infinity ag said:

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tysker said:

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infinity ag said:

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tysker said:

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Quote:

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, not push up the neighbor's (India) kids.

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Our neighbor's kids are Americans and it's not their fault that they have parents who are more interested in their children's careers and educational outcomes.

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The issue is not American kids (any race). The issue is giving foreigners jobs in US companies when qualified Americans cannot get them.

Just wrong. Stop muddying and derailing.

---

And how many jobs is that roughly? As I noted above, there were about 7.2 million job openings in July.

The issue of children in the classroom is a side effect and, according to the poster, an "indictment" of the program and immigration policy, so it seems relevant. Especially given the lack of academic achievement from native-born families. There's no clear pathway for these STEM-based jobs to get filled, given the volume of Education majors and 'studies' majors, even with the high wages being paid.

---

I am not sure if you are naive or trying to obfuscate.

Agencies lie a lot, if there are 7.2M real openings, there would be no one looking for jobs on Linkedin. The real number is far lower and the problem is US citizens are pushed out in favor of foreigners.

---

Facts and figures are not obfuscation, but rather valuable in determining the importance of the situation.
What 'real number is far lower?' Job openings?

Again, how many "US citizens are pushed out in favor of foreigners" roughly?

tysker said:

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infinity ag said:

---

tysker said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

tysker said:

---

Quote:

---

, not push up the neighbor's (India) kids.

---

Our neighbor's kids are Americans and it's not their fault that they have parents who are more interested in their children's careers and educational outcomes.

---

The issue is not American kids (any race). The issue is giving foreigners jobs in US companies when qualified Americans cannot get them.

Just wrong. Stop muddying and derailing.

---

And how many jobs is that roughly? As I noted above, there were about 7.2 million job openings in July.

The issue of children in the classroom is a side effect and, according to the poster, an "indictment" of the program and immigration policy, so it seems relevant. Especially given the lack of academic achievement from native-born families. There's no clear pathway for these STEM-based jobs to get filled, given the volume of Education majors and 'studies' majors, even with the high wages being paid.

---

I am not sure if you are naive or trying to obfuscate.

Agencies lie a lot, if there are 7.2M real openings, there would be no one looking for jobs on Linkedin. The real number is far lower and the problem is US citizens are pushed out in favor of foreigners.

---

Facts and figures are not obfuscation, but rather valuable in determining the importance of the situation.
What 'real number is far lower?' Job openings?

Again, how many "US citizens are pushed out in favor of foreigners" roughly?

---

I can tell you this is factual in terms of choosing foreigners over US citizens. I saw it first hand at Oracle for 5 years.

I've posted this before, but I did an MBA in the late 2010s and for the hell of it, I did an "introduction to statistical learning" class (basically intro to ML and AI) over at the engineering school in my last semester. It's been awhile so I don't remember the exact number, but something like 80-90% of the class was Indian or Asian. In the class of ~100, probably 10 were white. It was shocking. Americans just weren't interested.

Other observations echo this.
-Half of Zuck's AI super intelligence team is Chinese and another ~25% is foreign born (I can promise you he isn't pinching pennies with those guys).
-China is graduating close to twice as many STEM PhDs as the US (and the number is closer to 3x if you exclude the foreign exchange students that many on here want to send home immediately).
-In recent years, immigrants have founded close to half of the US's unicorn startups.


When i dispassionately look at the numbers, they tell me we need to be extremely cautious with our treatment of foreign white collar workers. Sure some of them are rubbish workers (just like native born workers), but some of the largest contributions to our economy have been made by foreigners, and their contributions to some of the most critical industries (most notably AI) seem to exceed those of native born American workers. I'll be blunt: we can't win an AI race against China without foreign talent. Our pipeline just isn't there.

tysker said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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tysker said:

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samurai_science said:

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tysker said:

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Keller6Ag91 said:

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As a reminder, my daughter, who is a kindergarten teacher in Frisco, now has 16 of her 17 students from India. The 17th is from Hispanic background.

If that isn't an idictment of our H1B1 Visa program, I'm not sure what is.

---

It must be disheartening for your daughter to teach children whose parents have more ambitious careers for them than becoming a kindergarten teacher.

---

The company they work for won a lottery of a system they cheat to not have to pay Americans, please show me the ambition?

---

Across the US, immigrant parents have historically shown higher career aspirations for their children than native born parents. They emphasize education and professional success. Not too many Indian or Asian families are seen pushing their daughters into college to obtain an MRS degree.

---

Getting a technical degree with their education isn't the only sign of ambition. In India it is the ONLY way to become successful.

