Teslag said:

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Putin himself said this wouldn't have happened if Trump had been president

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Why do you believe Putin? He literally attacked American forces in Syria with Wagner while Trump was president...

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Out of my entire post, that's what bothers you. OK fine he's lying. My comments about Trump say the same.

annie88 said:

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Teslag said:

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Putin himself said this wouldn't have happened if Trump had been president

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Why do you believe Putin? He literally attacked American forces in Syria with Wagner while Trump was president...

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Out of my entire post, that's what bothers you. OK fine he's lying. My comments about Trump say the same.

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There's been many other instances of Putin leading Trump around by the short hairs. That's just one, though a pretty big one.

annie88 said:

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Teslag said:

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Putin himself said this wouldn't have happened if Trump had been president

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Why do you believe Putin? He literally attacked American forces in Syria with Wagner while Trump was president...

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Out of my entire post, that's what bothers you. OK fine he's lying. My comments about Trump say the same.

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Doesn't "bother" me but it's an important bit of information. Putin is unlike anyone Trump deals with or has dealt with. He's a former KGB officer and unlike others, has the power to destroy the world with the press of a button. There is probably no one on earth versed in deception as well as Putin. He also doesn't particularlly *need* a deal. He's entire goal is to shed himself and his country of western influence. I love Trump and I think his approach can work with 99% of world leaders. But Putin is a different animal.

YouBet said:

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I think some seem to think Putin will be here forever. He's 73. Never know what you are gonna get when he dies.

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I think people are going to look back and think that we had it pretty good with Putin.

I keep telling people "Its Russia man". Look at their history. You are going to always have some crazy **** going on. Putin has been pretty good. We haven't exactly been good faith in anything we've done with Russia.

There was legitimate hope on Russias side after the fall of the USSR that everyone could come together and work together.

Boomers werent forgetting having to hide under their school desk and geographical Russia is still the same USSR.

Yep, not pulling them into the fold was arguably the biggest strategic blunder post USSR there has been. Could have been at least loose allies.

YouBet said:

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Yep, not pulling them into the fold was arguably the biggest strategic blunder post USSR there has been. Could have been at least loose allies.

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LOL

shiftyandquick said:

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YouBet said:

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Yep, not pulling them into the fold was arguably the biggest strategic blunder post USSR there has been. Could have been at least loose allies.

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LOL

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Oh no, a far left winger thinks I'm wrong!

YouBet said:

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Yep, not pulling them into the fold was arguably the biggest strategic blunder post USSR there has been. Could have been at least loose allies.

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The problem with this notion is it assumes that bringing them "in the fold" is old have prevented Putin or similar from coming into power, which is not at all clear.

pagerman @ work said:

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YouBet said:

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Yep, not pulling them into the fold was arguably the biggest strategic blunder post USSR there has been. Could have been at least loose allies.

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The problem with this notion is it assumes that bringing them "in the fold" is old have prevented Putin or similar from coming into power, which is not at all clear.

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It's not but we sure as hell should have tried. We won yet we continued on with NATOs original mission instead of evolving to the times.

sleepybeagle said:

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What worries me about Zelensky is he strikes me as someone who doesn't want the war to end.

Where would he be without this war?
Would we even know his name?

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This opinion always truly strikes me as being 100% propaganda driven. How and why this sentiment came to being is wild to me.

Can you defend this line of thinking further? Not being contentious here. Truly curious.

sleepybeagle said:

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What worries me about Zelensky is he strikes me as someone who doesn't want the war to end.

Where would he be without this war?
Would we even know his name?

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Just like North Korea.

Looks like Trump got played by Putin again.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gjp73gp41o

Got the president to walk back tomahawks with a simple phone call, then had him create unneccessary friction with Zelensky on the false promise of a new deal, and low and behold the Russians walk away when they get what they want.

Zelenskyy wanted back on the Biden error cash payola train. The EU wasn't forking over enough. Trump said to hell with that I'll deal with Putin.

YouBet said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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YouBet said:

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Yep, not pulling them into the fold was arguably the biggest strategic blunder post USSR there has been. Could have been at least loose allies.

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LOL

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Oh no, a far left winger thinks I'm wrong!

