vansprinkle said:

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Hoyt Ag said:

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TKEAg04 said:

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I despise this on my new F150. Stupidest feature ever.

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here ya go

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I added something like this within the first week of buying my car. Have been driving it 2 years now and do not regret eliminating this "feature " one bit.

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Same. I bought a bypass on Amazon and it took about 2 minutes to install on my Toyota Highlander. I think it cost less than $15 and has worked perfectly during the past 3 years.

This is why I will not buy another new vehicle. My next truck is going to be a 1980-1993 Silverado. No key fob bull***** I'm going to let it run rich and spew black smoke everywhere I go.

Worst part about it was how it defaults to on every time you start the engine. I had to buy and install a third party device to disable (sort of) it permanently.

From cradle to grave, including additional hardware, wear and tear, and shortened component lifespan (or up-built hardware), I just cannot fathom this feature saving energy or improving efficiency.

That doesn't count the previously mentioned far of"will it start" from those of us that grew up with older vehicles.

Then there's the teams of engineers and designers who's time and effort are built into the cost of the vehicle.

I need a new truck. But I think I'll keep going for another year to see what changes Trump and Co can roll out for the next model year.

CDUB98 said:

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The Fife said:

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Prosperdick said:

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This was so ridiculous for so many obvious reasons but the one I hated the most, only when I was unlucky enough to drive one as a rental, is it was so damn disconcerting to have it sound like the engine died at every red light. It's such an uneasy feeling, especially in a rental, where you're already not familiar with your surroundings.

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I'm permanently scarred from driving colossal POS cars that were older than me. Stalling out at a stoplight and not being able to start the car again is just about panic-inducing!

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It was a feature, not a bug.

But, you have to admit, a lot of those old cars had character.

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*car stalls*
pump gas 3 times, turn key
*no start*
pump pedal 1 time, turn key
*turns faster for a sec, no start*
---LIGHT CHANGES---
ohcraphcrapohcrap!!!
hold pedal to the floor, turn key
*car comes back to life, drive off quick and pretend that nothing happened!*

My F-100 still has character but I can't wait to swap from a carb and breaker points to EFI and ignition. I can handle the later but the former is just voodoo to me

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I'm going to let it run rich and spew black smoke everywhere I go.

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Hope you're not serious. That's the sign of a poorly tuned engine and you're gonna foul plugs all the time and then get worse fuel mileage.

Now, if that's happening because you've got a giant mother thumpin cam in it, carry on.

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*car stalls*
pump gas 3 times, turn key
*no start*
pump pedal 1 time, turn key
*turns faster for a sec, no start*
---LIGHT CHANGES---
ohcraphcrapohcrap!!!
hold pedal to the floor, turn key
*car comes back to life, drive off quick and pretend that nothing happened!*

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So true.

DrEvazanPhD said:

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we'll save 8 cents of gas a year with this feature, that probably costs the consumer an extra 1000 to install. Brilliant government thinking.

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Added bonus is it increases wear and tear on the engine

CDUB98 said:

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I'm going to let it run rich and spew black smoke everywhere I go.

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Hope you're not serious. That's the sign of a poorly tuned engine and you're gonna foul plugs all the time and then get worse fuel mileage.

Now, if that's happening because you've got a giant mother thumpin cam in it, carry on.

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I love blowing black smoke rolling through Steamboat and making the hippies cough.

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My F-100 still has character but I can't wait to swap from a carb and breaker points to EFI and ignition. I can handle the later but the former is just voodoo to me

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You can already install a digital distributor from MDS that will help you immediately. Get a GM HEI style, look up a video on YouTube for making the switch, and profit. Or just get an MSD drop-in and keep the external coil. It's easy to do and will have an impact on efficiency and reliability right away.

Kenneth_2003 said:

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From cradle to grave, including additional hardware, wear and tear, and shortened component lifespan (or up-built hardware), I just cannot fathom this feature saving energy or improving efficiency.

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I really don't think it does, and there's no way the shortened life expectancy / increased cost / resources expended when it dies needs replacement are being taken into account. We're deep into diminishing returns with a lot of stuff.

