundation exists to teach Afghani peasants about degenerate modern art” pic.twitter.com/0jG2WCH9va

— Wall Street Apes (@WallStreetApes) February 18, 2025

---

You're going to make me do your homework for you? Pro tip: if your news source is twitter, you're being deliberately misinformed.

This whole thing is a soup of non sense, so i'll try to untangle the brain worm that twitter dropped in your mind.

Quote:

---

"The Turqoise Mountain Foundation exists to teach Afghani peasants about degenerate modern art"

---

A 10 second google search can take you to the original USAID Fact Sheet for the Turquoise Mountain Foundation (here). The contract, which was granted well before Rory Stewart even met Shoshana Stewart (she was married to someone else), in 2008. She has been the CEO of the charity organization for almost 20 years and the objectives of the project was to provide education and training, economic opportunities, and livelihoods for Afghans. Specifically, 1) build economic and trade opportunities for Afghans through the economic, social and cultural regeneration of Murad Khane, a traditional commercial and craft neighborhood in the center of Kabul's Old City; 2) provide traditional craft education through the Turquoise Mountain Institute for Afghan Arts and Architecture; 3) develop a market for Afghan crafts domestically and internationally through business mentoring, marketing and sales support. The list of accomplishments:

• Established an internationally recognized brand, profiled in over 100 international publications, that sold almost $3 million worth of Afghan crafts to markets in Asia, Europe, North America and the Middle East
• Enhanced Afghanistan's reputation as a source of high-quality products
• Provided direct education, employment and healthcare services to 64,246 Afghans, and indirectly reached approximately over 300,000 beneficiaries
• Provided supplementary educationincluding art and language classes to a total of 122 children (68 boys and 54 girls) between the ages of five and 14
• Graduated 144 students (107 male and 37 female) from the Turquoise Mountain Institute over four years, of whom 24 percent owned their own craft businesses, 52 percent worked in craft-related employment, 13 percent were pursuing further studies, and 11 percent were not in formal employment

Just read the list of accomplishments and tell me why none of these were mentioned? Perhaps it doesn't fit the narrative?

This also had the intended objective of westernizing Afghani citizens (a worthwhile objective, no?). That 30 second clip regarding the 'toilet art' was snipped from a 2015 documentary "Bitter Lake." While absurd on its face, you can google Marcel Duchamp and see the intended purpose of the exhibit (which was in the early 1900s) was intended to be farcical. Out of context, it simply looks bizarre, but when teaching history of western art, the "Fountain" is historically relevant because of the explicit absurdity. It's just a single touchstone however. That twitter clip, implying the entire purpose of the project is to teach 'toilet art' to Afghani peasants (a crude pejorative meant to 'other' these people) is simply a lie.

Stop getting your news from twitter. Possess just the slightest amount of skepticism and do even a miniscule amount of fact checking before sharing stuff like this. Musk and Trump are firing off lie after lie after lie and you can't simply accept them at face value.

---

I don't give a crap what they are working on or what BS accomplishments they fabricate. The fact is our country is bankrupt and shouldn't be spending a dime on waste like this. If you want to send your own money to this fine. However, I and many other are stick and tired of paying for your stupid *****

---

Fabricate? These USAID projects are audited by independent PA firms on a yearly basis. And this aid was budgeted and approved by Congress. If you have an issue with the funding of any specific USAID contract, contact your representative and voice your opinion.

---

I have a problem with every single contract in USAID until proven otherwise. We shouldn't continue to play empire builder. And the fraud is so apparent thanks to Burisma.

How in the hell do you think all of those homes in DC got to be so expensive? $180,000 / yr salaries?

Your defense of USAID is not going to work. There was way too much obfuscation to be legitimate. Congresspeople should not be on the boards of NGOs that get federal funding.

---

Five of the wealthiest counties in THE WORLD, not just this country, are suburbs just outside Washington D.C. Can any of the concerned moderates explain why? Sorry for the derail.

BusterAg said:

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Rossticus said:

---

Don't forget that Putin has now literally put nukes in Belarus. Does that mean that Poland and NATO would be justified in and should invade Belarus? I mean, NUKES AT NATO BORDERS!

NATO is only a threat to Russia if Russia takes action against a NATO country. This is why Ukraine in NATO is a "threat". Not because it's an inherent existential threat to Russia but because it's a threat to prevent Russia from screwing with Ukraine and molding them into Belarus.

---

Putin can launch Nukes from Siberia and hit Washington DC.