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He is still mad that the USSR failed--he thinks we could do communism better because its just never "been done right".

Artimus Gordon said:

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Zelenskyy wanted back on the Biden error cash payola train. The EU wasn't forking over enough. Trump said to hell with that I'll deal with Putin.

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Zelensky didn't ask for cash. He asked for specific weapons and security gaurantees as part of any deal.

Teslag said:

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Looks like Trump got played by Putin again.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gjp73gp41o

Got the president to walk back tomahawks with a simple phone call, then had him create unneccessary friction with Zelensky on the false promise of a new deal, and low and behold the Russians walk away when they get what they want.

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Man, how can this be???!!!???

JWinTX said:

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YouBet said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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YouBet said:

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Yep, not pulling them into the fold was arguably the biggest strategic blunder post USSR there has been. Could have been at least loose allies.

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LOL

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Oh no, a far left winger thinks I'm wrong!

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He is still mad that the USSR failed--he thinks we could do communism better because its just never "been done right".

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Pretty much.

shiftyandquick said:

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YouBet said:

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Yep, not pulling them into the fold was arguably the biggest strategic blunder post USSR there has been. Could have been at least loose allies.

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LOL

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Do tell. You laughed so hard so you must have a lot of facts to back up such a reaction

No tomahawks for Ukraine. Another great foreign policy decision by the Don.

Zelenskyy should be meeting with his neighbors in Europe. Not tripping over here to beg trump to escalate a war that obviously Europe cannot win for him. It's a done deal that he is not and will never get the land back that was lost during the Biden fiasco. And the bottom line is, it's not Americas problem! It's nothing more than a money pit and and an obstacle to handling bigger issues on the world stage namely CHINA. It's Time to draw a line in the sand and settle. If zalensky is all Ukraine's got to save itself from Russia & Putin, it's a lost cause anyway. Quit feeding the little monkey.

pfo said:

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CS78 said:

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It is a little odd trump talks tough on Putin. Putin meets with Trump, tells him how great his hair is. Trump immediately goes limp. Putin continues to show no desire to end the war. Trump talks tough again, the cycle continues. Yet somehow this is all the fault of the people defending their own country?

If anyone is allowing the war to extend, it's Trump by talking tough and then flaking to Putin over and over.

Ukraine has no reason to cave right now because Russia can't do anything more than what they've been doing. And they know if they accept a Putin favored deal it will only result in the loss of the rest of their country with the next invasion.

Russia won't cave because no one is willing to put any real pressure on them.

So everyone is right where they were when Trump took office.

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One thing that's changed since Trump took office is America isn't dumping hundreds of billions of dollars into this debacle. Trump put America first like he said he would.

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Maybe Argentina first and America second.

I would much rather send it to Argentina. Argentina is actually worth saving at this point. Ukraine has been a disaster since the failed Obama/biden administrations.

Artimus Gordon said:

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I would much rather send it to Argentina. Argentina is actually worth saving at this point. Ukraine has been a disaster since the failed Obama/biden administrations.

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Which is purely a personal preference of yours, not a principled "America first" stand.

"America first! Foreign aid is bad!"

Trump sends money to Argentina.

"Foreign aid is good sometimes, mostly when Trump randomly deems it acceptable, for whatever reason!"

Artimus Gordon said:

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Zelenskyy should be meeting with his neighbors in Europe. Not tripping over here to beg trump to escalate a war that obviously Europe cannot win for him. It's a done deal that he is not and will never get the land back that was lost during the Biden fiasco. And the bottom line is, it's not Americas problem! It's nothing more than a money pit and and an obstacle to handling bigger issues on the world stage namely CHINA. It's Time to draw a line in the sand and settle. If zalensky is all Ukraine's got to save itself from Russia & Putin, it's a lost cause anyway. Quit feeding the little monkey.

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He has met with his euro neighbors. They are purchasing weapons on his behalf from us. I'm also wondering how a country being invaded can "escalate" a war foisted upon them.

pagerman @ work said:

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Artimus Gordon said:

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I would much rather send it to Argentina. Argentina is actually worth saving at this point. Ukraine has been a disaster since the failed Obama/biden administrations.

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Which is purely a personal preference of yours, not a principled "America first" stand.

"America first! Foreign aid is bad!"

