Rapier108 said:

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So how bad will the stock market bloodbath be on Monday?

Would not be surprised to see 10-13-25 being labeled another "Black Monday".

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That would be very nice

infinity ag said:

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BigRobSA said:

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infinity ag said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Fishing Fools said:

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Why don't you wish that China would play fair?

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How is taxing US citizens more going to do that?

To bring mfg back we need to deregulate massively and cut taxes. Also, to bolster the economy, gut spending. You know, conservative ideals in lieu of liberal ones like tariffs/taxes.

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"deregulate", everyone's wet dream but it won't work. It just gives more chance for crooked corp CEOs to misuse and make money.

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Bull****

The entire reason we are here is due to govt regulating away businesses of all types, not the least of which: mfg.

That and overtaxing

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Yeah sure, remove all regs that control these greedy selfish CEOs. What are you smoking man.

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Regulations are what drove the businesses away. Yes. Deregulate like a mofo. Anything else is sofa king ruhtarded to even contemplate.

Reverse direction, don't double-down on idiotic liberal policies.

You really need to give up this idiotic anti-CEO schtick. There's more to this than "Evil CEOs", and that is government interfering in everything and that "everything" ending up FUBAR'd, thusly.

The media has done such a terrible job explaining what is going on (big surprise there). The most concise story that I have seen (from the WSJ):

Quote:

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On Thursday, China announced new, wide-ranging export controls on rare earths, which are vital components for high-tech manufacturing. The controls were so extensive they could cause a US recession if implemented aggressively, according to a former White House adviser. President Trump reacted strongly on Friday, suggesting he may cancel a planned meeting with Chinese leader Xi Jinping and threatening ""a massive increase of Tariffs on Chinese products."

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The dynamics of these pieces might be a little too much for those with TDS to understand.

I don't believe regs led to offshoring.

W Bush let China into the WTO in 2001.

All the MBA's decided that China was the largest emerging market ever and US mfgs decided that they had to off shore to meet the Asia demand. All throughout the 00's

It might have been the largest, biggest dumb ass move ever. All the Chinamen did is steal our IP and now you see some have have reshored or near shored(Mexico) manufacturing.

The Bush family has been the biggest dumb ass mother ****ers history has ever seen.

Rare earths are not all that rare. It's the ability to extract and process that is annoying. The processing generally is energy intensive and can cause quite a bit of pollution, which is why a lot of it was farmed out to China because they don't give a crap about the environment. The lack of real teeth of environmental regulation and massive government subsidies have led them to now control 90% of the processing and refining market. They do not control the majority of the world deposits, just the refining and processing infrastructure.

We have huge known deposits here in Colorado, Wyoming, and California and likely a lot more. Recent research has shown that the shale layers near coal seams are often rich in rare earths.

https://attheu.utah.edu/research/can-coal-mines-be-tapped-for-rare-earth-elements/

A lot of research and development is going into tapping into existing coal mines.

Yep. Hate to say it but the hippies protesting the WTO during that time were completely right. China promised all sorts of reforms and didn't deliver on any of it. No one in the US really cared because they were providing cheap manufacturing and there was still belief that there would be eventual government reform over there due to increased prosperity and trade.

Well, the tariffs are shifting some work to domestic manufacturers.

Had some recent manufacturing work at my company go to a domestic supplier because of import tariffs.

AtticusMatlock said:

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Yep. Hate to say it but the hippies protesting the WTO during that time were completely right. China promised all sorts of reforms and didn't deliver on any of it. No one in the US really cared because they were providing cheap manufacturing and there was still belief that there would be eventual government reform over there due to increased prosperity and trade.

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My experience was that US CEO's thought they could capitalize on an emerging market. Didn't work out like they thought as exact copies were coming over and taking their domestic market share.

I agree. The dumb ass Bushs thought we could poison Chinamen w/ our culture. Turns out they have poisoned us with theirs...

Gator92 said:

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I don't believe regs led to offshoring.

W Bush let China into the WTO in 2001.

All the MBA's decided that China was the largest emerging market ever and US mfgs decided that they had to off shore to meet the Asia demand. All throughout the 00's

It might have been the largest, biggest dumb ass move ever. All the Chinamen did is steal our IP and now you see some have have reshored or near shored(Mexico) manufacturing.