It's not about where nukes are. It's about strategic defense alliances.

If Russia stated that any defense of the remainder of Ukraine would result in nuclear war, that would be a problem.

---

At the same time, if we normalize the fact that's all Russia has to say in order to get concessions then Russia won't hesitate to continue to make those threats as a matter of course beyond Ukraine. And we've already seen that Russia will make nuclear threats with no intention of follow through to see if we'll self-deter out of fear. It's a balancing act, to be sure.

You pointed out (correctly) that the locations of nukes are irrelevant, but then claimed it's "super easy" to nuke Russia from Poland. If that's not clearly conflicting, I don't think I can help you further.

You also made it clear you have no clue how NATO works with your absurd claim that NATO would be obligated to nuke Russia over Ukraine.

You clearly know nothing about the USAID topic and are just parroting the talking points of the guilty parties whose hands were caught in the cookie jar.

It's a state crafting operation with literally billions of dollars in grift. You are simping for some of the most corrupt people in American history. It's really, really pathetic.

Hullabaloonatic said:

---

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

Hullabaloonatic said:

---

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

Hullabaloonatic said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Yes, it all works out splendidly just like that in pattern and practice, as Mr. Stewart so eloquently laid out.

I can’t believe this is real

Millions of US Taxpayer dollars are being sent by USAID to a British Politician turned Yale Professors wife’s NGO called ‘Turquoise Mountain Foundation’

“The Turquoise Mountain Foundation exists to teach Afghani peasants about degenerate modern art” pic.twitter.com/0jG2WCH9va

— Wall Street Apes (@WallStreetApes) February 18, 2025

---

You're going to make me do your homework for you? Pro tip: if your news source is twitter, you're being deliberately misinformed.

This whole thing is a soup of non sense, so i'll try to untangle the brain worm that twitter dropped in your mind.

Quote:

---

"The Turqoise Mountain Foundation exists to teach Afghani peasants about degenerate modern art"

---

A 10 second google search can take you to the original USAID Fact Sheet for the Turquoise Mountain Foundation (here). The contract, which was granted well before Rory Stewart even met Shoshana Stewart (she was married to someone else), in 2008. She has been the CEO of the charity organization for almost 20 years and the objectives of the project was to provide education and training, economic opportunities, and livelihoods for Afghans. Specifically, 1) build economic and trade opportunities for Afghans through the economic, social and cultural regeneration of Murad Khane, a traditional commercial and craft neighborhood in the center of Kabul's Old City; 2) provide traditional craft education through the Turquoise Mountain Institute for Afghan Arts and Architecture; 3) develop a market for Afghan crafts domestically and internationally through business mentoring, marketing and sales support. The list of accomplishments:

• Established an internationally recognized brand, profiled in over 100 international publications, that sold almost $3 million worth of Afghan crafts to markets in Asia, Europe, North America and the Middle East
• Enhanced Afghanistan's reputation as a source of high-quality products
• Provided direct education, employment and healthcare services to 64,246 Afghans, and indirectly reached approximately over 300,000 beneficiaries
• Provided supplementary educationincluding art and language classes to a total of 122 children (68 boys and 54 girls) between the ages of five and 14
• Graduated 144 students (107 male and 37 female) from the Turquoise Mountain Institute over four years, of whom 24 percent owned their own craft businesses, 52 percent worked in craft-related employment, 13 percent were pursuing further studies, and 11 percent were not in formal employment

Just read the list of accomplishments and tell me why none of these were mentioned? Perhaps it doesn't fit the narrative?

This also had the intended objective of westernizing Afghani citizens (a worthwhile objective, no?). That 30 second clip regarding the 'toilet art' was snipped from a 2015 documentary "Bitter Lake." While absurd on its face, you can google Marcel Duchamp and see the intended purpose of the exhibit (which was in the early 1900s) was intended to be farcical. Out of context, it simply looks bizarre, but when teaching history of western art, the "Fountain" is historically relevant because of the explicit absurdity. It's just a single touchstone however. That twitter clip, implying the entire purpose of the project is to teach 'toilet art' to Afghani peasants (a crude pejorative meant to 'other' these people) is simply a lie.

Stop getting your news from twitter. Possess just the slightest amount of skepticism and do even a miniscule amount of fact checking before sharing stuff like this. Musk and Trump are firing off lie after lie after lie and you can't simply accept them at face value.