In US it isn't. Our education sees value in liberal arts. and in fact these people do incredibly well when they choose the right liberal arts degree and then follow that up with technical graduate degrees or on the job experince.

In the US first generational wealth comes from technical degrees. Second and third generational wealth seeks broader educational experiences that serve them well.

---

I am a warrior, so that my son may be a merchant, so that his son may be a poet. - JQA


I suspect we have a population of poets trying to compete with warriors

---

India is literally the country with the least amount of warrior mentality in all of the world.

infinity ag said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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So is it settled on whether the $100K is a one time only fee for new jobs only or a $100K fee every year?

The administration has said 2 different things...

---

Impacts maybe 1% of H1Bs. Not 100%.

Idiots running our country pulled a fast one on US.

---

It doesn't impact existing H1s, but it almost guarantees that there will be no new H1s at least this year. And for people on OPTs.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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I've posted this before, but I did an MBA in the late 2010s and for the hell of it, I did an "introduction to statistical learning" class (basically intro to ML and AI) over at the engineering school in my last semester. It's been awhile so I don't remember the exact number, but something like 80-90% of the class was Indian or Asian. In the class of ~100, probably 10 were white. It was shocking. Americans just weren't interested.

Other observations echo this.
-Half of Zuck's AI super intelligence team is Chinese and another ~25% is foreign born (I can promise you he isn't pinching pennies with those guys).
-China is graduating close to twice as many STEM PhDs as the US (and the number is closer to 3x if you exclude the foreign exchange students that many on here want to send home immediately).
-In recent years, immigrants have founded close to half of the US's unicorn startups.


When i dispassionately look at the numbers, they tell me we need to be extremely cautious with our treatment of foreign white collar workers. Sure some of them are rubbish workers (just like native born workers), but some of the largest contributions to our economy have been made by foreigners, and their contributions to some of the most critical industries (most notably AI) seem to exceed those of native born American workers. I'll be blunt: we can't win an AI race against China without foreign talent. Our pipeline just isn't there.

---

Seems like prioritizing the highest paid immigrants and charging a fee wouldn't completely cut off the supply of truly talented folks who will make this a better place. With the current program, these unicorns are dwarfed in numbers by the seat fillers.

Also, do you think more US students would consider STEM if they had more assurance that waves of immigrants wouldn't be imported to suppress their salaries?

Quote:

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Also, do you think more US students would consider STEM if they had more assurance that waves of immigrants wouldn't be imported to suppress their salaries?

---

Colleges are graduating more females than males, and females are less likely to get a degree in engineering, the hard sciences, or even computer science. (I'm not trying to suggest that they can't do the work, just that females tend to prefer other majors.)

Are students dropping out of STEM majors and related career opportunities because of lower wage expectations versus other careers? I'm not sure there's evidence of this. I think it's more likely that the students either lack the necessary academic skillset or are unwilling to put in the required work to earn such degrees.

I would argue that this lack of giving a **** probably started at home and was reinforced by a public school system with grade inflation and lowering of academic standards. But that's an argument for a different thread.

WestAustinAg said:

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tysker said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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tysker said:

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samurai_science said:

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tysker said:

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Keller6Ag91 said:

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As a reminder, my daughter, who is a kindergarten teacher in Frisco, now has 16 of her 17 students from India. The 17th is from Hispanic background.

If that isn't an idictment of our H1B1 Visa program, I'm not sure what is.

---

It must be disheartening for your daughter to teach children whose parents have more ambitious careers for them than becoming a kindergarten teacher.

---

The company they work for won a lottery of a system they cheat to not have to pay Americans, please show me the ambition?

---

Across the US, immigrant parents have historically shown higher career aspirations for their children than native born parents. They emphasize education and professional success. Not too many Indian or Asian families are seen pushing their daughters into college to obtain an MRS degree.

---

Getting a technical degree with their education isn't the only sign of ambition. In India it is the ONLY way to become successful.

In US it isn't. Our education sees value in liberal arts. and in fact these people do incredibly well when they choose the right liberal arts degree and then follow that up with technical graduate degrees or on the job experince.

In the US first generational wealth comes from technical degrees. Second and third generational wealth seeks broader educational experiences that serve them well.

---

I am a warrior, so that my son may be a merchant, so that his son may be a poet. - JQA


I suspect we have a population of poets trying to compete with warriors

---

India is literally the country with the least amount of warrior mentality in all of the world.