The Bush family has been the biggest dumb ass mother ****ers history has ever seen.

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You would be wrong. It's not ONLY regulations, but that's what we can reverse. Yes, other idiotic moves by the govt exacerbated things, but regs and tax rates being high were the main culprits. Even before any Bush moronicity.

I'm not wrong.

I lived it. Wether or not they believed it, the MBA's were telling everyone that they had to move mfg to China B/C it was the largest emerging market ever. Greed said they'd make more money.

Please tell me what regs led to offshoring in the 00's...

Gator92 said:

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I'm not wrong.

I lived it. Wether or not they believed it, the MBA's were telling everyone that they had to move mfg to China B/C it was the largest emerging market ever. Greed said they'd make more money.

Please tell me what regs led to offshoring in the 00's...

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Offshoring began well before the 00's, young'n.

I lived it too....in the 90s.

What regulations?

All of them. Environmental, legal, tax regs, etc.

We pushed mfg out of the country via regulations and taxes when W was doing lines of coke and sippin' dat syrup.

It was super charged in the 00's when Bush let the Chinamen into the WTO.

Companies I represented either moved mfg to China or sold to companies that did.

We used to mfg fasteners in this country. Fastener mfg moved to China after Bush let Chinamen into the WTO.

Ever heard of a tek screw? Self drilling or self tapping screw? The mfg I represented innovated them. They sold it off and all the machines to make them were shipped to China. This all happened in the early 00's when Bush let China into the WTO.

The entire fastener industry has been outsourced to China.

Had nothing to do w/ regs and you have citied nothing to support your position...

Gator92 said:

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It was super charged in the 00's when Bush let the Chinamen into the WTO.

Companies I represented either moved mfg to China or sold to companies that did.

We used to mfg fasteners in this country. Fastener mfg moved to China after Bush let Chinamen into the WTO.

Ever heard of a tek screw? Self drilling or self tapping screw? The mfg I represented innovated them. They sold it off and all the machines to make them were shipped to China. This all happened in the early 00's when Bush let China into the WTO.

The entire fastener industry has been outsourced to China.

Had nothing to do w/ regs and you have citied nothing to support your position...

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Cool story bro. I don't deny idiocy, even at the mgmnt level, being part of the equation. It's simply something we can't reverse.

If you were alive in the 80s and 90s, you shouldn't need anything "citied". Govt has created an impasse in every market, be it mfg (which I'm in) or healthcare, or any other available market. The 00's also brought about idiocy like Sarbanes-Oxley (thanks to W and friends, too) , which pushed companies out because of high compliance costs. High taxes added to the hurdles.

Again, THAT we can reverse, not the idiocy of management morons smelling their own farts.

Rapier108 said:

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So how bad will the stock market bloodbath be on Monday?

Would not be surprised to see 10-13-25 being labeled another "Black Monday".

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Oh look another f16 prediction of doom that won't happen

Rare earths are not really rare but "environmental" unfriendly to mine. China doesn't have the restrictions we have therefore they extract the mineral from the rock after we and other countries ship it to them.

bmks270 said:

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Well, the tariffs are shifting some work to domestic manufacturers.

Had some recent manufacturing work at my company go to a domestic supplier because of import tariffs.

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Will the shift be enough to replace every job China was given from American CEOs looking to rake in even higher profits when they sent American jobs overseas?

Apollo79 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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So how bad will the stock market bloodbath be on Monday?

Would not be surprised to see 10-13-25 being labeled another "Black Monday".

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Oh look another f16 prediction of doom that won't happen

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Still waiting for gas and groceries to go down. You know, things Trump and his maga assured everyone that would happen on day one.

I don't know if it's doom, but it's definitely something F16 (magazine) predicted that ten months later still hasn't happened.

5Amp said:

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Rare earths are not really rare but "environmental" unfriendly to mine. China doesn't have the restrictions we have therefore they extract the mineral from the rock after we and other countries ship it to them.

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Yep. If we wanted to mass produce rare earth minerals, look no further than any coal power plant's ash pit. Mine that and we are good to go.