Trump sends money to Argentina.

"Foreign aid is good sometimes, mostly when Trump randomly deems it acceptable, for whatever reason!"

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Disagree with you. Monroe Doctrine 2.0 is America First:

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"Stabilizing Argentina is 'America First,'" a Treasury Department spokesman said. "A strong, stable Argentina helps anchor a prosperous Western Hemisphere, which is explicitly in the strategic interest of the United States."

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Here is an article with background on this: https://www.wsj.com/world/americas/the-u-s-is-trying-to-drive-a-wedge-between-argentina-and-china-e4551dd7?st=L8Bf52&reflink=article_copyURL_share

China is a huge threat to us there which is why Trump is doing what he's doing. It isn't random "for whatever reason".

Quote:

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China is Argentina's second-largest trading partner after Brazil and the top buyer of its agricultural exports.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent has spoken in recent weeks with Luis Caputo, Argentina's economic minister, about curbing China's ability to access the country's resources, including critical minerals. In addition, they have discussed granting the U.S. expanded access to the country's uranium supply, according to people with knowledge of the conversations.

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Meanwhile:

Quote:

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China is financing the construction of a nuclear power plant that will operate with Chinese technology. China, which has significant investments in mining projects across the South American country, is looking to expand its uranium sources amid growing electricity demand.

The Trump administration has made curbing China's influence in Latin America a national-security priority and pressured other countries across the region to break ties with Beijing. China is "assailing U.S. interests from all directions" in Latin America, U.S. Southern Command head Adm. Alvin Holsey told Congress in February.

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YouBet said:

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pagerman @ work said:

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Artimus Gordon said:

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I would much rather send it to Argentina. Argentina is actually worth saving at this point. Ukraine has been a disaster since the failed Obama/biden administrations.

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Which is purely a personal preference of yours, not a principled "America first" stand.

"America first! Foreign aid is bad!"

Trump sends money to Argentina.

"Foreign aid is good sometimes, mostly when Trump randomly deems it acceptable, for whatever reason!"

---

Disagree with you. Monroe Doctrine 2.0 is America First:

Quote:

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"Stabilizing Argentina is 'America First,'" a Treasury Department spokesman said. "A strong, stable Argentina helps anchor a prosperous Western Hemisphere, which is explicitly in the strategic interest of the United States."

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Here is an article with background on this: https://www.wsj.com/world/americas/the-u-s-is-trying-to-drive-a-wedge-between-argentina-and-china-e4551dd7?st=L8Bf52&reflink=article_copyURL_share

China is a huge threat to us there which is why Trump is doing what he's doing. It isn't random "for whatever reason".

Quote:

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China is Argentina's second-largest trading partner after Brazil and the top buyer of its agricultural exports.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent has spoken in recent weeks with Luis Caputo, Argentina's economic minister, about curbing China's ability to access the country's resources, including critical minerals. In addition, they have discussed granting the U.S. expanded access to the country's uranium supply, according to people with knowledge of the conversations.

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Meanwhile:

Quote:

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China is financing the construction of a nuclear power plant that will operate with Chinese technology. China, which has significant investments in mining projects across the South American country, is looking to expand its uranium sources amid growing electricity demand.

The Trump administration has made curbing China's influence in Latin America a national-security priority and pressured other countries across the region to break ties with Beijing. China is "assailing U.S. interests from all directions" in Latin America, U.S. Southern Command head Adm. Alvin Holsey told Congress in February.

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What this boils down to (all rationalizations aside) is that after months of saying that all foreign aid is bad, and we should "take care of Americans first!", it turns out that all foreign aid isn't bad, as long as it provides value in the eye of the beholder.

You think aid to Ukraine is bad but aid to Argentina is good, which is fine, but it doesn't make one empirically good and the other empirically bad. It's simply a matter of opinion.

And the notion that one kind of foreign aid is actually "America first" and another isn't is farcical on its face. That's just spin and rationalization.

Quote:

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"America first! Foreign aid is bad!"

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False narrative. It was never about giving zero foreign aid. Come on, people.

pagerman @ work said:

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YouBet said:

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pagerman @ work said:

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Artimus Gordon said:

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I would much rather send it to Argentina. Argentina is actually worth saving at this point. Ukraine has been a disaster since the failed Obama/biden administrations.

