TheEternalOptimist said:

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AgNav93 said:

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The only plea deal I can see is Plead Guilty and get life without parole and spared the death penalty. But, I hope he gets death, and I hope it is in Utah and it's a firing squad. would be appropriate.

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No. This is not acceptable.

We have a fair trial and if he is found guilty, he should be executed. Firing squad would be most preferred.

His remains should be respectfully disposed of at sea like Bin Laden was so there is no gravestone or place for the radical left to make a monument out of. Because you know they would.

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If he wants to plead guilty, the prosecution doesn't get to say "Noooo, we want to put on a trial." If/when he pleads guilty, the trial proceedings are over. Then it goes to sentencing, and I don't know if a jury or a judge does the sentencing in Utah. Based on a quick search, it looks like a jury does the sentencing in a capital case.

Brown isnt getting the death penalty, but this shooter might, he certainly deserves it.

HTownAg98 said:

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TheEternalOptimist said:

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AgNav93 said:

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The only plea deal I can see is Plead Guilty and get life without parole and spared the death penalty. But, I hope he gets death, and I hope it is in Utah and it's a firing squad. would be appropriate.

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No. This is not acceptable.

We have a fair trial and if he is found guilty, he should be executed. Firing squad would be most preferred.

His remains should be respectfully disposed of at sea like Bin Laden was so there is no gravestone or place for the radical left to make a monument out of. Because you know they would.

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If he wants to plead guilty, the prosecution doesn't get to say "Noooo, we want to put on a trial." If/when he pleads guilty, the trial proceedings are over. Then it goes to sentencing, and I don't know if a jury or a judge does the sentencing in Utah. Based on a quick search, it looks like a jury does the sentencing in a capital case.

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The judge can reject a guilty plea in a murder case.

Utah's DP procedure:

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When the government wants to seek the death penalty in your case, they have to tell you and give you proper notice and follow particular procedures listed in the aggravated murder statute. They also need to use what's commonly called a "death-certified" jury and use a bifurcated trial process.

A bifurcated trial uses two forks of the trial: one to decide guilt or innocence and another to decide life or death. This separates the issue of guilt from the punishment and requires a second trial on the issue of life or death.

Jurors who participate in a death penalty decision often need to be questioned to make sure that they can rule for the death penalty if sufficient evidence exists for it. This often makes jury selection more time-consuming and will rule out many potentially sympathetic jurors.

However, a jury cannot elect the death penalty if even one juror decides against it it has to be absolutely unanimous. The guilt/innocence stage also needs all 12 jurors to be in agreement, whereas other felony crimes can sometimes use a panel of 8 jurors.

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Quote:

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Utah does not use the traditional "murder 1" and "murder 2" breakdown of premeditated murder and any other "intentional" killing. Instead, the crime of "murder" covers intentional killings, while "aggravated murder" covers intentional killings under much more serious circumstances.

Aggravated murder only applies when the killing happens while in jail, when the defendant kills or tries to kill multiple people, when they are involved in another serious felony or desecration of a corpse, when acting to prevent their or someone else's arrest, when they kill for hire (or employ a hitman), or when they had a previous conviction for certain serious offenses. Additionally, killing someone as witness intimidation or when the killing involved an elected candidate/official, peace officer, firefighter, judge, or other similar person.

Killings using bombs or other kinds of terroristic acts or devices or widespread harm are also aggravated murder, as are crimes involving mutilation, torture, or other serious depravity.

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LINK

Slicer97 said:

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I don't think there is a good strategy for him. He's cooked. As he should be.

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Guarantee you there will be a multitude of liberal driven gofundme pages to fund his defense team and more than likely a drove of dishonest leftists willing to purjure themselves trying to give him an alibi.

lil99chris said:

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For these type of cases, there should be an option for a quick trial.

-Did Tyler Robinson pull the trigger? Yes. Death.
-Did Decarlos Brown Jr. kill Iryna Zarutska? Yes. Death.

Carrying out these cases for years is not justice.

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I fear than a long drawn out judicial process is going to result in a liberal President and leftist DOJ crawfishing on his prosecution and or lessening the charges.

He's not getting any alibi. His only shot is sincere contrition and praying for mercy from a jury that might find an ounce of sympathy for a misguided idiot…. who should then sentence him to death anyway

BkYdPitmaster said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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TheEternalOptimist said:

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AgNav93 said:

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The only plea deal I can see is Plead Guilty and get life without parole and spared the death penalty. But, I hope he gets death, and I hope it is in Utah and it's a firing squad. would be appropriate.

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No. This is not acceptable.

We have a fair trial and if he is found guilty, he should be executed. Firing squad would be most preferred.

His remains should be respectfully disposed of at sea like Bin Laden was so there is no gravestone or place for the radical left to make a monument out of. Because you know they would.