Gap said:

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The media has done such a terrible job explaining what is going on (big surprise there). The most concise story that I have seen (from the WSJ):

Quote:

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On Thursday, China announced new, wide-ranging export controls on rare earths, which are vital components for high-tech manufacturing. The controls were so extensive they could cause a US recession if implemented aggressively, according to a former White House adviser. President Trump reacted strongly on Friday, suggesting he may cancel a planned meeting with Chinese leader Xi Jinping and threatening ""a massive increase of Tariffs on Chinese products."

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The dynamics of these pieces might be a little too much for those with TDS to understand.

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This is a way bigger deal than this board seems to think it is. This is China pushing almost all of their chips in.

Apollo79 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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So how bad will the stock market bloodbath be on Monday?

Would not be surprised to see 10-13-25 being labeled another "Black Monday".

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Oh look another f16 prediction of doom that won't happen

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Larry, you have a real strange obsession with bashing F16.

My favorite is where you said " lol this board told me the loan forgiveness would be shot down by Court another swing and miss!" about 10 seconds before the Supreme Court shot it down.

infinity ag said:

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BigRobSA said:

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infinity ag said:

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BigRobSA said:

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Fishing Fools said:

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Why don't you wish that China would play fair?

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How is taxing US citizens more going to do that?

To bring mfg back we need to deregulate massively and cut taxes. Also, to bolster the economy, gut spending. You know, conservative ideals in lieu of liberal ones like tariffs/taxes.

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"deregulate", everyone's wet dream but it won't work. It just gives more chance for crooked corp CEOs to misuse and make money.

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Bull****

The entire reason we are here is due to govt regulating away businesses of all types, not the least of which: mfg.

That and overtaxing

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Yeah sure, remove all regs that control these greedy selfish CEOs. What are you smoking man.

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This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of economics.

You really think that 100% of CEOs are somehow extra greedy and selfish? You really going with that?

Rapier108 said:

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Apollo79 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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So how bad will the stock market bloodbath be on Monday?

Would not be surprised to see 10-13-25 being labeled another "Black Monday".

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Oh look another f16 prediction of doom that won't happen

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Larry, you have a real strange obsession with bashing F16.

My favorite is where you said " lol this board told me the loan forgiveness would be shot down by Court another swing and miss!" about 10 seconds before the Supreme Court shot it down.

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Typical response attack a factual statement , question will you post on this when it doesn't happen? You didn't even know Monday was a federal holiday


Lulz

I'm already taxed enough.

Our elected officials need to learn to balance the budget without playing games with my spending habits.

Rapier108 said:

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Apollo79 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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So how bad will the stock market bloodbath be on Monday?

Would not be surprised to see 10-13-25 being labeled another "Black Monday".

---

Oh look another f16 prediction of doom that won't happen

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Larry, you have a real strange obsession with bashing F16.

My favorite is where you said " lol this board told me the loan forgiveness would be shot down by Court another swing and miss!" about 10 seconds before the Supreme Court shot it down.

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Also, loan forgiveness still occurred another swing and a miss for f16

TACO will probably keep the stock market from reacting too much.

aTmAg said:

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TACO will probably keep the stock market from reacting too much.

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Trump is so TACO with tariffs he is getting sued to the SC to stop him.

China just negotiating like Trump negotiates. It's all a setup until the November meeting where they agree on something in the middle.

Apollo79 said:

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aTmAg said:

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TACO will probably keep the stock market from reacting too much.

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Trump is so TACO with tariffs he is getting sued to the SC to stop him.

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He is already being sued for this "massive tariff" increase threat? Wow, the court system has gotten fast all of the sudden.

aTmAg said:

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Apollo79 said:

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aTmAg said:

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TACO will probably keep the stock market from reacting too much.

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Trump is so TACO with tariffs he is getting sued to the SC to stop him.

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He is already being sued for this "massive tariff" increase threat? Wow, the court system has gotten fast all of the sudden.

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You seem confused if Trump won't actually implement why is he being sued to take that authority away? I'll hang up and listen

Dan Scott said:

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China just negotiating like Trump negotiates. It's all a setup until the November meeting where they agree on something in the middle.

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At least partially true, if not all the way. The interesting thing here is that they are going after everyone and not just us.

