LBJ is one of the Dems saints. That's all I need to hear to know the treason he was capable of.

Lyndon made sure he was not in the same car on that downtown parade.

My father was in Vietnam and incensed when LBJ announced he wouldn't seek another term because other than making it home, one of things he was looking forward to the most was voting against him.

Fun Fact; Mac Wallace was the student body president at Texas. Such controversial history at that school.

Cowboy Curtis said:

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Holy ***** Spot on story!

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Anything you want to add that wasn't in the video? Even if its just a tiny detail it would probably be interesting,

And LHO's daughter was a valedictorian.

WBBQ74 said:

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Lyndon made sure he was not in the same car on that downtown parade.

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But he was also best friends with Gov Connally and although he was a POS, i highly doubt he would give Mac Wallace or whoever the ok to fire shots into that car with Connally, his wife Nellie and Jackie sitting in there!! I don't think he was involved….he did however have the power to help "cover up" things when it was over.

Actually Lyndon was told he was sitting with Ralph Yarbrough who he was feuding with at the time, so he wasn't calling any shots on who sat where.

LBJ also appointed some people that hated him to the WC. I don't think Earl Warren (Eisenhower SCOTUS Appointee) liked him. Russell led protests against LBJ at the 64 DNC. I think Gerald Ford was respected on both sides of the aisle as a rare honest and ethical politician. Not sure these were the people LBJ would have wanted on the commission if he was involved.

Bighunter43 said:

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WBBQ74 said:

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Lyndon made sure he was not in the same car on that downtown parade.

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But he was also best friends with Gov Connally and although he was a POS, i highly doubt he would give Mac Wallace or whoever the ok to fire shots into that car with Connally, his wife Nellie and Jackie sitting in there!! I don't think he was involved….he did however have the power to help "cover up" things when it was over.

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Per Jackie Kennedy the loudest longest fight she ever heard JFK and LBJ have was about who would sit in the car with her husband that day. LBJ was arguing for the other Texas Senator to be in the car and not Gov Connally.

And Connally would eventually drop the Democrats and actually campaign for Nixon for President in 68. LBJ was very angry that Conally wasn't supporting LBJ's pick of Humphrey

Martels Hammer said:

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Bighunter43 said:

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WBBQ74 said:

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Lyndon made sure he was not in the same car on that downtown parade.

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But he was also best friends with Gov Connally and although he was a POS, i highly doubt he would give Mac Wallace or whoever the ok to fire shots into that car with Connally, his wife Nellie and Jackie sitting in there!! I don't think he was involved….he did however have the power to help "cover up" things when it was over.

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Per Jackie Kennedy the loudest longest fight she ever heard JFK and LBJ have was about who would sit in the car with her husband that day. LBJ was arguing for the other Texas Senator to be in the car and not Gov Connally.

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So LBJ wanted Ralph Yarborough to be in the line of fire, too? Makes sense. Yarborough was a liberal POS who was disliked by everyone. Johnson was the ultimate swamp creature and the bag man for the Democrats in congress for a couple of decades.

The Warren commission was a whitewash. The magic bullet, etc. LBJ was in on it, not the only one but definitely one of the players. What we have been told all these years was not what happened.

I have posted snippets of my families connection to the Box 13 fraud an the power that Johnson held in Texas before, the distortion in the media of many of the actual events an even the somewhat wrong and "glossed over" account by Caro is one of the things that gives me great pause in ever believing the media side of things and even the governments side of things. The path, plot, or plan, to get Johnson elected to higher offices dated back to when Johnson cajoled Truman into pardoning Parr. Johnson had been laying ground work for decades to have a broad and powerful network and much of that, if not all of it, involved big time corruption.

My maternal grandfather was one of two poll watchers, he was on the Democratic County Executive Committee in Jim Wells county. The night of the election he was held at gunpoint at the Box 13 polling station. Other opponents to the Parr machine tried to get to the polling location but there were armed gunmen at the access points/roads and the Parr group had issued valid, credible threats regarding interference.

Parr had ordered many killings in STX, and gotten away with them all. That is one of the reasons that his opponents were few and very careful.

