flown-the-coop said:

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K2-HMFIC said:

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LMCane said:

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TexasAggie73 said:

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Would the president giving the order to attack another country without congress approval, be a legal order?

---

tell me you don't know about the War Powers Act of 1973

without telling me.

---

He can authorize strikes for up to set amount of days and then beyond that has to seek congressional approval.

---

WPA of 1973 is very probably unconstitutional.

---

The War Powers Resolution isn't unconstitutional. Congress has the explicit Article I authority to declare war, raise and support armies, regulate the military, and control funding. The Resolution is Congress exercising those powers by setting the conditions under which the President can deploy forces without prior authorization.

The Supreme Court has never struck it down, and every administration while grumbling about it has operated within its framework for over 50 years. Presidents can object on policy or separation-of-powers grounds, but the constitutional structure is clear: Congress gets to decide when the nation goes to war, and the War Powers Resolution is a legitimate way of enforcing that.

K2-HMFIC said:

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flown-the-coop said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

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LMCane said:

---

TexasAggie73 said:

---

Would the president giving the order to attack another country without congress approval, be a legal order?

---

tell me you don't know about the War Powers Act of 1973

without telling me.

---

He can authorize strikes for up to set amount of days and then beyond that has to seek congressional approval.

---

WPA of 1973 is very probably unconstitutional.

---

The War Powers Resolution isn't unconstitutional. Congress has the explicit Article I authority to declare war, raise and support armies, regulate the military, and control funding. The Resolution is Congress exercising those powers by setting the conditions under which the President can deploy forces without prior authorization.

The Supreme Court has never struck it down, and every administration while grumbling about it has operated within its framework for over 50 years. Presidents can object on policy or separation-of-powers grounds, but the constitutional structure is clear: Congress gets to decide when the nation goes to war, and the War Powers Resolution is a legitimate way of enforcing that.

---

Define "war".

This is another area where SCOTUS, rightly or wrongly, has stayed out of the argument.

Question… if Trump continues to attack Venezuela and orders troops on the ground, how are you going to stop him?

Military mutiny / coup? If POTUS gives an order, and the order is "overruled" by the judiciary or congress, then is POTUS really the commander in chief?

The practicality of implementing the WPA is problematic which is why it's been grumbled about.

So no, it's really really NOT clear.

flown-the-coop said:

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K2-HMFIC said:

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flown-the-coop said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

LMCane said:

---

TexasAggie73 said:

---

Would the president giving the order to attack another country without congress approval, be a legal order?

---

tell me you don't know about the War Powers Act of 1973

without telling me.

---

He can authorize strikes for up to set amount of days and then beyond that has to seek congressional approval.

---

WPA of 1973 is very probably unconstitutional.

---

The War Powers Resolution isn't unconstitutional. Congress has the explicit Article I authority to declare war, raise and support armies, regulate the military, and control funding. The Resolution is Congress exercising those powers by setting the conditions under which the President can deploy forces without prior authorization.

The Supreme Court has never struck it down, and every administration while grumbling about it has operated within its framework for over 50 years. Presidents can object on policy or separation-of-powers grounds, but the constitutional structure is clear: Congress gets to decide when the nation goes to war, and the War Powers Resolution is a legitimate way of enforcing that.

---

Define "war".

This is another area where SCOTUS, rightly or wrongly, has stayed out of the argument.

Question… if Trump continues to attack Venezuela and orders troops on the ground, how are you going to stop him?

Military mutiny / coup? If POTUS gives an order, and the order is "overruled" by the judiciary or congress, then is POTUS really the commander in chief?

The practicality of implementing the WPA is problematic which is why it's been grumbled about.

So no, it's really really NOT clear.

---

"War" is whatever Congress says triggers its Article I powersthat's the whole point.

Congress doesn't need the Supreme Court to define it because Congress controls authorization and appropriations. The fact that SCOTUS has stayed out doesn't make the War Powers Resolution unconstitutional; it just means the political branches are expected to manage it.

If a president keeps attacking Venezuela without authorization, Congress has real tools: cut off funding, block appropriations, restrict deployments, mandate withdrawal timelines, or impose statutory limits.