---

Maybe not warriors, but I suspect there are plenty of grinders who are willing to work. I know it's a bit of a joke, but there's some truth to the fact that China is moving away from 996 and toward a 007 for some upper echelon jobs.

tysker said:

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Quote:

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Also, do you think more US students would consider STEM if they had more assurance that waves of immigrants wouldn't be imported to suppress their salaries?

---

Colleges are graduating more females than males, and females are less likely to get a degree in engineering, the hard sciences, or even computer science. (I'm not trying to suggest that they can't do the work, just that females tend to prefer other majors.)

Are students dropping out of STEM majors and related career opportunities because of lower wage expectations versus other careers? I'm not sure there's evidence of this. I think it's more likely that the students either lack the necessary academic skillset or are unwilling to put in the required work to earn such degrees.

I would argue that this lack of giving a **** probably started at home and was reinforced by a public school system with grade inflation and lowering of academic standards. But that's an argument for a different thread.

---

Work effort matters and this generation of kids decided that social media was more important than studying science and math. I'm overly and dramatically generalizing this but makes you wonder.

We need more kids in trades. That's a fact.

tysker said:

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infinity ag said:

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tysker said:

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infinity ag said:

---

tysker said:

---

Quote:

---

, not push up the neighbor's (India) kids.

---

Our neighbor's kids are Americans and it's not their fault that they have parents who are more interested in their children's careers and educational outcomes.

---

The issue is not American kids (any race). The issue is giving foreigners jobs in US companies when qualified Americans cannot get them.

Just wrong. Stop muddying and derailing.

---

And how many jobs is that roughly? As I noted above, there were about 7.2 million job openings in July.

The issue of children in the classroom is a side effect and, according to the poster, an "indictment" of the program and immigration policy, so it seems relevant. Especially given the lack of academic achievement from native-born families. There's no clear pathway for these STEM-based jobs to get filled, given the volume of Education majors and 'studies' majors, even with the high wages being paid.

---

I am not sure if you are naive or trying to obfuscate.

Agencies lie a lot, if there are 7.2M real openings, there would be no one looking for jobs on Linkedin. The real number is far lower and the problem is US citizens are pushed out in favor of foreigners.

---

Facts and figures are not obfuscation, but rather valuable in determining the importance of the situation.
What 'real number is far lower?' Job openings?

Again, how many "US citizens are pushed out in favor of foreigners" roughly?

---

I don't have numbers and neither do you.

There are many people I know (US citizens) who are looking and cannot get a call. There are 700k H1Bs in the country working (if not they would be out).

Figure it out.

WestAustinAg said:

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tysker said:

---

WestAustinAg said:

---

tysker said:

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samurai_science said:

---

tysker said:

---

Keller6Ag91 said:

---

As a reminder, my daughter, who is a kindergarten teacher in Frisco, now has 16 of her 17 students from India. The 17th is from Hispanic background.

If that isn't an idictment of our H1B1 Visa program, I'm not sure what is.

---

It must be disheartening for your daughter to teach children whose parents have more ambitious careers for them than becoming a kindergarten teacher.

---

The company they work for won a lottery of a system they cheat to not have to pay Americans, please show me the ambition?

---

Across the US, immigrant parents have historically shown higher career aspirations for their children than native born parents. They emphasize education and professional success. Not too many Indian or Asian families are seen pushing their daughters into college to obtain an MRS degree.

---

Getting a technical degree with their education isn't the only sign of ambition. In India it is the ONLY way to become successful.

In US it isn't. Our education sees value in liberal arts. and in fact these people do incredibly well when they choose the right liberal arts degree and then follow that up with technical graduate degrees or on the job experince.

In the US first generational wealth comes from technical degrees. Second and third generational wealth seeks broader educational experiences that serve them well.

---

I am a warrior, so that my son may be a merchant, so that his son may be a poet. - JQA


I suspect we have a population of poets trying to compete with warriors

---

India is literally the country with the least amount of warrior mentality in all of the world.

---

If you believe this, you have no knowledge of history. Read up, and leave prejudices at home.

deddog said:

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infinity ag said:

---

WestAustinAg said:

---

So is it settled on whether the $100K is a one time only fee for new jobs only or a $100K fee every year?

The administration has said 2 different things...

---

Impacts maybe 1% of H1Bs. Not 100%.

Idiots running our country pulled a fast one on US.

---

It doesn't impact existing H1s, but it almost guarantees that there will be no new H1s at least this year. And for people on OPTs.

---

I think it impacts from 2026 onward. So the 2025 batch will be in. Unless they are already in so it won't matter.

