flown-the-coop said:

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There is a fraud aspect of this that most walz right on by. Unauthorized use of the autopen would most certainly result in those documents being... forgeries and thus are not effective.

Biden will at the very least have to offer something to prove up or at least suggest each use was duly authorized.

A real judge is not going to dismiss without at least getting to that point.

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Yes they will.

This entire thing is laughable.

Its interesting to ponder how this plays out and agree with the overall sentiment that this is not going to result in invalidated pardons and the like.

Even if there was a defined procedure, autopen use log, etc... the Executive is not bound by such policy akin to the "declassification by thought".

So absent the smoking gun, or pen in this matter, then its theater to keep beating the dead dog face pony soldier... at this point with diminishing returns and relevance.

Trump and friends need to sharpen their message in January for the run to the midterms. This should not be part of that message.

ETFan said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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There is a fraud aspect of this that most walz right on by. Unauthorized use of the autopen would most certainly result in those documents being... forgeries and thus are not effective.

Biden will at the very least have to offer something to prove up or at least suggest each use was duly authorized.

A real judge is not going to dismiss without at least getting to that point.

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Yes they will.

This entire thing is disgusting laughable.

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To laugh at the fact your side supported a zombie POTUS and his crooked ways because Orange Man hurt your feelz is truly sad. Like really, really sad.

flown-the-coop said:

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ETFan said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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There is a fraud aspect of this that most walz right on by. Unauthorized use of the autopen would most certainly result in those documents being... forgeries and thus are not effective.

Biden will at the very least have to offer something to prove up or at least suggest each use was duly authorized.

A real judge is not going to dismiss without at least getting to that point.

---

Yes they will.

This entire thing is disgusting laughable.

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To laugh at the fact your side supported a zombie POTUS and his crooked ways because Orange Man hurt your feelz is truly sad. Like really, really sad.

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Trump looks to be unconscious as Linda McMahon winds down her remarks pic.twitter.com/FiTM7qPdm8

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) December 2, 2025

So he closed his eyes for a moment in a 2-hour cabinet meeting? His ninth of the year? Equaling the number Biden had in 4 years?

Then had a press conference?

I see you are resulting to just trolling and no longer engaging in discussion on the topic.

flown-the-coop said:

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So he closed his eyes for a moment in a 2-hour cabinet meeting? His ninth of the year? Equaling the number Biden had in 4 years?

Then had a press conference?

I see you are resulting to just trolling and no longer engaging in discussion on the topic.

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Cool, I'm not allowed to respond with pictures/memes like the conservatives on this forum.

You're trolling me with constant strawman's of how I choose to post. It's a direct response to your (off-topic? trolling?) comment about biden.

It's irrelevant, they're both sleepy old men. That's the point of my post, it's as on-topic as yours.

The thread is about Biden and his cognitive decline in relation to the autopen.

It is not about 12-hour a day Trump, his lengthy cabinet meetings, nonstop schedule, and full on dedication to making America great again.

Trump is such a sleepy old man that the guy in the picture to his right TOOK A SEPARATE PLANE HOME from recent overseas trip with Trump just so RUBIO could get some rest.

But yea, he and Biden are comparable.

Sorry, you own a vegetable pinto. We own a vintage corvette still kicking strong on all cylinders.

Im Gipper said:

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If there is some evidence that the DoJ has that the autopen was used fraudulently for that particular pardonee, then I agree with that assessment of how it should play out.

But without that evidence, the autopenned pardon likely stands as prima facie evidence.

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Therein lies the problem. Our Constitution was created for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for that of any other. Or something like that.

There was not a single moral or religious person involved in the Executive Branch from 2021-2024. There are very few now.

ETFan said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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There is a fraud aspect of this that most walz right on by. Unauthorized use of the autopen would most certainly result in those documents being... forgeries and thus are not effective.

Biden will at the very least have to offer something to prove up or at least suggest each use was duly authorized.

A real judge is not going to dismiss without at least getting to that point.

---

Yes they will.

This entire thing is laughable.

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I am glad you find perpetrating fraud on the American people funny. I am glad you think unelected bureaucrats usurping the power of the President, thus the power of the American people, funny. I do not.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Im Gipper said:

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If there is some evidence that the DoJ has that the autopen was used fraudulently for that particular pardonee, then I agree with that assessment of how it should play out.

But without that evidence, the autopenned pardon likely stands as prima facie evidence.

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Therein lies the problem. Our Constitution was created for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for that of any other. Or something like that.

There was not a single moral or religious person involved in the Executive Branch from 2021-2024. There are very few now.

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THIS. Probably same held true from 2009-2016 and maybe not as many 2000-2008 as people might assume. Let's just say the whole century, with 2009-2016 and 2021-2024 special levels of godless.

Quote:

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There are very few now

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That seem like a high estimate.

flown-the-coop said:

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There is a fraud aspect of this that most walz right on by. Unauthorized use of the autopen would most certainly result in those documents being... forgeries and thus are not effective.

Biden will at the very least have to offer something to prove up or at least suggest each use was duly authorized.

A real judge is not going to dismiss without at least getting to that point.

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Let's be real here - Biden will not put anyone from his admin at risk. When asked, he'll simply respond "Yes, I approved that".

This whole thing is just as bad as the leftists whining over some cartel guys getting blown up in the ocean.

NOTHING will happen. Yes, of course the auto-pen was abused. But its not provable - just like we couldn't get Biden declared incompetent even though everyone knew he was.

Don't like it? Then make use of the autopen illegal for everything except non-legally binding proclamations.

javajaws said:

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Don't like it? Then make use of the autopen illegal for everything except non-legally binding proclamations.

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Your terms are acceptable. In fact, I think Trump is following this. But as POTUS regarding a purely Executive function, there is not much that can be done. Even if you passed a law, it may be deemed unconstitutional on a separation of powers basis.

But you could setup a "best practice" then call out previous and future admins for not following.

NEW: The Trump administration has denied former President Joe Biden’s request for executive privilege as Congress investigates his use of the autopen, according to Fox News Digital.

“I am concerned that disclosure of these materials would damage important institutional… pic.twitter.com/XWkSB5n3Ui

— RedWave Press (@RedWave_Press) December 17, 2025