My maternal family had been at odds with the Parr's for a long time, even though they knew each other. A defining moment was the "suicide" of my great grandfather by a pistol shot to the back of his head while he was mayor of Alice during WWII. He worked on the railroads there and was well known and didn't own a handgun. The Parr group had various scams and crooked operations going on at the rail yard in Alice and supposedly he didn't go along with it. He was an Aggie, class of of like 1890 or so.

The fraudulent vote culminated with Box 13, but thousands of votes out of South Texas were fraudulent. The acceptance of these votes had already been put in play long before the election. Johnson held enough power that the valid legal challenges were thwarted. Stevenson was threatened as were a couple of the Rangers and former Rangers involved. These men were not afraid of Parr, they later pursued him, but they were very leery of Johnson.

Like the JFK assignation there is a tangled, nefarious web to Johnson becoming president. One of the overlooked items is that Johnson was instrumental, the driver basically, of having Truman pardon Parr.

My grandmother and mother, along with the families of several of those opposed to Parr had to go into hiding for several weeks after the election. Parr had armed men in San Diego and Alice and the support for his opposition basically withered due to Johnson's corrupt maneuvering. The outcries by the Stevenson supporters and the obvious fraud basically fell on fairly deaf ears at the national and state level in terms of something actually being done about it.

And in all of this it was Johnson that orchestrated his fraudulent election to the US senate which led to him becoming, by far, the worst and most vile and corrupt president this country has ever seen. And that is saying something considering the last 2 Democratic presidents. Seeing the conniving and slippery way Johnson did things assures me that he was able to, and had the moxie, to do other terrible things. And the fact that he got away with Box 13 also assured me that truth and justice isn't a guaranteed outcome when the government is involved.

A quick aside, Caro spent like 2 days bird dogging my grandfather for an interview, basically camped outside their house an various times ringing the doorbell along with endless phone calls. My grandfather wanted no part in speaking about Box 13, nor did any of the still living participants. Caro obtained his whitewashed information from those that were part of it. There was lots of bad stuff that went on before and after Box 13.

WBBQ74 said:

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Martels Hammer said:

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Bighunter43 said:

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WBBQ74 said:

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Lyndon made sure he was not in the same car on that downtown parade.

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But he was also best friends with Gov Connally and although he was a POS, i highly doubt he would give Mac Wallace or whoever the ok to fire shots into that car with Connally, his wife Nellie and Jackie sitting in there!! I don't think he was involved….he did however have the power to help "cover up" things when it was over.

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Per Jackie Kennedy the loudest longest fight she ever heard JFK and LBJ have was about who would sit in the car with her husband that day. LBJ was arguing for the other Texas Senator to be in the car and not Gov Connally.

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So LBJ wanted Ralph Yarborough to be in the line of fire, too? Makes sense. Yarborough was a liberal POS who was disliked by everyone. Johnson was the ultimate swamp creature and the bag man for the Democrats in congress for a couple of decades.

The Warren commission was a whitewash. The magic bullet, etc. LBJ was in on it, not the only one but definitely one of the players. What we have been told all these years was not what happened.

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JFK said it would be stupid to have a campaign trip to Texas and not put the Texas Governor in the car especially due to his perceived popularity.

RGV AG said:

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I have posted snippets of my families connection to the Box 13 fraud an the power that Johnson held in Texas before, the distortion in the media of many of the actual events an even the somewhat wrong and "glossed over" account by Caro is one of the things that gives me great pause in ever believing the media side of things and even the governments side of things. The path, plot, or plan, to get Johnson elected to higher offices dated back to when Johnson cajoled Truman into pardoning Parr. Johnson had been laying ground work for decades to have a broad and powerful network and much of that, if not all of it, involved big time corruption.

My maternal grandfather was one of two poll watchers, he was on the Democratic County Executive Committee in Jim Wells county. The night of the election he was held at gunpoint at the Box 13 polling station. Other opponents to the Parr machine tried to get to the polling location but there were armed gunmen at the access points/roads and the Parr group had issued valid, credible threats regarding interference.

Parr had ordered many killings in STX, and gotten away with them all. That is one of the reasons that his opponents were few and very careful.

