Ag4Life nails it! I completely agree that that should be the bargaining tactic to end the shut down.

The GOP controls the Executive and the Legislative branch.

Ag4life80 said:

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The do nothing Republican Congress is missing a golden opportunity here. What they need to be saying is that ' fine, we'll negotiate on a benefits extension, but each and every claimant must provide proof of citizenship to be eligible '. That will be non negotiable. That sheds a light and exposes all the deceit and corruption.

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FlyRod said:

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The GOP controls the Executive and the Legislative branch.

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They need seven non-r tards of the 48 Democrat senators to vote with them to re-open the government. Just need 14% of them to not be ******ed.

So far, they have one. Fetterman...the one that supposedly had a stroke. He's the least ******ed Democrat senator at this time.

Imagine if this was 1820 and this was the hill dems were trying to die on.

Martels Hammer said:

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You can also turn it around on them. Ask what exactly are the Republicans demanding?

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Easy, the Republicans are demanding that:

- Human beings are illegal
- This country hates immigrants
- People don't deserve any food
- Only billionaires matter
- Some people should stay poor
- Elderly aren't important
- People shouldn't have jobs

That cover it?

GeorgiAg said:

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I already know F16 will attack the messenger, but the "Dems want to give illegals free healthcare" is a republican talking point and isn't really true. Medicaid, ACA, CHIP and the Personal Responsibility and Work Reconciliation Act all require that you have to be a "qualified alien" to get benefits. That is green card, legit refugees who came through proper legal channels, etc... Illegals are barred by law.

They cannot change any of these laws while Republicans control the House, Senate and Prez. So they may "want" to but it's not going to happen.

The only benefit they can get is "emergency Medicaid." We aren't going to let them die in a life threatening emergency.

The Dems want to reverse the cuts to Medicaid and ACA subsidies which is bad enough and costs us too much money.

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The average poster here isn't aware or doesn't care. Like you can literally do your own independent research and understand what's actually factual. But they keeping typing the same talking point repeatedly without actually understanding on any level. Mindlessly repeating back what they're told.

GeorgiAg said:

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I already know F16 will attack the messenger, but the "Dems want to give illegals free healthcare" is a republican talking point and isn't really true. Medicaid, ACA, CHIP and the Personal Responsibility and Work Reconciliation Act all require that you have to be a "qualified alien" to get benefits. That is green card, legit refugees who came through proper legal channels, etc... Illegals are barred by law.

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I would normally say that you're smart enough to know…

Money is fungible. Our money replaces the money states like California give to illegals by the billions.

Not no, but hell **** no!

The average poster here understands the lie Dems tell. Stop it.

Chips2003 said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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Hmmmm...smells like a potential liberal rat. Not sure ze/zir is being sincere with this request.

What does ze want anyways? A CNN article that says verbatim "Liberals want free healthcare for illegals/non-citizens and this is why they won't play ball"?

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Not even close to liberal, arguing with my liberal FIL, trying to prove him wrong with concrete evidence, something he can't easily dismiss.

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Your FIL is a lib? You should just smack the shat out of him.

Quote:

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I need proof

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I can't believe no one has suggested this yet.

Have you looked in the pudding?

samurai_science said:

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Chips2003 said:

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samurai_science said:

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Chips2003 said:

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That the Dems are shutting down the government to give illegals free health care.

TIA

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I guess their own words are not good enough?

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Ok, but give me some links so I can provide them to others, I need ammo.

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I am busy

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or entitled.
we're all busy, sir

Something my father taught me 55 years ago when I was in high school, some people choose to ignore facts that don't fit their beliefs. Only thing to do is write them off.

Seems like the democrats would publish their bill, to prove that it doesn't have any of this. Has that been done?

Geminiv said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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I already know F16 will attack the messenger, but the "Dems want to give illegals free healthcare" is a republican talking point and isn't really true. Medicaid, ACA, CHIP and the Personal Responsibility and Work Reconciliation Act all require that you have to be a "qualified alien" to get benefits. That is green card, legit refugees who came through proper legal channels, etc... Illegals are barred by law.

They cannot change any of these laws while Republicans control the House, Senate and Prez. So they may "want" to but it's not going to happen.

The only benefit they can get is "emergency Medicaid." We aren't going to let them die in a life threatening emergency.

The Dems want to reverse the cuts to Medicaid and ACA subsidies which is bad enough and costs us too much money.

---

The average poster here isn't aware or doesn't care. Like you can literally do your own independent research and understand what's actually factual. But they keeping typing the same talking point repeatedly without actually understanding on any level. Mindlessly repeating back what they're told.

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Interesting you provided no facts.

Tell your father in law to quit exploiting the poor illegals and hire legal americans to clean his house and do his landscaping.

In most instances, technically it is not going directly to illegals, but practically, it is.