Quote:

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China's Commerce Ministry on Thursday expanded previous export controls by adding a seemingly onerous requirement: Any companyin China or abroadmust get Chinese permission to export certain products that derive more than 0.1% of their value from a rare earth.

The ministry also expanded the list of export-restricted rare earths, and banned their export for use by foreign militaries.

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I'm sure their thinking is to try and have everyone else put pressure on us to concede.

Apollo79 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Apollo79 said:

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aTmAg said:

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TACO will probably keep the stock market from reacting too much.

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Trump is so TACO with tariffs he is getting sued to the SC to stop him.

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He is already being sued for this "massive tariff" increase threat? Wow, the court system has gotten fast all of the sudden.

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You seem confused

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Ditto.


TODAY he is threatening a tariff. A threat that he has made many times and which he usually does not actually go through with. That is why TACO was coined in the first place.

aTmAg said:

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Apollo79 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Apollo79 said:

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aTmAg said:

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TACO will probably keep the stock market from reacting too much.

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Trump is so TACO with tariffs he is getting sued to the SC to stop him.

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He is already being sued for this "massive tariff" increase threat? Wow, the court system has gotten fast all of the sudden.

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You seem confused

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Ditto.


TODAY he is threatening a tariff. A threat that he has made many times and which he usually does not actually go through with. That is why TACO was coined in the first place.

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Simpletons call it TACO others call it negotiations, also you seem to think he hasn't implemented high Tarrifs on countries. India says hello

Apollo79 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Apollo79 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Apollo79 said:

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aTmAg said:

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TACO will probably keep the stock market from reacting too much.

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Trump is so TACO with tariffs he is getting sued to the SC to stop him.

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He is already being sued for this "massive tariff" increase threat? Wow, the court system has gotten fast all of the sudden.

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You seem confused

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Ditto.


TODAY he is threatening a tariff. A threat that he has made many times and which he usually does not actually go through with. That is why TACO was coined in the first place.

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Simpletons call it TACO others call it negotiations, also you seem to think he hasn't implemented high Tarrifs on countries. India says hello

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Simpleton's think this is "negotiation", smart people know that no company is going to build a manufacturing plant due to these tariffs when:

1) Trump TACOs all of the time, and
2) As soon as Trump leaves office, the tariffs are gonna be gone (maybe before if the economy tanks enough).

Trump is not changing the foundational reason why these manufacturers left in the first place. This should be econ 101, but I guess it isn't.

aTmAg said:

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Apollo79 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Apollo79 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Apollo79 said:

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aTmAg said:

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TACO will probably keep the stock market from reacting too much.

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Trump is so TACO with tariffs he is getting sued to the SC to stop him.

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He is already being sued for this "massive tariff" increase threat? Wow, the court system has gotten fast all of the sudden.

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You seem confused

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Ditto.


TODAY he is threatening a tariff. A threat that he has made many times and which he usually does not actually go through with. That is why TACO was coined in the first place.

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Simpletons call it TACO others call it negotiations, also you seem to think he hasn't implemented high Tarrifs on countries. India says hello

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Simpleton's think this is "negotiation", smart people know that no company is going to build a manufacturing plant due to these tariffs when:

1) Trump TACOs all of the time, and
2) As soon as Trump leaves office, the tariffs are gonna be gone (maybe before if the economy tanks enough).

Trump is not changing the foundational reason why these manufacturers left in the first place. This should be econ 101, but I guess it isn't.

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lol you said Trump was Taco he put a 75% Tariff on Indian Tarrifs like I said simpletons .


Also another prediction of the economy taking when that hasn't happened. Care to tell me what the market is up ytd?

aTmAg said:

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Simpleton's think this is "negotiation", smart people know that no company is going to build a manufacturing plant due to these tariffs

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https://medwatch.com/article18626406.ece

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-manufacturing-domestic-tariffs/

https://mynbc15.com/news/nation-world/fact-check-team-us-sees-surge-in-investment-from-corporations-amid-tariff-changes-president-donald-trump-white-house-politics-manufacturing-american-foreign-companies-japanese-businesses-imported-cars-automakers

Ready for crabbing from "no company" to "few companies" in 3... 2... 1...