McNasty said:

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Deputy Travis Junior said:

---

I've posted this before, but I did an MBA in the late 2010s and for the hell of it, I did an "introduction to statistical learning" class (basically intro to ML and AI) over at the engineering school in my last semester. It's been awhile so I don't remember the exact number, but something like 80-90% of the class was Indian or Asian. In the class of ~100, probably 10 were white. It was shocking. Americans just weren't interested.

Other observations echo this.
-Half of Zuck's AI super intelligence team is Chinese and another ~25% is foreign born (I can promise you he isn't pinching pennies with those guys).
-China is graduating close to twice as many STEM PhDs as the US (and the number is closer to 3x if you exclude the foreign exchange students that many on here want to send home immediately).
-In recent years, immigrants have founded close to half of the US's unicorn startups.


When i dispassionately look at the numbers, they tell me we need to be extremely cautious with our treatment of foreign white collar workers. Sure some of them are rubbish workers (just like native born workers), but some of the largest contributions to our economy have been made by foreigners, and their contributions to some of the most critical industries (most notably AI) seem to exceed those of native born American workers. I'll be blunt: we can't win an AI race against China without foreign talent. Our pipeline just isn't there.

---

Seems like prioritizing the highest paid immigrants and charging a fee wouldn't completely cut off the supply of truly talented folks who will make this a better place. With the current program, these unicorns are dwarfed in numbers by the seat fillers.

Also, do you think more US students would consider STEM if they had more assurance that waves of immigrants wouldn't be imported to suppress their salaries?

---

Exactly.
A lot of gymnastics going on in this thread.
The companies killed the American pipeline for 30 years in favor of foreign labor to save money and now are saying we need to hire foreigners because we don't have any Americans. There are tons of Americans, they just cannot get a job or give up or avoid STEM totally because of the discrimination. I know, I am in the industry.

infinity ag said:

---

WestAustinAg said:

---

India is literally the country with the least amount of warrior mentality in all of the world.

---

If you believe this, you have no knowledge of history. Read up, and leave prejudices at home.

---

I work in tech. In the most important, at the very bleeding edge of technology there is in tech. I know what i'm talking about.

infinity ag said:

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McNasty said:

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Seems like prioritizing the highest paid immigrants and charging a fee wouldn't completely cut off the supply of truly talented folks who will make this a better place. With the current program, these unicorns are dwarfed in numbers by the seat fillers.

Also, do you think more US students would consider STEM if they had more assurance that waves of immigrants wouldn't be imported to suppress their salaries?

---

Exactly.
A lot of gymnastics going on in this thread.
The companies killed the American pipeline for 30 years in favor of foreign labor to save money and now are saying we need to hire foreigners because we don't have any Americans. There are tons of Americans, they just cannot get a job or give up or avoid STEM totally because of the discrimination. I know, I am in the industry.

---

Agree. Tech companies aren't hiring our sw coding grads right now. There's a glut of them trying to find jobs.

tysker said:

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samurai_science said:

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infinity ag said:

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tysker said:

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How many children of immigrants have asked for student loan forgiveness? Children of immigrant families are highly underrepresented in education and in majors that end in 'studies'

---

I know some have but they are not from India. Indian immigrants are generally engineers, MBAs or doctors. They are not on welfare.

But I don't see your point.

You cannot allow an invasive species into an ecology in large numbers and hope everything will be alright.

---

He's trying hard to ignore the non merit based lottery applications used to replace America workers and argue with unproven concepts like "ambition ". It's weak

---

Do you have any evidence that there is "replacement" of American workers by these non-merit lottery winners? You're aware there are caps to these programs, right? Caps brought to you by our friends from the Democratic Party at the behest of labor unions


eta: According to USCIS, there were about 127,600 lottery winners in 2023 and 188,400 in 2024. Given that there were approximately 7.2 million job openings in July, and over 400,000 manufacturing jobs were available. I dont see how you conclude lottery winners are taking a significant portion of available jobs as a replacement for native-born workers

---

You can't look at the full 7.2 million jobs open. You have to look at the industries that most H1B holders are going into. In particular, tech industry has been hit very hard by unemployment. And I saw figures that put the percentage of H1B holders in the tech industry at 17%. 17% of all tech positions in the US are held by H1B immigrants. That's insane!!!

WestAustinAg said:

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infinity ag said:

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McNasty said:

---

Seems like prioritizing the highest paid immigrants and charging a fee wouldn't completely cut off the supply of truly talented folks who will make this a better place. With the current program, these unicorns are dwarfed in numbers by the seat fillers.