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Which is purely a personal preference of yours, not a principled "America first" stand.

"America first! Foreign aid is bad!"

Trump sends money to Argentina.

"Foreign aid is good sometimes, mostly when Trump randomly deems it acceptable, for whatever reason!"

---

Disagree with you. Monroe Doctrine 2.0 is America First:

Quote:

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"Stabilizing Argentina is 'America First,'" a Treasury Department spokesman said. "A strong, stable Argentina helps anchor a prosperous Western Hemisphere, which is explicitly in the strategic interest of the United States."

---

Here is an article with background on this: https://www.wsj.com/world/americas/the-u-s-is-trying-to-drive-a-wedge-between-argentina-and-china-e4551dd7?st=L8Bf52&reflink=article_copyURL_share

China is a huge threat to us there which is why Trump is doing what he's doing. It isn't random "for whatever reason".

Quote:

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China is Argentina's second-largest trading partner after Brazil and the top buyer of its agricultural exports.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent has spoken in recent weeks with Luis Caputo, Argentina's economic minister, about curbing China's ability to access the country's resources, including critical minerals. In addition, they have discussed granting the U.S. expanded access to the country's uranium supply, according to people with knowledge of the conversations.

---

Meanwhile:

Quote:

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China is financing the construction of a nuclear power plant that will operate with Chinese technology. China, which has significant investments in mining projects across the South American country, is looking to expand its uranium sources amid growing electricity demand.

The Trump administration has made curbing China's influence in Latin America a national-security priority and pressured other countries across the region to break ties with Beijing. China is "assailing U.S. interests from all directions" in Latin America, U.S. Southern Command head Adm. Alvin Holsey told Congress in February.

---

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What this boils down to (all rationalizations aside) is that after months of saying that all foreign aid is bad, and we should "take care of Americans first!", it turns out that all foreign aid isn't bad, as long as it provides value in the eye of the beholder.

You think aid to Ukraine is bad but aid to Argentina is good, which is fine, but it doesn't make one empirically good and the other empirically bad. It's simply a matter of opinion.

And the notion that one kind of foreign aid is actually "America first" and another isn't is farcical on its face. That's just spin and rationalization.

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One, the funding for Ukraine, will never give a return to the US. Its meant to keep Ukraine independent and cost the Russians money in a quagmire.

The Argentina funding is literally an investment in them and their currency--which keeps China out and gets us in, with the opportunity for an actual return on an investment that COULD help the US taxpayer down the road, assuming the Leftists don't kill Milei...or Trump, actually.

Artimus Gordon said:

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Zelenskyy should be meeting with his neighbors in Europe. Not tripping over here to beg trump to escalate a war that obviously Europe cannot win for him. It's a done deal that he is not and will never get the land back that was lost during the Biden fiasco. And the bottom line is, it's not Americas problem! It's nothing more than a money pit and and an obstacle to handling bigger issues on the world stage namely CHINA. It's Time to draw a line in the sand and settle. If zalensky is all Ukraine's got to save itself from Russia & Putin, it's a lost cause anyway. Quit feeding the little monkey.

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It's ironic that so many leaders over there want to criticize the United States for meddling in foreign conflicts. Yet when a conflict comes to their doorsteps, they look to the U.S. to fix it and want no part of it themselves.

Quote:

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they look to the U.S. to fix it and want no part of it themselves.

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Why do people keep saying this? The EU is heaving funding and providing weapons for Ukraine.

Gigem314 said:

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Quote:

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"America first! Foreign aid is bad!"

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False narrative. It was never about giving zero foreign aid. Come on, people.

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That was all over this site during all the doge fapping.

Teslag said:

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Quote:

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they look to the U.S. to fix it and want no part of it themselves.

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Why do people keep saying this? The EU is heaving funding and providing weapons for Ukraine.

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The U.S. has done the lion's share of the heavy lifting on military aid by far, and the most overall support. And, frankly, is the only country willing to try and help end the war instead of the same cycle we've seen these last few years. Other countries want to give humanitarian aid, but don't really want to do much else about the situation...whether it's a peace deal or further military support.

Whatever makes you feel better about the hyperbole.