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If he wants to plead guilty, the prosecution doesn't get to say "Noooo, we want to put on a trial." If/when he pleads guilty, the trial proceedings are over. Then it goes to sentencing, and I don't know if a jury or a judge does the sentencing in Utah. Based on a quick search, it looks like a jury does the sentencing in a capital case.

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The judge can reject a guilty plea in a murder case.

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Of course. But what grounds in this case would apply? Only thing remotely possible is not understanding what he's pleading guilty to.

Cromagnum said:

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Slicer97 said:

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I don't think there is a good strategy for him. He's cooked. As he should be.

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Gonna be cooked by 8x 0.30 caliber rounds once the Utah Justice system goes through their process. I don't have any concept of how the appeals process works for cases like this or how long that would drag out.

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Man, I wish it would just be one round. Maybe to the gut, then a nice slow and painful bleed out.

Tbone said:

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lil99chris said:

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For these type of cases, there should be an option for a quick trial.

-Did Tyler Robinson pull the trigger? Yes. Death.
-Did Decarlos Brown Jr. kill Iryna Zarutska? Yes. Death.

Carrying out these cases for years is not justice.

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I fear than a long drawn out judicial process is going to result in a liberal President and leftist DOJ crawfishing on his prosecution and or lessening the charges.

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DOJ and the President can't do anything about state charges.

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Aggiehawg - I was hoping you would post on this thread.

Since almost all of the potential charges will deliver a life sentence, will the prosecutors do one charge at a time to prevent getting one bleeding heart juror that can potentially provide an acquittal on a case with all the charges rolled into it?

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Which is why I posted the definition of aggravated murder, DP eligible, offenses. At first blush, it could appear that the facts of this case don't really fit that statute other than an argument

But this phrasing could, IMO.

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Killings using bombs or other kinds of terroristic acts or devices or widespread harm are also aggravated murder, as are crimes involving mutilation, torture, or other serious depravity.

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Would have to look up some Utah case law to see if there is further illumination on what constitutes terrorist acts or serious depravity.

IOW, I really don't know which direction the prosecutors may go here under state law. Charge aggravated murder but then also the lesser included offenses to ensure a conviction? It is a separate jury that would determine punishment in Utah.

We'll also have to see what DOJ does in possibly bringing federal charges and when. The feds may preempt a state trial.

nm

I see no reason why he shouldn't be executed by firing squad within a couple months of conviction.

I would not be surprised if they reduce to life in prison for a guilty plea. I would be surprised if the Kirks want to draw out this thing for an entire trial.

ETA: I reference the Kirk's because it was hinted during the press conference that law enforcement would be including them in the process.

His car is still in front of the family house.

FBI evidence response team has just entered his family's home.

https://x.com/i/broadcasts/1lDxLBDpXAwGm

Tbone said:

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lil99chris said:

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For these type of cases, there should be an option for a quick trial.

-Did Tyler Robinson pull the trigger? Yes. Death.
-Did Decarlos Brown Jr. kill Iryna Zarutska? Yes. Death.

Carrying out these cases for years is not justice.

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I fear than a long drawn out judicial process is going to result in a liberal President and leftist DOJ crawfishing on his prosecution and or lessening the charges.

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It's a state case. A liberal president can't do **** about a person convicted of murder in Utah or any other state.

That kid ain't insane.

He was very calculated in what he did.
He even had an escape route.

He didn't just wake up that day and decide to do this.

What's really pathetic? Is this is just like the guy who killed the healthcare guy. Very proud of himself thinks he's a hero, but reality is going to set in very quickly. I wonder if a bunch of idiot women will write to him and think he's innocent too?

TexAgs91 said:

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I see no reason why he shouldn't be executed by firing squad within a couple months of conviction.

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Well he does have a right to appeal through the state courts. And then to the Supreme Court, if they agree to hear the case. (Doubtful, they would.)

MattAg84 said:

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Tbone said:

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lil99chris said:

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For these type of cases, there should be an option for a quick trial.

-Did Tyler Robinson pull the trigger? Yes. Death.
-Did Decarlos Brown Jr. kill Iryna Zarutska? Yes. Death.

Carrying out these cases for years is not justice.

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I fear than a long drawn out judicial process is going to result in a liberal President and leftist DOJ crawfishing on his prosecution and or lessening the charges.

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It's a state case. A liberal president can't do **** about a person convicted of murder in Utah or any other state.

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Feds are definitely leading the way now.

His car still being at the family home means that the investigation is just now starting

aggiehawg said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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I see no reason why he shouldn't be executed by firing squad within a couple months of conviction.

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Well he does have a right to appeal through the state courts. And then to the Supreme Court, if they agree to hear the case. (Doubtful, they would.)

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To the layman it seems like state courts and the supreme court could review this in a couple weeks, tops.

TexAgs91 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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I see no reason why he shouldn't be executed by firing squad within a couple months of conviction.