My maternal family had been at odds with the Parr's for a long time, even though they knew each other. A defining moment was the "suicide" of my great grandfather by a pistol shot to the back of his head while he was mayor of Alice during WWII. He worked on the railroads there and was well known and didn't own a handgun. The Parr group had various scams and crooked operations going on at the rail yard in Alice and supposedly he didn't go along with it. He was an Aggie, class of of like 1890 or so.

The fraudulent vote culminated with Box 13, but thousands of votes out of South Texas were fraudulent. The acceptance of these votes had already been put in play long before the election. Johnson held enough power that the valid legal challenges were thwarted. Stevenson was threatened as were a couple of the Rangers and former Rangers involved. These men were not afraid of Parr, they later pursued him, but they were very leery of Johnson.

Like the JFK assignation there is a tangled, nefarious web to Johnson becoming president. One of the overlooked items is that Johnson was instrumental, the driver basically, of having Truman pardon Parr.

My grandmother and mother, along with the families of several of those opposed to Parr had to go into hiding for several weeks after the election. Parr had armed men in San Diego and Alice and the support for his opposition basically withered due to Johnson's corrupt maneuvering. The outcries by the Stevenson supporters and the obvious fraud basically fell on fairly deaf ears at the national and state level in terms of something actually being done about it.

And in all of this it was Johnson that orchestrated his fraudulent election to the US senate which led to him becoming, by far, the worst and most vile and corrupt president this country has ever seen. And that is saying something considering the last 2 Democratic presidents. Seeing the conniving and slippery way Johnson did things assures me that he was able to, and had the moxie, to do other terrible things. And the fact that he got away with Box 13 also assured me that truth and justice isn't a guaranteed outcome when the government is involved.

A quick aside, Caro spent like 2 days bird dogging my grandfather for an interview, basically camped outside their house an various times ringing the doorbell along with endless phone calls. My grandfather wanted no part in speaking about Box 13, nor did any of the still living participants. Caro obtained his whitewashed information from those that were part of it. There was lots of bad stuff that went on before and after Box 13.

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I will post my anecdote from Alice Texas later tonight. In short I bumped into the son of the Law Officer that killed the reporter.

If LBJ or the CIA was involved in any way in the JFK assassination, they would have documented it in great detail. Oswald acted alone. Just like Kevin Clinesmith acted alone in doctoring the FISA email to spy on Trump. When Peter Strzok texted "we will stop him", he was referring to the voters, not the feds.

Making wild conspiracy claims, or questioning suspicious suicides, only erodes public trust in our sacred gov institutions. Look at all the damage that was done to Fauci and NIH when the official wet market narrative was rejected. Do we really want to disgrace the feds with more coup nonsense?

You should believe the majority of documented JFK testimony and experts. Just look at all the climate change damage being done by all those rejecting arguements based on consensus and authority. All you conspiracy theorists need to give it up and fall in line.

If you keep pushing, just remember Schumer's warning, the upstanding patriots at the intel community have 6 ways from Sunday at getting back at you.

Are talking about Mason the radio guy? The deputy that killed that guy ended up "hanging himself" in prison.

Anything associated, even distantly, with Johnson is rotten. And Parr and his folks were nothing more than modern day white slavers with how they ran things in Duval and some parts of the adjoining counties.

I'm pretty sure one of the Rangers Coke Stevenson brought with him to see the signatures on Box 13 was none other than Frank Hamer of Bonnie and Clyde fame. Apparently there were armed men outside who didn't want to let them in, but I guess his fame won out, as they backed down.

RGV AG said:

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Are talking about Mason the radio guy? The deputy that killed that guy ended up "hanging himself" in prison.

Anything associated, even distantly, with Johnson is rotten. And Parr and his folks were nothing more than modern day white slavers with how they ran things in Duval and some parts of the adjoining counties.

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My short tiny small story,

I went to Alice Texas for business. Planed to meet a new contact then make a few joint sales calls in the area.

I meet the guy I would be working with and mentioned that I had just read in a book about Oswald visiting Alice Texas and nobody was sure why or if it was even Oswald. Then mentioned that I read the history of the reporter shot while doing the story.

The mans head dropped, he is looking down the entire time he is talking, and he says that the Deputy was his dad, and that all the bad things I read about his dad were wrong etc.