Also, do you think more US students would consider STEM if they had more assurance that waves of immigrants wouldn't be imported to suppress their salaries?

---

Exactly.
A lot of gymnastics going on in this thread.
The companies killed the American pipeline for 30 years in favor of foreign labor to save money and now are saying we need to hire foreigners because we don't have any Americans. There are tons of Americans, they just cannot get a job or give up or avoid STEM totally because of the discrimination. I know, I am in the industry.

---

Agree. Tech companies aren't hiring our sw coding grads right now. There's a glut of them trying to find jobs.

---

It's not a great economy. Biden's 4 years were absolute *****
Trump is trying to reduce government, but he's really not done anything major either. Stopping H1s is a band aid and there's only so far you can go with executive actions.

Congress is the one ****ing this country over, but they are too busy enriching themselves to care.

WestAustinAg said:

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infinity ag said:

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McNasty said:

---

Seems like prioritizing the highest paid immigrants and charging a fee wouldn't completely cut off the supply of truly talented folks who will make this a better place. With the current program, these unicorns are dwarfed in numbers by the seat fillers.

Also, do you think more US students would consider STEM if they had more assurance that waves of immigrants wouldn't be imported to suppress their salaries?

---

Exactly.
A lot of gymnastics going on in this thread.
The companies killed the American pipeline for 30 years in favor of foreign labor to save money and now are saying we need to hire foreigners because we don't have any Americans. There are tons of Americans, they just cannot get a job or give up or avoid STEM totally because of the discrimination. I know, I am in the industry.

---

Agree. Tech companies aren't hiring our sw coding grads right now. There's a glut of them trying to find jobs.

---

They aren't hiring anyone in the US.
They are just shifting jobs to India, South America, and Eastern Europe.

McNasty said:

---

Also, do you think more US students would consider STEM if they had more assurance that waves of immigrants wouldn't be imported to suppress their salaries?

---

What's your alternative hypothesis? That they're afraid of competing against foreigners for STEM jobs so they instead pursue liberal arts degrees that lead to low paying barista jobs? I'm not buying it.

This board is schizo. On one thread, people will note the rampant grade inflation at colleges, the plummeting rates of competency at reading and math (something like 2/3 are performing below grade level), the wild senses of entitlement, and the inability to cope with any discomfort (probably half the recent college graduates in the US believe that mean words are violence), then on threads like this we have people ranting that these same people who are lazy, entitled, and performing skills well below level can't get jobs.

Ask yourself: would you rather hire a hungry foreigner who's willing to work 10 hour days to prove himself or that girl who spent 4 years at Stanford after submitting an essay that just said black lives matter over and over (and she probably spent her last year harassing Jewish students)? We all know the answer but we're in such a nationalistic tizzy that we are trying to pretend that the two aren't related. I'm sure we can improve our immigration system but it is an uncomfortable, undeniable fact that the quality of the average American student is dropping. This WILL impact hiring.

If we cut off access to smarter more motivated foreign students, we're ceding our lead in tech.

AJ02 said:

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tysker said:

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samurai_science said:

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infinity ag said:

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tysker said:

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How many children of immigrants have asked for student loan forgiveness? Children of immigrant families are highly underrepresented in education and in majors that end in 'studies'

---

I know some have but they are not from India. Indian immigrants are generally engineers, MBAs or doctors. They are not on welfare.

But I don't see your point.

You cannot allow an invasive species into an ecology in large numbers and hope everything will be alright.

---

He's trying hard to ignore the non merit based lottery applications used to replace America workers and argue with unproven concepts like "ambition ". It's weak

---

Do you have any evidence that there is "replacement" of American workers by these non-merit lottery winners? You're aware there are caps to these programs, right? Caps brought to you by our friends from the Democratic Party at the behest of labor unions


eta: According to USCIS, there were about 127,600 lottery winners in 2023 and 188,400 in 2024. Given that there were approximately 7.2 million job openings in July, and over 400,000 manufacturing jobs were available. I dont see how you conclude lottery winners are taking a significant portion of available jobs as a replacement for native-born workers

---

You can't look at the full 7.2 million jobs open. You have to look at the industries that most H1B holders are going into. In particular, tech industry has been hit very hard by unemployment. And I saw figures that put the percentage of H1B holders in the tech industry at 17%. 17% of all tech positions in the US are held by H1B immigrants. That's insane!!!

---

So the tech industry has been hit hard with unemployment, and there's a glut of coding grads trying to find jobs?
From the outside, this appears to be a skills mismatch problem.