Those aren't "coups," they're literally the mechanisms the Constitution gives Congress. The President is Commander in Chief of the forces Congress raises and funds not a free-floating monarch with a military attached.

Every president has complained about the WPA, but they've all complied with it in practice because they know Congress ultimately controls the legal and resource framework for any sustained military action. The ambiguity isn't a bug it's the constitutional design of shared war powers.

Yeah, that's not my read on it. Good luck with yours though, as Congress thinking it is THE governing body of the United States will not lead to great outcomes for the nation.

And if Congress is so great at controlling the purse, they could start with passing a budget. Instead, they abdicate that responsibility.

People think separation of powers is about limiting the POTUS. Separate but equal.

POTUS is command-in-chief of the armed forces. If congress wants to yank the purse strings because Trump is preventing dangerous drugs from killing Americans, as China continues to setup puppet states on our southern border, then I guess they can. I mean, they enjoyed not paying service members during their government shutdown.

flown-the-coop said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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TAMUallen said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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What invasion/attaxks?

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MS13 is active and actively supplying narcotics throughout the country using Biden era illegals.

But you knew that

---

Most of the cocaine coming from Colombia goes through the Pacific Ocean and Central America. The stuff going through the Caribbean is headed for Africa and Europe.

---

Via fishing boats with outboard motors and fuel cans. Makes sense.

---

Who said they're going all the way to Europe? If you've looked at a globe recently, you'd know there are lots of islands in the Caribbean that serve as waypoints between Venezuela and Europe to offload onto larger ships and/or aircraft.

---

So the end shipping address for 100% of the drugs sunk in the Caribbean are destined for Europe. As another poster suggested, do you have a link or evidence that the drugs sunk by Trump were Euro destined... assuming to you that makes Trump's actions unwarranted, unlawful?

Having trouble understanding this talking point. Thanks.

---

No, not all of it, but a lot of it. https://features.csis.org/tracking-transatlantic-drug-flows-cocaines-path-from-south-america-across-the-caribbean-to-europe/
How do you know it was headed to the US? Maybe instead of sinking the boat, it would be worthwhile to capture it to find out where it's actually headed. If it's going to Europe, that's not our problem. Now that doesn't mean we should just let them go on their merry way, but instead get Europe involved in their burgeoning coke problem.

Hegseth has responded to the kill orders. This was the first or one of the first strikes and they were concerned that any "survivors" would communicate the news of the attack.

Seems pretty clear to me it was justified. Cannot remember the timing, but this the General for that area resign about when this started or was announced? I could see him disagreeing with Hegseth on this approach to the point of resigning, which is what one should do, rather than refuse an order. (Just speculation, but others have suggested the connection).

HTownAg98 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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HTownAg98 said:

---

flown-the-coop said:

---

HTownAg98 said:

---

TAMUallen said:

---

Yukon Cornelius said:

---

What invasion/attaxks?

---

MS13 is active and actively supplying narcotics throughout the country using Biden era illegals.

But you knew that

---

Most of the cocaine coming from Colombia goes through the Pacific Ocean and Central America. The stuff going through the Caribbean is headed for Africa and Europe.

---

Via fishing boats with outboard motors and fuel cans. Makes sense.

---

Who said they're going all the way to Europe? If you've looked at a globe recently, you'd know there are lots of islands in the Caribbean that serve as waypoints between Venezuela and Europe to offload onto larger ships and/or aircraft.

---

So the end shipping address for 100% of the drugs sunk in the Caribbean are destined for Europe. As another poster suggested, do you have a link or evidence that the drugs sunk by Trump were Euro destined... assuming to you that makes Trump's actions unwarranted, unlawful?

Having trouble understanding this talking point. Thanks.

---

No, not all of it, but a lot of it. https://features.csis.org/tracking-transatlantic-drug-flows-cocaines-path-from-south-america-across-the-caribbean-to-europe/
How do you know it was headed to the US? Maybe instead of sinking the boat, it would be worthwhile to capture it to find out where it's actually headed. If it's going to Europe, that's not our problem. Now that doesn't mean we should just let them go on their merry way, but instead get Europe involved in their burgeoning coke problem.