I didn't say a word while he explained everything and quickly changed topics.

FobTies said:

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If LBJ or the CIA was involved in any way in the JFK assassination, they would have documented it in great detail. Oswald acted alone. Just like Kevin Clinesmith acted alone in doctoring the FISA email to spy on Trump. When Peter Strzok texted "we will stop him", he was referring to the voters, not the feds.

Making wild conspiracy claims, or questioning suspicious suicides, only erodes public trust in our sacred gov institutions. Look at all the damage that was done to Fauci and NIH when the official wet market narrative was rejected. Do we really want to disgrace the feds with more coup nonsense?

You should believe the majority of documented JFK testimony and experts. Just look at all the climate change damage being done by all those rejecting arguements based on consensus and authority. All you conspiracy theorists need to give it up and fall in line.

If you keep pushing, just remember Schumer's warning, the upstanding patriots at the intel community have 6 ways from Sunday at getting back at you.

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climate change, huh. I'd recommend finding another analogy.

There were so many armed men in the bank, that is where the voter paperwork was, and around the bank that Stevenson and, you are correct, Hamer and another ranger took off their coats to show that they were unarmed in order to be let in.

They were allowed scarce minutes inside and the visit produced nothing other than personal assurances that the 202 votes were fake.

A. Allee spent hours with my grandparents and on one occasion had to stay the night at their house due to a threat.

TheCurl84 said:

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climate change, huh. I'd recommend finding another analogy.

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Man made climate change is real, pretty much all the expert scientists agree. Just like the experts on COVID wet market origin and vaccines stopping the spread. I heard a Senator the other day say all the major colleges were teaching climate change, so has to be real.

AggieLAX said:

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Billy Sol Estes was a Texas businessman notorious for his involvement in fraudulent agricultural schemes during the late 1950s and early 1960s. His operations included scams related to federal agricultural subsidies, notably involving non-existent crops of cotton.

Estes had associations with prominent political figures, including then-Senator Lyndon B. Johnson. Their relationship has been a subject of speculation, especially after Estes's legal troubles became public. Some sources suggest that Johnson's aides had interactions with Estes, but the depth and nature of Johnson's direct involvement remain debated.

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My grandma's cousin was the agriculture inspector that uncovered Estes' Cotton Allotment scheme. He was found shot 5 times in the chest with his own bolt action .22 rifle on the side of a dirt road. Judge ruled it a suicide, took many years to get that overturned.

Many people were covering for Estes and all the other murders he was involved in. I don't know if LBJ really had direct knowledge of the murder beforehand but my grandmother hated LBJ until her dying day.

Grandma told me about how her cousin was offered a promotion and a job in DC when he first uncovered the scheme if he just let the case go. He refused to give up on it. She also mentioned threats they received. I was too young to remember everything she told me, wish I had written it down as there were details I haven't been able to find anywhere since.

https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKestes.htm

lexofer said:

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AggieLAX said:

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Billy Sol Estes was a Texas businessman notorious for his involvement in fraudulent agricultural schemes during the late 1950s and early 1960s. His operations included scams related to federal agricultural subsidies, notably involving non-existent crops of cotton.

Estes had associations with prominent political figures, including then-Senator Lyndon B. Johnson. Their relationship has been a subject of speculation, especially after Estes's legal troubles became public. Some sources suggest that Johnson's aides had interactions with Estes, but the depth and nature of Johnson's direct involvement remain debated.

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My grandma's cousin was the agriculture inspector that uncovered Estes' Cotton Allotment scheme. He was found shot 5 times in the chest with his own bolt action .22 rifle on the side of a dirt road. Judge ruled it a suicide, took many years to get that overturned.

Many people were covering for Estes and all the other murders he was involved in. I don't know if LBJ really had direct knowledge of the murder beforehand but my grandmother hated LBJ until her dying day.