A quick search from chatgpt returns these stats, suggesting 17% isn't out of line with other industries:

• About 28% of physicians and surgeons in the U.S. are foreign-trained.
• Nurses: ~17-20% are foreign-born, with higher shares in certain states.
• Roughly 70% of farmworkers in the U.S. are immigrants, many on H-2A visas or undocumented
• Immigrant workers make up about 20-25% of the U.S. construction workforce.
• Hotels, restaurants, and domestic work: immigrants often 25-40% of the workforce, depending on region.

Are you going to raise the fees for all of these visas as well? How about we cut to the chase and simply reduce welfare benefits that disincentive labor force participation. The wider scale issue is an uneducated & lazy workforce problem exasperated by entitlements

Quote:

---

Ask yourself: would you rather hire a hungry foreigner who's willing to work 10 hour days to prove himself or that girl who spent 4 years at Stanford after submitting an essay that just said black lives matter over and over (and she probably spent her last year harassing Jewish students)?

---

How about a good American that's proven in the field they are applying for, with years of actual experience? The one replaced by an H1B down the street?

There are more than 2 ****ty choices.

Science Denier said:

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Quote:

---

Ask yourself: would you rather hire a hungry foreigner who's willing to work 10 hour days to prove himself or that girl who spent 4 years at Stanford after submitting an essay that just said black lives matter over and over (and she probably spent her last year harassing Jewish students)?

---

How about a good American that's proven in the field they are applying for, with years of actual experience? The one replaced by an H1B down the street?

There are more than 2 ****ty choices.

---

How would an experienced, proven applicant be so easily replaced by an H1-B? Is that common in the technology hiring space? It certainly isn't in my world of finance and fintech.

If the work product is the same, I'm probably hiring the employee who gives the better ROI.

tysker said:

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Science Denier said:

---

Quote:

---

Ask yourself: would you rather hire a hungry foreigner who's willing to work 10 hour days to prove himself or that girl who spent 4 years at Stanford after submitting an essay that just said black lives matter over and over (and she probably spent her last year harassing Jewish students)?

---

How about a good American that's proven in the field they are applying for, with years of actual experience? The one replaced by an H1B down the street?

There are more than 2 ****ty choices.

---

How would an experienced, proven applicant be so easily replaced by an H1-B? Is that common in the technology hiring space? It certainly isn't in my world of finance and fintech.

If the work product is the same, I'm probably hiring the employee who gives the better ROI.

---

Tons of actual workers are being replaced by H1B workers because they are cheaper. Not because some ding dong you described.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

---

I've posted this before, but I did an MBA in the late 2010s and for the hell of it, I did an "introduction to statistical learning" class (basically intro to ML and AI) over at the engineering school in my last semester. It's been awhile so I don't remember the exact number, but something like 80-90% of the class was Indian or Asian. In the class of ~100, probably 10 were white. It was shocking. Americans just weren't interested.

Other observations echo this.
-Half of Zuck's AI super intelligence team is Chinese and another ~25% is foreign born (I can promise you he isn't pinching pennies with those guys).
-China is graduating close to twice as many STEM PhDs as the US (and the number is closer to 3x if you exclude the foreign exchange students that many on here want to send home immediately).
-In recent years, immigrants have founded close to half of the US's unicorn startups.


When i dispassionately look at the numbers, they tell me we need to be extremely cautious with our treatment of foreign white collar workers. Sure some of them are rubbish workers (just like native born workers), but some of the largest contributions to our economy have been made by foreigners, and their contributions to some of the most critical industries (most notably AI) seem to exceed those of native born American workers. I'll be blunt: we can't win an AI race against China without foreign talent. Our pipeline just isn't there.

---

There are a myriad of men on X who have had their careers derailed by foreigners. Stop with these lies.

Each one of these guys is worth 20 of these H1-Bs.

If we needed foreigners so badly then why was the height of American innovation all prior to the current foreign invasion?

I'm sure they're taking some jobs from qualified workers, but they're also filling openings that we can't fill because our graduate quality is declining.

Lies? Please point out which item that I wrote is a lie.

Science Denier said:

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tysker said:

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Science Denier said:

---

Quote:

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Ask yourself: would you rather hire a hungry foreigner who's willing to work 10 hour days to prove himself or that girl who spent 4 years at Stanford after submitting an essay that just said black lives matter over and over (and she probably spent her last year harassing Jewish students)?

---

How about a good American that's proven in the field they are applying for, with years of actual experience? The one replaced by an H1B down the street?

There are more than 2 ****ty choices.

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How would an experienced, proven applicant be so easily replaced by an H1-B? Is that common in the technology hiring space? It certainly isn't in my world of finance and fintech.