---

Or destroy them. Like we did.

FAFO

Nm

Ilegales and gang members are the son of Joseph and Mary obviously.

Didn't you learn anything from the 4 years of the oops I **** my pants andriod?

RDV-1992 said:

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I don't like this. Another war that we aren't required to fight. More treasure and blood for what?

IMO we should diplomatically wall them off and forget about them until the inevitable revolution, then back the best replacement candidate.

---

More beta bull****

America FIRST

Whelp looks like Congress does not like it when you may violate the law of armed conflict. I think this also has influences of the basic competencies that Hegseth does not have as a Secretary.

"Republican-led committees in the Senate and the House say they will amplify their scrutiny of the Pentagon after a Washington Post report revealing that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth gave a spoken order to kill all crew members aboard a vessel suspected of smuggling drugs in the Caribbean Sea several weeks ago.

A live drone feed showed two survivors from the original crew of 11 clinging to the wreckage of their boat after the initial missile attack Sept. 2, The Post reported Friday afternoon. The Special Operations commander overseeing the operation then ordered a second strike to comply with Hegseth's directive, according to two people with direct knowledge of the operation, killing both survivors. Those people, along with five others in the original report, spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the matter's sensitivity.

Late Friday, Sen. Roger Wicker (R-Mississippi), the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, and Sen. Jack Reed (Rhode Island), the committee's top Democrat, issued a statement saying that the committee "is aware of recent news reports and the Department of Defense's initial response regarding alleged follow-on strikes on suspected narcotics vessels." The committee, they said, "has directed inquiries to the Department, and we will be conducting vigorous oversight to determine the facts related to these circumstances."The leaders of the House Armed Services Committee, Rep. Mike D. Rogers (R-Alabama) and Rep. Adam Smith (D-Washington), followed suit late Saturday. In a brief joint statement, the pair said they are "taking bipartisan action to gather a full accounting of the operation in question." The committee, they noted, is "committed to providing rigorous oversight of the Department of Defense's military operations in the Caribbean."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/11/29/hegseth-caribbean-strikes-kill-order-reaction/

flown-the-coop said:

---

Hegseth has responded to the kill orders. This was the first or one of the first strikes and they were concerned that any "survivors" would communicate the news of the attack.

Seems pretty clear to me it was justified. Cannot remember the timing, but this the General for that area resign about when this started or was announced? I could see him disagreeing with Hegseth on this approach to the point of resigning, which is what one should do, rather than refuse an order. (Just speculation, but others have suggested the connection).

---

Biden wouldve given them political asylum, fast track to citizenship, and benefits. Better off dead IMO. There's a New Sheriff in town ass holes.

HTownAg98 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

---

HTownAg98 said:

---

flown-the-coop said:

---

HTownAg98 said:

---

TAMUallen said:

---

Yukon Cornelius said:

---

What invasion/attaxks?

---

MS13 is active and actively supplying narcotics throughout the country using Biden era illegals.

But you knew that

---

Most of the cocaine coming from Colombia goes through the Pacific Ocean and Central America. The stuff going through the Caribbean is headed for Africa and Europe.

---

Via fishing boats with outboard motors and fuel cans. Makes sense.

---

Who said they're going all the way to Europe? If you've looked at a globe recently, you'd know there are lots of islands in the Caribbean that serve as waypoints between Venezuela and Europe to offload onto larger ships and/or aircraft.

---

So the end shipping address for 100% of the drugs sunk in the Caribbean are destined for Europe. As another poster suggested, do you have a link or evidence that the drugs sunk by Trump were Euro destined... assuming to you that makes Trump's actions unwarranted, unlawful?

Having trouble understanding this talking point. Thanks.

---

No, not all of it, but a lot of it. https://features.csis.org/tracking-transatlantic-drug-flows-cocaines-path-from-south-america-across-the-caribbean-to-europe/
How do you know it was headed to the US? Maybe instead of sinking the boat, it would be worthwhile to capture it to find out where it's actually headed. If it's going to Europe, that's not our problem. Now that doesn't mean we should just let them go on their merry way, but instead get Europe involved in their burgeoning coke problem.