It's like food stamps don't technically pay for drugs and alcohol, but in practice, it frees up money at the individual level that would have gone to food to be spent on drugs and alcohol.

It frees up states to pay for illegals that would have been payed to citizens had that money not been allocated.

Geminiv said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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I already know F16 will attack the messenger, but the "Dems want to give illegals free healthcare" is a republican talking point and isn't really true. Medicaid, ACA, CHIP and the Personal Responsibility and Work Reconciliation Act all require that you have to be a "qualified alien" to get benefits. That is green card, legit refugees who came through proper legal channels, etc... Illegals are barred by law.

They cannot change any of these laws while Republicans control the House, Senate and Prez. So they may "want" to but it's not going to happen.

The only benefit they can get is "emergency Medicaid." We aren't going to let them die in a life threatening emergency.

The Dems want to reverse the cuts to Medicaid and ACA subsidies which is bad enough and costs us too much money.

---

The average poster here isn't aware or doesn't care. Like you can literally do your own independent research and understand what's actually factual. But they keeping typing the same talking point repeatedly without actually understanding on any level. Mindlessly repeating back what they're told.

---

I know, I try, but this is a pretty partisan crowd here. it is only going to get worse with A.I. and active bad actors spreading disinformation that fit a narrative they all want to hear.

You can simply drop that "end of thread" photo they source as "facts" into A.I. and get an answer within seconds. Of course, the "facts" in the photo are misleading. Another red flag is the weird phrase "for most non-citizens." Well, that includes people here legally, e.g., green card holders and legal refugees.

I don't know why we have to lie about it - the money we pay for Medicaid, etc.. is too much. Healthcare is a mess, and I haven't really heard any solution other than full socialized medicine for all or "let the poors die."

But to say it's paying for "free healthcare for illegal immigrants" is inaccurate unless it is true emergency care, i.e., a heart attack or serious motor vehicle accident. And it is only one line item on that chart in the photo. I have no problem saving someone's life. I know the poor (citizens, legals, and illegals) just show up to hospital ERs when sick for whatever, and hospitals probably provide care sometimes to illegals for non-life-threatening issues. But they aren't getting paid for it.

GeorgiAg said:

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Geminiv said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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I already know F16 will attack the messenger, but the "Dems want to give illegals free healthcare" is a republican talking point and isn't really true. Medicaid, ACA, CHIP and the Personal Responsibility and Work Reconciliation Act all require that you have to be a "qualified alien" to get benefits. That is green card, legit refugees who came through proper legal channels, etc... Illegals are barred by law.

They cannot change any of these laws while Republicans control the House, Senate and Prez. So they may "want" to but it's not going to happen.

The only benefit they can get is "emergency Medicaid." We aren't going to let them die in a life threatening emergency.

The Dems want to reverse the cuts to Medicaid and ACA subsidies which is bad enough and costs us too much money.

---

The average poster here isn't aware or doesn't care. Like you can literally do your own independent research and understand what's actually factual. But they keeping typing the same talking point repeatedly without actually understanding on any level. Mindlessly repeating back what they're told.

---

I know, I try, but this is a pretty partisan crowd here. it is only going to get worse with A.I. and active bad actors spreading disinformation that fit a narrative they all want to hear.

You can simply drop that "end of thread" photo they source as "facts" into A.I. and get an answer within seconds. Of course, the "facts" in the photo are misleading. Another red flag is the weird phrase "for most non-citizens." Well, that includes people here legally, e.g., green card holders and legal refugees.

I don't know why we have to lie about it - the money we pay for Medicaid, etc.. is too much. Healthcare is a mess, and I haven't really heard any solution other than full socialized medicine for all or "let the poors die."

But to say it's paying for "free healthcare for illegal immigrants" is inaccurate unless it is true emergency care, i.e., a heart attack or serious motor vehicle accident. And it is only one line item on that chart in the photo. I have no problem saving someone's life. I know the poor (citizens, legals, and illegals) just show up to hospital ERs when sick for whatever, and hospitals probably provide care sometimes to illegals for non-life-threatening issues. But they aren't getting paid for it.

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Bull****

That's why an aspirin is $80 for you and I, etc.

Is Paco McWet paying for it? No. But the hospital is making it back.

So, are they lying…. Because they have said that very thing many times.

And the demands do include that very thing.

Those demands also include all kinds of ridiculous woke agenda programs around the world to be funded. Billions of dollars….

So…..

The reality is, this is all a political stunt by the dems. They are playing chicken, but not with the Republicans; with the voters.

samurai_science said:

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Chips2003 said:

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That the Dems are shutting down the government to give illegals free health care.

TIA

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I guess their own words are not good enough?

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He knows they lie!

mslags97 said:

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So, are they lying…. Because they have said that very thing many times.