If the work product is the same, I'm probably hiring the employee who gives the better ROI.

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Tons of actual workers are being replaced by H1B workers because they are cheaper. Not because some ding dong you described.

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This doesn't happen in the way you describe it, but it has a similar effect.

There are two common ways in which H1s take American jobs
1. The US company hires consultants instead of hiring FTEs. The driving factor is the expense related to an FTE and until this is solved, we are just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
This is the majority of H1s and it's why TCS, Infosys, Accenture, HCL, Sapient etc. have the majority of H1s issued.

2. Companies list their job and compensation range. H1Bs will accept the lower range of a compensation range, so all other things being equal, companies will hire the cheaper employee

It's very rare (i've never seen it) that companies will replace or reject american employees with an H1B. The return just isn't there. They will however, happily outsource that job to someone else to "keep expenses down"

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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I'm sure they're taking some jobs from qualified workers, but they're also filling openings that we can't fill because our graduate quality is declining.

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This has been the case with every single one of the H1s we've hired over the last 30 years at a number of different companies.
Given that, I haven't worked at behemoths like Dell, and Oracle.

deddog said:

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Science Denier said:

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tysker said:

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Science Denier said:

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Quote:

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Ask yourself: would you rather hire a hungry foreigner who's willing to work 10 hour days to prove himself or that girl who spent 4 years at Stanford after submitting an essay that just said black lives matter over and over (and she probably spent her last year harassing Jewish students)?

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How about a good American that's proven in the field they are applying for, with years of actual experience? The one replaced by an H1B down the street?

There are more than 2 ****ty choices.

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How would an experienced, proven applicant be so easily replaced by an H1-B? Is that common in the technology hiring space? It certainly isn't in my world of finance and fintech.

If the work product is the same, I'm probably hiring the employee who gives the better ROI.

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Tons of actual workers are being replaced by H1B workers because they are cheaper. Not because some ding dong you described.

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This doesn't happen in the way you describe it, but it has a similar effect.

There are two common ways in which H1s take American jobs
1. The US company hires consultants instead of hiring FTEs. The driving factor is the expense related to an FTE and until this is solved, we are just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
This is the majority of H1s and it's why TCS, Infosys, Accenture, HCL, Sapient etc. have the majority of H1s issued.

2. Companies list their job and compensation range. H1Bs will accept the lower range of a compensation range, so all other things being equal, companies will hire the cheaper employee

It's very rare (i've never seen it) that companies will replace or reject american employees with an H1B. The return just isn't there. They will however, happily outsource that job to someone else to "keep expenses down"

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Google search "I had to train my H1B replacement".

tysker said:

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Keller6Ag91 said:

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As a reminder, my daughter, who is a kindergarten teacher in Frisco, now has 16 of her 17 students from India. The 17th is from Hispanic background.

If that isn't an idictment of our H1B1 Visa program, I'm not sure what is.

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It must be disheartening for your daughter to teach children whose parents have more ambitious careers for them than becoming a kindergarten teacher.

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What a crappy comment. That was my thought, not hers. She gladly teaches and loves whomever comes in her room.

tysker said:

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samurai_science said:

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tysker said:

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samurai_science said:

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tysker said:

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Keller6Ag91 said:

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As a reminder, my daughter, who is a kindergarten teacher in Frisco, now has 16 of her 17 students from India. The 17th is from Hispanic background.

If that isn't an idictment of our H1B1 Visa program, I'm not sure what is.

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It must be disheartening for your daughter to teach children whose parents have more ambitious careers for them than becoming a kindergarten teacher.

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The company they work for won a lottery of a system they cheat to not have to pay Americans, please show me the ambition?

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Across the US, immigrant parents have historically shown higher career aspirations for their children than native born parents. They emphasize education and professional success. Not too many Indian or Asian families are seen pushing their daughters into college to obtain an MRS degree.

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Still no proof they are more ambitious but we know we are not getting the best because it's not merit based. It's a lottery system being gamed by corrupt companies for other companies to pay lower wages.

Indians companies being investigated and indicted is a thing

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They were ambitious enough not to obtain a degree in education

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You're a real piece of work. Highly disappointed you're an Aggie. I have 4 daughters, 1 in ministry, 2 teaching, and one more at A&M pursuing an Elementary Ed degree.

And you're a judgy individual whom I'm now going to turn the other cheek instead of saying what I really what to say.