---

So we just pull up beside them with sirens blaring, demand they stop and ask them if they are taking their fentanyl to Europe or N. America?

I hope we kill many, many more. Roger Wicker is a liberal POS. Another the GOP needs to purge from its ranks.

Maybe Trump endorsed him because he's also a liberal at heart. Or maybe Wicker just disagrees with Trump on this particular issue.

swampstander said:

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HTownAg98 said:

---

flown-the-coop said:

---

HTownAg98 said:

---

flown-the-coop said:

---

HTownAg98 said:

---

TAMUallen said:

---

Yukon Cornelius said:

---

What invasion/attaxks?

---

MS13 is active and actively supplying narcotics throughout the country using Biden era illegals.

But you knew that

---

Most of the cocaine coming from Colombia goes through the Pacific Ocean and Central America. The stuff going through the Caribbean is headed for Africa and Europe.

---

Via fishing boats with outboard motors and fuel cans. Makes sense.

---

Who said they're going all the way to Europe? If you've looked at a globe recently, you'd know there are lots of islands in the Caribbean that serve as waypoints between Venezuela and Europe to offload onto larger ships and/or aircraft.

---

So the end shipping address for 100% of the drugs sunk in the Caribbean are destined for Europe. As another poster suggested, do you have a link or evidence that the drugs sunk by Trump were Euro destined... assuming to you that makes Trump's actions unwarranted, unlawful?

Having trouble understanding this talking point. Thanks.

---

No, not all of it, but a lot of it. https://features.csis.org/tracking-transatlantic-drug-flows-cocaines-path-from-south-america-across-the-caribbean-to-europe/
How do you know it was headed to the US? Maybe instead of sinking the boat, it would be worthwhile to capture it to find out where it's actually headed. If it's going to Europe, that's not our problem. Now that doesn't mean we should just let them go on their merry way, but instead get Europe involved in their burgeoning coke problem.

---

So we just pull up beside them with sirens blaring, demand they stop and ask them if they are taking their fentanyl to Europe or N. America?

---

That's usually what we do, along with interrogation, to gather information and go after the bigger fish, no pun intended.

swampstander said:

---

HTownAg98 said:

---

flown-the-coop said:

---

HTownAg98 said:

---

flown-the-coop said:

---

HTownAg98 said:

---

TAMUallen said:

---

Yukon Cornelius said:

---

What invasion/attaxks?

---

MS13 is active and actively supplying narcotics throughout the country using Biden era illegals.

But you knew that

---

Most of the cocaine coming from Colombia goes through the Pacific Ocean and Central America. The stuff going through the Caribbean is headed for Africa and Europe.

---

Via fishing boats with outboard motors and fuel cans. Makes sense.

---

Who said they're going all the way to Europe? If you've looked at a globe recently, you'd know there are lots of islands in the Caribbean that serve as waypoints between Venezuela and Europe to offload onto larger ships and/or aircraft.

---

So the end shipping address for 100% of the drugs sunk in the Caribbean are destined for Europe. As another poster suggested, do you have a link or evidence that the drugs sunk by Trump were Euro destined... assuming to you that makes Trump's actions unwarranted, unlawful?

Having trouble understanding this talking point. Thanks.

---

No, not all of it, but a lot of it. https://features.csis.org/tracking-transatlantic-drug-flows-cocaines-path-from-south-america-across-the-caribbean-to-europe/
How do you know it was headed to the US? Maybe instead of sinking the boat, it would be worthwhile to capture it to find out where it's actually headed. If it's going to Europe, that's not our problem. Now that doesn't mean we should just let them go on their merry way, but instead get Europe involved in their burgeoning coke problem.

---

So we just pull up beside them with sirens blaring, demand they stop and ask them if they are taking their fentanyl to Europe or N. America?

---

I mean…the Coast Guard regularly does that.,,

People wanting to needlessly endanger the lives of our service members so we can do narco-terror drug trafficking stops off the coast of Venezuela.