Grandma told me about how her cousin was offered a promotion and a job in DC when he first uncovered the scheme if he just let the case go. He refused to give up on it. She also mentioned threats they received. I was too young to remember everything she told me, wish I had written it down as there were details I haven't been able to find anywhere since.

https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKestes.htm

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If you've never watched the Men Who Killed Kennedy Episode 9 The Guilty Men it covers the LBJ/Billie Sol Estes story and especially details the death of your relative Henry Marshall and his "suicide". I don't buy any of the LBJ had JFK killed part (especially Madeline Brown and the infamous "meeting" the night before the assassination)….however the Mac Wallace and Henry Marshall parts are pretty spot on from what I gather.

I grew up in Hays County in the 1980s. It was fairly conservative given its proximity to Austin. Even during the Republican conservative wave of the 1980s it still leaned Democratic. Eventually I learned that LBJs father was born in Mountain City/Buda, and there were several other names in his family tree that still reside in that triangle of the Hill Country between San Marcos, Johnson City, and Austin. Several of them still have significant influence in the area even as the Yellow Dog Democrats have mostly died off. They would rather have power than be on the right side of an issue.

Hmm. We might be distantly related. Still have family in Robertson County?

agsalaska said:

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What kind of idiot would record such a conversation?

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This kind

Irony here is that LBJ told Nixon to have the recordings in the Oval (because it would help with (Nixon's) memoirs.

My Grandfather, class of '30, was a friend of your grandmother's cousin. He too hated LBJ, and said he would ruin the country.

Yep. I know we've all talked about it several times on this forum, but a sitting President referencing his bunghole is something I want to post almost daily because I am a 59 year old man /14 year old boy. But I try to be reserved

smucket said:

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Yep. I know we've all talked about it several times on this forum, but a sitting President referencing his bunghole is something I want to post almost daily because I am a 59 year old man /14 year old boy. But I try to be reserved

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Folks told me I met LBJ when I was a baby. No photos of him holding me up by my ears have survived.

RGV AG said:

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Are talking about Mason the radio guy? The deputy that killed that guy ended up "hanging himself" in prison.

Anything associated, even distantly, with Johnson is rotten. And Parr and his folks were nothing more than modern day white slavers with how they ran things in Duval and some parts of the adjoining counties.

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It's amazing to me, that with all the things that are known about George Parr, there are still people that disregard all of his evil and grifting because he sent some poor person to a doctor or gave them a turkey at Christmas or Thanksgiving. Parr was straight up crooked and did lots of evil things to hold on to his power.

Two things I hadn't heard before (1) at ~53:30 mark talking about DH Byrd had the sniper window from the school book depository removed and moved to his house after the assassination, and (2) there are multiple pictures of the "sniper's nest" where DPD was apparently trying to setup the boxes in a viable configuration for making that shot ~59:00.

Anyone have links to those supposed pictures showing different setups? Some outlandish stuff in that video.

lexofer said:

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AggieLAX said:

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Billy Sol Estes was a Texas businessman notorious for his involvement in fraudulent agricultural schemes during the late 1950s and early 1960s. His operations included scams related to federal agricultural subsidies, notably involving non-existent crops of cotton.

Estes had associations with prominent political figures, including then-Senator Lyndon B. Johnson. Their relationship has been a subject of speculation, especially after Estes's legal troubles became public. Some sources suggest that Johnson's aides had interactions with Estes, but the depth and nature of Johnson's direct involvement remain debated.

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My grandma's cousin was the agriculture inspector that uncovered Estes' Cotton Allotment scheme. He was found shot 5 times in the chest with his own bolt action .22 rifle on the side of a dirt road. Judge ruled it a suicide, took many years to get that overturned.

Many people were covering for Estes and all the other murders he was involved in. I don't know if LBJ really had direct knowledge of the murder beforehand but my grandmother hated LBJ until her dying day.

Grandma told me about how her cousin was offered a promotion and a job in DC when he first uncovered the scheme if he just let the case go. He refused to give up on it. She also mentioned threats they received. I was too young to remember everything she told me, wish I had written it down as there were details I haven't been able to find anywhere since.

https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKestes.htm

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My grandfather was on a deer lease outside Franklin that Henry Marshall hunted on. He'd shot the famous .22 before. A few years ago I was telling Sheriff Yezak the Robertson County sheriff the stories my grandfather had told me. He said they still have the .22 in evidence.

There's lots of interesting things to come out of Robertson County. Woody Harrelson's hitman father went to Hearne schools