With regards to car engines IMO the sweet spot between efficiency, maintenance needs, and lifespan would be new releases from around 1995-2005. Afterwords you get into a lot of gimmicks with a lot of drawback, for not a lot of extra mileage.

CDUB98 said:

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Quote:

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My F-100 still has character but I can't wait to swap from a carb and breaker points to EFI and ignition. I can handle the later but the former is just voodoo to me

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You can already install a digital distributor from MDS that will help you immediately. Get a GM HEI style, look up a video on YouTube for making the switch, and profit. Or just get an MSD drop-in and keep the external coil. It's easy to do and will have an impact on efficiency and reliability right away.

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It's on the to-do list along with some kind of fuel injection. What's holding me back the most right now is clearing crap out of the garage so I can move her in there. I also need to replace some 55 year old suspension rubber while we're in there... really anything made of rubber needs to be swapped out but that would basically snowball into a multi-year frame off restoration.

LMCane said:

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Prosperdick said:

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This was so ridiculous for so many obvious reasons but the one I hated the most, only when I was unlucky enough to drive one as a rental, is it was so damn disconcerting to have it sound like the engine died at every red light. It's such an uneasy feeling, especially in a rental, where you're already not familiar with your surroundings.

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on the BMW it is not just every red light- it's every time you try to park, or you are trying to turn at a stop sign and the engine cuts out when you are trying to gun it...

AWFUL!!

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Ram1500 does this as well. Pulling into driveway it stops, then starts as I move when the garage door opens, then stopes when I stop, then starts again when I put it into park...so dumb. First thing I do when I start it is click the 'off' button.

My wife's CRV has it done right. When you come to a stop, the dash will show a message "To engage stop/start, depress brake peddle fully". So it you're at a long light or a train, you can just push down a little harder on the brake pedal and it activates. Otherwise it does not stop the car.

agracer said:

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My wife's CRV has it done right. When you come to a stop, the dash will show a message "To engage stop/start, depress brake peddle fully". So it you're at a long light or a train, you can just push down a little harder on the brake pedal and it activates. Otherwise it does not stop the car.

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Engrish, do it speak it?

TKEAg04 said:

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I despise this on my new F150. Stupidest feature ever.

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Two minute install.

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but that would basically snowball into a multi-year frame off restoration

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aggiegolfer2012 said:

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Had a truck that I'm 100% sure had engine issues because of this feature.

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My vehicle has this feature as well and the battery for it (yes, there's two batteries in my vehicle because of this feature that I NEVER use) needed replacing because, even though I never use it it still dies. And because of that I had to pay $250 for the dealer to install a new one.

Again, for a feature I never use.

Good riddance. Both my vehicles have this. Just an irritation and one more thing to break. I have a permanent override switch for it in my jeep. But it requires a second battery that's impossible to reach and replace. And if it does, it can take the primary down with it.

Owlagdad said:

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I want to get as much as I can out of those $300 batteries.

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Probably will not need those expensive batteries if you are not starting the engine at every intersection.

I wonder if my new Ferd truck will have a second battery for this? Hmmm.


I'm beginning to think I need to find a 93-95 F250 with the original PowerStroke, a manual transmission, and just slowly restore it. Trucks are virtually bulletproof and have little computer do-dads. Would likely cost close to $100k, but would be the last truck I ever owned as well.

CDUB98 said:

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but that would basically snowball into a multi-year frame off restoration

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I'm not sure the Automotive Board could survive two ongoing 5th gen F-100 redo threads!

Owlagdad said:

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I asked my dad when I was a kid why he didn't turn key off at stoplight to save gas. He said, "cause it takes more gas to fire it up". This was 1961 thinking though.
My F150 has it,and finally I learned to disable it after I start it. Wife even does it if I forget. I want to get as much as I can out of those $300 batteries.

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This is true when you consider stop and go traffic and you factor in recharging the battery.

Logos Stick said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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Did they ever demonstrate that it could save an appreciable amount of fuel in typical driving patterns?