Had dinner with a great group of consultants from a large tech firm, and we talked about this. Their general consensus (all from India) was that Trump threw our a ridiculous and unclear proposal, they freaked out, then he'll land on something they all found was acceptable. Half of them are citizens now.

infinity ag said:

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Ozzy Osbourne said:

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Here we go again…

White House says doctors may win reprieve from H-1B visa fee, per FORTUNE

— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) September 23, 2025

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Nice.

Now no need to go to Harvard and Stanford for a medical degree and rack up a million dollars of debt. Just go to Siramakrishanpura Medical College in Tamlatora Chennai for peanuts, come to the US without any debt, charge low, undercut American doctors and put them out of business and deeper in debt.

American Boomer politicians have led this country to doom and continue to do so.

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The peak years for boomers (2000 - 2005) approx 35% of eligible voters were boomers.

2025: about 24% of eligible voters were boomers.

1) Boomers may vote more than other generations, but whose fault is that?
2) Trump would not have been my first choice, but very thankful he won.

Where were the younger voters and younger candidates?

Every time you think you are calling out boomers, you are actually pissing on other gens. If you are a boomer, I find it a bit annoying for thier sakes. If you are not a boomer; the taste of your tears is sweet. But it is hard to fathom how you could be so unaware.

tysker said:

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AJ02 said:

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tysker said:

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samurai_science said:

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infinity ag said:

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tysker said:

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How many children of immigrants have asked for student loan forgiveness? Children of immigrant families are highly underrepresented in education and in majors that end in 'studies'

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I know some have but they are not from India. Indian immigrants are generally engineers, MBAs or doctors. They are not on welfare.

But I don't see your point.

You cannot allow an invasive species into an ecology in large numbers and hope everything will be alright.

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He's trying hard to ignore the non merit based lottery applications used to replace America workers and argue with unproven concepts like "ambition ". It's weak

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Do you have any evidence that there is "replacement" of American workers by these non-merit lottery winners? You're aware there are caps to these programs, right? Caps brought to you by our friends from the Democratic Party at the behest of labor unions


eta: According to USCIS, there were about 127,600 lottery winners in 2023 and 188,400 in 2024. Given that there were approximately 7.2 million job openings in July, and over 400,000 manufacturing jobs were available. I dont see how you conclude lottery winners are taking a significant portion of available jobs as a replacement for native-born workers

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You can't look at the full 7.2 million jobs open. You have to look at the industries that most H1B holders are going into. In particular, tech industry has been hit very hard by unemployment. And I saw figures that put the percentage of H1B holders in the tech industry at 17%. 17% of all tech positions in the US are held by H1B immigrants. That's insane!!!

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So the tech industry has been hit hard with unemployment, and there's a glut of coding grads trying to find jobs?
From the outside, this appears to be a skills mismatch problem.

A quick search from chatgpt returns these stats, suggesting 17% isn't out of line with other industries:

• About 28% of physicians and surgeons in the U.S. are foreign-trained.
• Nurses: ~17-20% are foreign-born, with higher shares in certain states.
• Roughly 70% of farmworkers in the U.S. are immigrants, many on H-2A visas or undocumented
• Immigrant workers make up about 20-25% of the U.S. construction workforce.
• Hotels, restaurants, and domestic work: immigrants often 25-40% of the workforce, depending on region.

Are you going to raise the fees for all of these visas as well? How about we cut to the chase and simply reduce welfare benefits that disincentive labor force participation. The wider scale issue is an uneducated & lazy workforce problem exasperated by entitlements

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You really like to paint with a broad brush, huh? No concept of nuance.

Yes, the percentage of H1Bs in healthcare is higher, but the healthcare industry in general is not seeing mass layoffs and is actually experiencing a shortage of doctors (see my earlier post about unions pushing to reduce residency numbers, which caused a shortage of doctors because there just aren't enough residency spots available for grads).

Farmworkers, hotels, restaurants, and domestic workers are typically on H2 VISAs not H1B. It even says that right in the text you copied and pasted but I guess didn't bother to read first. H2 visas are typically for low skill jobs which again....not the same as H1B. So you're comparing apples to oranges here.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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McNasty said:

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Also, do you think more US students would consider STEM if they had more assurance that waves of immigrants wouldn't be imported to suppress their salaries?

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What's your alternative hypothesis? That they're afraid of competing against foreigners for STEM jobs so they instead pursue liberal arts degrees that lead to low paying barista jobs? I'm not buying it.

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You are describing exactly what has happened in the IT industry. I know lots of bright HS grads who are going into finance with the state of the STEM job market. All these kids are doing a risk / reward assessment, and lower salaries from h1b factors into that.