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Well he does have a right to appeal through the state courts. And then to the Supreme Court, if they agree to hear the case. (Doubtful, they would.)

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To the layman it seems like state courts and the supreme court could review this in a couple weeks, tops.

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I wish that were true.

My uninformed opinion.

While the judge can reject a plea deal, it would be highly unusual for a judge to reject a plea deal for life without parole to take the death penalty off the table. I don't think I've ever heard of it happening. It is up to the prosecutor to determine whether to pursue the death penalty. If the prosecutor indicates they are not going to pursue the DP and the defendant is willing to plead guilty for LWOP the judge is going to approve the deal 100% of the time.

It's what we saw with Kohberger in Idaho.

A state court proceeding may not save him from whatever the Feds want to do either. He can be charged, convicted, and sentenced by both. It is not double jeopardy due to the doctrine of dual sovereigns. The federal statutes qualifiying for the death penalty may be more favorable to the DP than the language in Utah. I'm sure they are thinking of ways to prove up Fed jurisdiction.

IMO best case scenario for this guy is LWOP served somewhere protective like USP Florence. Will be mentally difficult being locked down 23 hours a day but at least he'll be protected from other inmates.

Rapier108 said:

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AgNav93 said:

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The only plea deal I can see is Plead Guilty and get life without parole and spared the death penalty. But, I hope he gets death, and I hope it is in Utah and it's a firing squad. would be appropriate.

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Utah has already said there will be no plea deal.

And the feds will likely charge him with terrorism and 1st degree murder. Under federal law, there are several aggravating factors which can be used to seek the death penalty which could be applicable in this case.

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They've already said capitol murder.

Quote:

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A state court proceeding may not save him from whatever the Feds want to do either. He can be charged, convicted, and sentenced by both. It is not double jeopardy due to the doctrine of dual sovereigns. The federal statutes qualifiying for the death penalty may be more favorable to the DP than the language in Utah. I'm sure they are thinking of ways to prove up Fed jurisdiction.

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Using the internet and discord casts a wide net for jurisdictional purposes. (Not that I necessarily agree with that i all cases. But it is on the books.)

As for the state court judge, he/she will likely factor in the wishes of Erika, Kirk's widow.

Where will this rank in terms of publicized trials in the last 50 years? Bigger than OJ? Boston marathon?

I really don't think this will ever go to trial.

If it does, Utah does not have a sunshine law. It would be up to the judge whether to broadcast it. They've been more open lately with the Paltrow civil case and eventually the high profile Richins murder trial which is scheduled for January. The judge in the Richins trial has been iffy as to whether he will allow cameras in the courtroom.

I'd be fine if he pleads guilty, but the state has no reason to offer him any kind of plea deal. Let him plead guilty, and proceed with fact finding for a death sentence. Pleading guilty doesn't mean the death dentence is off the table, it typically works out that way because they'll make a plea deal to avoid death.

Realistically, I would be in favor of a plea deal for life without parole on the condition that he names names. Name any supporters, accomplices, anybody who encouraged him, anybody he listened to when they called for murdering MAGA conservatives, any groups he's part of (antifa or otherwise). At some point, being away from the toxic online culture he embedded himself in, he might come to his senses and realize life in prison is better than death, and he might entertain the idea of ratting out other radicals.

Once he's done with the state proceedings, the feds can get their turn, and put him in Supermax. If he's ever done there, he can come to Utah and serve out his life sentence in a Utah prison.

Please may he defend himself. I for one want him to indict liberalism and forever tether him to it.

They will go for a full trial with liberal lunatic jurors and just blame Donald Trump's rhetoric. Jury nullification is there only hope, just like OJ .

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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A state court proceeding may not save him from whatever the Feds want to do either. He can be charged, convicted, and sentenced by both. It is not double jeopardy due to the doctrine of dual sovereigns. The federal statutes qualifiying for the death penalty may be more favorable to the DP than the language in Utah. I'm sure they are thinking of ways to prove up Fed jurisdiction.

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Using the internet and discord casts a wide net for jurisdictional purposes. (Not that I necessarily agree with that i all cases. But it is on the books.)

As for the state court judge, he/she will likely factor in the wishes of Erika, Kirk's widow.

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My unsolicited hope is that she will decline to offer a response and let the judicial system do it's job.

Gary, not sure you heard, but Kenley passed away earlier this year. Sorry to break it to you this way if you haven't.

TexasAggie81 said:

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The man is completely sane. He planned out a premeditated murder weeks before it was committed. We now have evidence, the instrumentality of the crime, the opportunity to fulfill his intent to kill Kirk, at least one motive, and a confession. He was obviously completely rational when he made all of these decisions, and as a mention, he was rational enough to remove himself from the situation and chose not to do so.

Investigate. Prosecute. Convict. Execute. On state and federal levels. No double jeooardy problems. He's done.

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Assassination culture has absolutely become a center piece with Democrats in this country.