The only time I could think it would remotely make sense is city driving in a properly designed hybrid that can do a fair amount of slow speed driving electric only.

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Probably not. And I've always wondered about the wear and tear of stopping the engine and starting it like that. Is that a concern?!

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Not for the auto companies. They want you to wear out that engine faster so you need a replacement. Realize that they (along with most of the consumer appliance companies) love this stuff because it reduces the length of time you keep it until you have to either repair it or replace it.

The worst thing to me is still the emissions standards that now make it so you can basically just buy trucks with turbo engines in them that are a ticking time bomb. Have a 2013 and '15 F150 in the household with 3.5 Ecoboost and have had to do rebuilds on both after about 130k costing around 5k. For my younger son got him a '20 Tacoma with the old V6 and that thing will probably go 250k miles so he can drive it until he's 30 if he wants. The last Tundra with the old V8 was '21 and I'll probably replace out my F-150 with one of those but I'd really prefer to just buy a new one with that engine but that option doesn't exist, have to get the turbo.

Let consumers buy the vehicles they want and not what some liberal administrator thinks we should have.

Owlagdad said:

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I asked my dad when I was a kid why he didn't turn key off at stoplight to save gas. He said, "cause it takes more gas to fire it up". This was 1961 thinking though.
My F150 has it,and finally I learned to disable it after I start it. Wife even does it if I forget. I want to get as much as I can out of those $300 batteries.

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And $1000 starters.

aggie93 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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Did they ever demonstrate that it could save an appreciable amount of fuel in typical driving patterns?

The only time I could think it would remotely make sense is city driving in a properly designed hybrid that can do a fair amount of slow speed driving electric only.

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Probably not. And I've always wondered about the wear and tear of stopping the engine and starting it like that. Is that a concern?!

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Not for the auto companies. They want you to wear out that engine faster so you need a replacement. Realize that they (along with most of the consumer appliance companies) love this stuff because it reduces the length of time you keep it until you have to either repair it or replace it.

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I'm not a mechanic, but this probably causes more wear on the starter than the engine. Replacing a starter on newer cars can be very expensive and not something most do-it-yourselfers would want to tackle

CDUB98 said:

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I wonder if my new Ferd truck will have a second battery for this? Hmmm.


I'm beginning to think I need to find a 93-95 F250 with the original PowerStroke, a manual transmission, and just slowly restore it. Trucks are virtually bulletproof and have little computer do-dads. Would likely cost close to $100k, but would be the last truck I ever owned as well.

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I have a 2000 F250 with the Power Stroke (thanks gearhead Rob) turbo 6.7L I bought new that year. For at least 10 years now we have only used it to pull trailers on the ranch. But it simply won't die and my foreman can actually work on it if needed. I'll never get rid of it.

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I'm not a mechanic, but this probably causes more wear on the starter than the engine. Replacing a starter on newer cars can be very expensive and not something most do-it-yourselfers would want to tackle

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it actually causes significant wear on the engine.

Urban Ag said:

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CDUB98 said:

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I wonder if my new Ferd truck will have a second battery for this? Hmmm.


I'm beginning to think I need to find a 93-95 F250 with the original PowerStroke, a manual transmission, and just slowly restore it. Trucks are virtually bulletproof and have little computer do-dads. Would likely cost close to $100k, but would be the last truck I ever owned as well.

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I have a 2000 F250 with the Cummins turbo 6.7L I bought new that year. For at least 10 years now we have only used it to pull trailers on the ranch. But it simply won't die and my foreman can actually work on it if needed. I'll never get rid of it.

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An f250 (Ford) with a Cummins (Dodge)?

As someone who bought a used 2020 F-150 a few weeks ago this is annoying as all hell.

my bad, I meant the old Power Stoke 6.7. I'll edit.

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Have a 2013 and '15 F150 in the household with 3.5 Ecoboost and have had to do rebuilds on both after about 130k costing around 5k

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I have a 2013 with the same engine. 167k miles and zero issues with the cam phasors or turbos.

I'm beginning to feel like my truck is a unicorn though.