And the demands do include that very thing.

Those demands also include all kinds of ridiculous woke agenda programs around the world to be funded. Billions of dollars….

So…..

The reality is, this is all a political stunt by the dems. They are playing chicken, but not with the Republicans; with the voters.

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If what the poster from Georgia put forth was even remotely true, then Dems have nothing to be worried about and should vote for the CR.

Ask the Dems why they are holding out. They claim millions will be uninsured if they passed a clean CR that does not renew certain subsidies and programs that the Dems theyselves passed with sunset provisions.

It's rich they want to point at Rs "mischaracterizing" when they are lying so bad they cannot even rationalize the Ds position no matter how many talking points Act Blue and Reddit try to slang their way.

Chips2003 said:

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stallion6 said:

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Chips2003 said:

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samurai_science said:

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Chips2003 said:

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That the Dems are shutting down the government to give illegals free health care.

TIA

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I guess their own words are not good enough?

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Ok, but give me some links so I can provide them to others, I need ammo.

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Try google, try Youtube, watch fake news, or try common sense.

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I'm arguing with a liberal, common sense doesn't apply.

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Why are you continuing to troll on this thread?

Flagged

Here are some things to tell your FIL:

• Elections have consequences. People voted in Trump and Republicans to Congress to put a stop to the illegal alien gravy train at taxpayer expense. For historical reference, Republicans had to sit by and take it while Obama told them this very thing and they ramrodded through the ACA with a bunch of lies, that not only made healthcare more expensive, it created an entitlement program that needs constant subsidies to "work". Win elections, then Dems can assert policies they want. Holding the gov't hostage is the act of political terrorists and Republicans are under no obligation to bargain under such conditions.
• On a broader healthcare note, if 5 Democrats have the power to shut down the government, why in hell would you ever want the gov't in charge of healthcare for anyone?

Viper16 said:

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Chips2003 said:

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stallion6 said:

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Chips2003 said:

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samurai_science said:

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Chips2003 said:

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That the Dems are shutting down the government to give illegals free health care.

TIA

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I guess their own words are not good enough?

---

Ok, but give me some links so I can provide them to others, I need ammo.

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Try google, try Youtube, watch fake news, or try common sense.

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I'm arguing with a liberal, common sense doesn't apply.

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Why are you continuing to troll on this thread?

Flagged

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How the hell am I trolling my own thread?

Geminiv said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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I already know F16 will attack the messenger, but the "Dems want to give illegals free healthcare" is a republican talking point and isn't really true. Medicaid, ACA, CHIP and the Personal Responsibility and Work Reconciliation Act all require that you have to be a "qualified alien" to get benefits. That is green card, legit refugees who came through proper legal channels, etc... Illegals are barred by law.

They cannot change any of these laws while Republicans control the House, Senate and Prez. So they may "want" to but it's not going to happen.

The only benefit they can get is "emergency Medicaid." We aren't going to let them die in a life threatening emergency.

The Dems want to reverse the cuts to Medicaid and ACA subsidies which is bad enough and costs us too much money.

---

The average poster here isn't aware or doesn't care. Like you can literally do your own independent research and understand what's actually factual. But they keeping typing the same talking point repeatedly without actually understanding on any level. Mindlessly repeating back what they're told.

---

Dude, the proof is right up there on the thread. Which part of this truth do you dispute?

1) Dems are trying to repeal WFTCA sections 71109, 71110, 71117, 71201, 71301, and section 71302 in exchange for a continuing resolution.

2) Each of these sections of the WFTCA specifically relates to safe guards against illegal aliens getting healthcare.

If both of these are true, then all you are doing is typing the same talking point repeatedly without actually understanding on any level. Mindlessly repeating back what you're told.

What specifically do you dispute?

1) Dems are trying to repeal WFTCA sections 71109, 71110, 71117, 71201, 71301, and section 71302 in exchange for a continuing resolution.

2) Each of these sections of the WFTCA specifically relates to safe guards against illegal aliens getting healthcare.

Which of these is untrue. If either is untrue, what is the truth?

FlyRod said:

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The GOP controls the Executive and the Legislative branch.

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The GOP wants to pass a clean resolution and the Dems are filibustering it.

Correct?

FlyRod said:

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The GOP controls the Executive and the Legislative branch.

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There's always that pesky filibuster thing that allows the minority party to push back against majority policies.

The one thing I dislike about online forums is that people just don't know how to argue or counter argue.

When someone make a vague, swathing counter-point, you have to ask specific questions about the assumptions in their point.

Most of the time they will simply run from trying to clarify, because then they would be exposing themselves to the opposing point and they really don't know what they are talking about anyways.

I think it is a trained art over Reddit. Like, they teach you how to do it so that you can disseminate the Act Blue talking points without having to actually explain yourself.