So we can "flip them" and go after the higher ups like this was 21 Jump Street: Caribbean Edition. That is so sad it's funny.

No, leaders can see the bigger picture and the objective that this needs to end now.

These attacks are supported by intel. Do people think the grainy images we are shown are what the military and leadership are seeing?

No. They have high quality video and audio of exactly what is on those boats and who the runners are.

And we do not need to arrest, interview and flip. Trump has already announced the expanded operations to go after the supply chain all the way back to source chemicals, precursors and crops.

Next people will be wanting to champion a fundraiser for the poor peasant coca farmers just trying to live their best agrarian life.

Man people need to wake up and learn due process does not matter when it comes to protecting our border and our citizens. Foreign terrorists actively engaged in hostile activities will be eliminated.

The question remaining is what kind of American, what kind of person, cares more about a narco-trafficker than a dead American teen from an accidental fentanyl overdose.

HTownAg98 said:

---

flown-the-coop said:

---

HTownAg98 said:

---

flown-the-coop said:

---

HTownAg98 said:

---

TAMUallen said:

---

Yukon Cornelius said:

---

What invasion/attaxks?

---

MS13 is active and actively supplying narcotics throughout the country using Biden era illegals.

But you knew that

---

Most of the cocaine coming from Colombia goes through the Pacific Ocean and Central America. The stuff going through the Caribbean is headed for Africa and Europe.

---

Via fishing boats with outboard motors and fuel cans. Makes sense.

---

Who said they're going all the way to Europe? If you've looked at a globe recently, you'd know there are lots of islands in the Caribbean that serve as waypoints between Venezuela and Europe to offload onto larger ships and/or aircraft.

---

So the end shipping address for 100% of the drugs sunk in the Caribbean are destined for Europe. As another poster suggested, do you have a link or evidence that the drugs sunk by Trump were Euro destined... assuming to you that makes Trump's actions unwarranted, unlawful?

Having trouble understanding this talking point. Thanks.

---

No, not all of it, but a lot of it. https://features.csis.org/tracking-transatlantic-drug-flows-cocaines-path-from-south-america-across-the-caribbean-to-europe/
How do you know it was headed to the US? Maybe instead of sinking the boat, it would be worthwhile to capture it to find out where it's actually headed. If it's going to Europe, that's not our problem. Now that doesn't mean we should just let them go on their merry way, but instead get Europe involved in their burgeoning coke problem.

---

This is the same type of thinking that led to us getting smoked on 9/11. We infiltrated the al-hada switch board years before and then let numerous terrorist attacks happen, after we had gotten inside and having foreknowledge of the attacks, claiming we didn't want to intervene so we could "find the bigger fish". Then we had two planes fly into the Twin Towers and lost 3000 American lives. All known to the CIA and some of its cut-outs. It's a losing strategy.

Here is an article with the drug runners themselves that do this just so Democrats don't think this is some kind of myth like antifa. These drug boats are a highly coordinated and expansive effort.

https://www.wsj.com/world/americas/deliver-or-die-inside-the-drug-boat-crews-ferrying-cocaine-to-the-u-s-590657eb?st=bvey58&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

On point. You can literally feel the bureaucratic thinking in some of the takes on. The action against Venezuelan narco-terrorist.

They do NOT start with America first. They put the rights of the perps above the rights of the victims every single time.

It's representative of an entire culture that permeated the fed gov, the alphabets, and the military.

The concept that instead of stopping drug runners, we should ask them to pull over to the nearest sandbar, show us their nets and fishing licenses, then ask them about the societal pressures that caused them to give up on catching minnows and start running drugs for the cartels… thinking that is how you protect the USA.

Under Trump and Hegseth, our military is finally on testosterone replacement therapy and regrowing our balls.

Dems and TDSers don't bother with facts from the WSJ. They like vague innuendo and anonymous sourced articles of WaPo.

The article and stories similar all have the narco-terrorist sailors rethinking their career paths. Cartels are resorting to forcing the "fishermen" at gun point and threatening families.

Dems will tell you that we should quit these strikes because of that. Let's pause and think about that. Dems would rather capitulate to the thugs at the cost of the lives of America's youth.