---

I don't give a crap what they are working on or what BS accomplishments they fabricate. The fact is our country is bankrupt and shouldn't be spending a dime on waste like this. If you want to send your own money to this fine. However, I and many other are stick and tired of paying for your stupid *****

---

Fabricate? These USAID projects are audited by independent PA firms on a yearly basis. And this aid was budgeted and approved by Congress. If you have an issue with the funding of any specific USAID contract, contact your representative and voice your opinion.

---

I don't have to call anyone; Trump is doing it for me. The auditors are frauds as well, that's part of how they get away with it. Congress is complicit and Trump is fixing that as well. Glad you are ok with our country being bankrupt. Also, you must not pay any taxes.

---

lol gotcha. Independent accounting firms are frauds. Humanitarian workers are frauds. Only Trump, the man who literally calls himself King, is honest.

And thanks to Trump, I will be paying less taxes! Huzzah!

---

It's clear you have no idea how fraud occurs. You do realize that fraud occurs despite the involvement of independent auditors? I suggest you read up on topics prior to posting your stupid liberal feels.

Rossticus said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

Rossticus said:

---

Don't forget that Putin has now literally put nukes in Belarus. Does that mean that Poland and NATO would be justified in and should invade Belarus? I mean, NUKES AT NATO BORDERS!

NATO is only a threat to Russia if Russia takes action against a NATO country. This is why Ukraine in NATO is a "threat". Not because it's an inherent existential threat to Russia but because it's a threat to prevent Russia from screwing with Ukraine and molding them into Belarus.

---

Putin can launch Nukes from Siberia and hit Washington DC.

It's not about where nukes are. It's about strategic defense alliances.

If Russia stated that any defense of the remainder of Ukraine would result in nuclear war, that would be a problem.

---

At the same time, if we normalize the fact that's all Russia has to say in order to get concessions then Russia won't hesitate to continue to make those threats as a matter of course beyond Ukraine. And we've already seen that Russia will make nuclear threats with no intention of follow through to see if we'll self-deter out of fear. It's a balancing act, to be sure.

---

Agree that it is a balancing act.

But I want no part in a war for the Donbas and Crimea regions. The cost is too expensive compared to the gain to the US taxpayer.

We need to find a way to peace and get the hell out of there.

GAC06 said:

---

You pointed out (correctly) that the locations of nukes are irrelevant, but then claimed it's "super easy" to nuke Russia from Poland. If that's not clearly conflicting, I don't think I can help you further.

You also made it clear you have no clue how NATO works with your absurd claim that NATO would be obligated to nuke Russia over Ukraine.

---

The locations of nukes in 1962 was extremely important.

The locations of nukes in 2025 is not, at all.

Also, pointing out that someone is wrong is not nearly as helpful as educating people on why.

We would be obligated to a response. We would have a decision on what that response would be, but we would be obligated to respond.

A limp wristed response would be followed up by more attacks on other NATO countries. That would eventually lead to nuclear war.

Want to show off your knowledge as opposed to making fun of people? That would be more helpful.

I'll stipulate LASTING peace and agree. If we don't ensure that whatever resolution is reached has sufficient deterrence measures to keep each side in line with their respective commitments then we could be right back here in 5 to 10 years depending on who hold the US presidency.

See you guys again tomorrow morning.

BusterAg said:

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See you guys again tomorrow morning.

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BusterAg said:

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GAC06 said:

---

You pointed out (correctly) that the locations of nukes are irrelevant, but then claimed it's "super easy" to nuke Russia from Poland. If that's not clearly conflicting, I don't think I can help you further.

You also made it clear you have no clue how NATO works with your absurd claim that NATO would be obligated to nuke Russia over Ukraine.

---

The locations of nukes in 1962 was extremely important.

The locations of nukes in 2025 is not, at all.

Also, pointing out that someone is wrong is not nearly as helpful as educating people on why.

We would be obligated to a response. We would have a decision on what that response would be, but we would be obligated to respond.

A limp wristed response would be followed up by more attacks on other NATO countries. That would eventually lead to nuclear war.

Want to show off your knowledge as opposed to making fun of people? That would be more helpful.

---

Location was important in the 60's but not now. Yet you said:

"NATO in Ukraine is not just similar to nukes in Cuba, it is almost exactly the same thing"


Good Lord, do you even remember your own claims from minutes ago?

rgvag11 said:

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You don't invade another sovereign nation.

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The US has done that several times over the last 60 years, I don't care if all of them have not been publicized.

Not justifying Russia, just pointing out the we are just a f'ng bad.