They are consistent in the hatred of America.

Why do people keep talking about fentanyl on here? That comes primarily from China and to a lesser extent India not from Venezuela.

lexofer said:

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Why do people keep talking about fentanyl on here? That comes primarily from China and to a lesser extent India not from Venezuela.

---

Who cares. Venezuelan drug cartels are bad. Is there some thought that as long as it's not fentanyl then we can pretend it could be humanitarian aid or bananas and not narcotics.

And to add: Primarily China and India does not mean only China and India and only pacific coast. But twisting in pretzels to act like Trump is not justified in his actions is amusing. All speed boat operations should be considered innocent fishermen until Coast Guard can pull them over, check their IDs and cargo, bring them into the US for potential prosecution, provide them shelter, food and legal services at our expense to have some liberal judge give them a pass because the mean cartel made them do it and that they deserve asylum and $50k a year from the DEA as a "human source".

Nope, just blow their boats up and ensure they have sufficient holes to sink with the boat.

People keep acting like Venezuelan narco-terrorists deserve due process and congressional subcommittee hearings before we drop a missile on their coke-runner speedboats. Give me a break. Congress hasn't declared a real war in half a century, can't pass a budget on time, and suddenly they think they're the adults in the room when a President actually defends the country? The War Powers Resolution is a D.C. fantasy for bureaucrats who think national defense should run on Robert's Rules of Order. Meanwhile cartels are running a floating poisoning operation aimed straight at our kids.

If Trump wants to light up a drug boat, that's not "constitutional ambiguity," that's called protecting America. You don't "flip" cartel runners, you sink them and send Maduro a reminder that America doesn't ask narco-terrorists for permission slips. Anyone more worried about the "rights" of coke smugglers than the lives of American teens dying from cartel poison should take a long look in the mirror. This isn't complicated: America First means enemies of America get dealt with, immediately and decisively.

No, we have to capture the "mechanic" whose job it is to keep the fuel tanks full and the engines turning, for surely he carries within his head all the intel and inner workings of Venezuelans narco empire.

Keep in mind that we would have to provide them with a lawyer who would correctly advise them not to say anything.

We cannot rendition them because that would be horrible. And by interrogation they just mean to ask their lawyer if they would pretty please help the investigation. We know asking them questions repeatedly or with a stern voice would most certainly violate their rights.

Libs are showing today they care more about the rights of traffickers than the lives of America's youth. Pretty clear with every statement some may make.

I do wonder what the end game here is

we are already sending B-52 Buff H with F-18 Super Hornets to fly off the coast of Venezuela

there is an airbase in Puerto Rico which looks like DFW airport right now with so many USAF and US Navy aircraft.

what's the end game.

LMCane said:

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I do wonder what the end game here is

we are already sending B-52 Buff H with F-18 Super Hornets to fly off the coast of Venezuela

there is an airbase in Puerto Rico which looks like DFW airport right now with so many USAF and US Navy aircraft.

what's the end game.

---

That sir…is an outstanding question.

there is a well known dirt runway used by the narco cartels in Venezuela

why haven't we taken it out with TLAMS by now?

my guess is it will be too easy to just repair it.

Distraction

LMCane said:

---

I do wonder what the end game here is

we are already sending B-52 Buff H with F-18 Super Hornets to fly off the coast of Venezuela

there is an airbase in Puerto Rico which looks like DFW airport right now with so many USAF and US Navy aircraft.

what's the end game.

---

To get Maduro out of office. It's already been shared that's the goal.

I assumed that was obvious to everyone?

YouBet said:

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LMCane said:

---

I do wonder what the end game here is

we are already sending B-52 Buff H with F-18 Super Hornets to fly off the coast of Venezuela

there is an airbase in Puerto Rico which looks like DFW airport right now with so many USAF and US Navy aircraft.

what's the end game.

---

To get Maduro out of office. It's already been shared that's the goal.

I assumed that was obvious to everyone?

---

Ok…so how do we get Maduro out of office?

Last time I checked, doing a bunch of bombings against an unpopular regime did not result in the regime's overthrow.