Zobel said:

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Entitlement gets confused with the adjective being entitled.

It's a technical term about federal spending - mandatory federal outlays for programs where eligibility set by law automatically entitle people to benefits, and spending is driven by the number of eligible people and benefit formulas, instead of and without congressional appropriations. This means to change it, Congress has to pass a law. Not capped by the budget process.

As a result almost 90 percent of this increase in projected spending over the next decade comes from SS, Medicare, and interest.

---

"It's a technical term about tax funded governmental spending - mandatory tax fund outlays for programs where eligibility set by law automatically entitle certain people to benefits, and spending is driven by the number of eligible people and benefit formulas, ........."

Dadgum change a couple of your words and you just described our public school system........lets change that to a pay as you go system by the parents based on their number of children attending.......... instead of penalizing those folks with no children or grown children.

Rattler12 said:

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Zobel said:

---

Entitlement gets confused with the adjective being entitled.

It's a technical term about federal spending - mandatory federal outlays for programs where eligibility set by law automatically entitle people to benefits, and spending is driven by the number of eligible people and benefit formulas, instead of and without congressional appropriations. This means to change it, Congress has to pass a law. Not capped by the budget process.

As a result almost 90 percent of this increase in projected spending over the next decade comes from SS, Medicare, and interest.

---

"It's a technical term about tax funded governmental spending - mandatory tax fund outlays for programs where eligibility set by law automatically entitle certain people to benefits, and spending is driven by the number of eligible people and benefit formulas, ........."

Dadgum change a couple of your words and you just described our public school system........lets change that to a pay as you go system by the parents based on their number of children attending.......... instead of penalizing those folks with no children or grown children.

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End that too.

Phatbob said:

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slaughtr said:

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BusterAg said:

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slaughtr said:

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Tom Fox said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

slaughtr said:

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For 32 years I've paid the maximum you can pay into SS. Every. Single. Year.
On top of that, I've paid roughly $7,000,000 in Federal taxes during that time. But sure, I'm the selfish one because I want my SS check when I retire. As promised.

I've heard how entitled youngsters are but this takes the cake.

---

Dude. You paid in yearly on average slightly less than me currently. You made that much for over 3 decades. That means you are an ultra high net worth individual if you even just saved on average about 20% of that annually.

You are going to cry over your entitlement of social security? If this is true, the only way to combat this is to disenfranchise those taking a government check from SS/Medicare or any of the other needs based entitlements. Take them out of the voting pool.

Apparently not even a multi millionaire can be convinced to give up $3.5k monthly check.

At this point it is laughable.

---

Whatever, dude. I paid in. Give it back to me. Until our government stops giving tax money to every single country on earth, I want my money back. When they do that, come talk to me.
But tell you what, you don't have to cash your SS check. Feel free to put your money where your mouth is.

---

And that will do **** all. It needs to end for everyone. Hopefully, they just means test you out and make it a straight up entitlement.

---

Got it. So you won't. You must hate America. Not only did I pay the max every year, but for 20 of those years I was self employed, so I had to pay both the employee and the employer portion. I'm taking every penny of my $5,000/month check when I start taking in a couple of years.

---

Same here buddy. I own my own business and make what you made. I don't give a rip about getting my govt check.

All entitlement spending must end, the budget balanced, and taxes cut.

---

I do give a rip. Pay me what I'm owed. Luckily, after selling my interest in my business, I decided to do charity work and took a job with the Federal Government. Now I get SS and a big fat Federal Pension and federally funded 401K as well. Winning.

---

The argument against this mentality is not individual, but collective.

Collectively, the people in power put in a system that is bound to fail. It's impossible to extract taxes from 45 year old slaughtr to pay for 75 year old slaughtr's retirement.

I think that an estate tax where every dime of SS and federal pension you collected should be paid back into SS in the form of an estate tax that has zero deductions. That way your wealth can pay for the SS checks of all of the other people of your (and my, honestly, generation). Let our generation pay for the mess that we made.

---

I didn't make any mess. I started out living in a flea infested 700 square foot shack and worked my ass off for close to 40 years now. Even with SS and pension, if I lived to be 100 years old I'd never get back a quarter of the taxes I paid. all the whiner's can pound sand.

---

It's not about being responsible for the problem, it is the unwillingness to change anything when it is obvious the system is unsustainable. If you know you were lied to about SS, but demand to "get yours" when you know it has been a lie this whole time, that assigns culpability.

---

How about raising taxes 10 percentage points on everyone? The bottom 40% who pay nothing will pay 10% and everyone else adds 10 points to their current effective rate. That would more than offset SS spend!

Are you good with that change?

Logos Stick said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

For 32 years I've paid the maximum you can pay into SS. Every. Single. Year.
On top of that, I've paid roughly $7,000,000 in Federal taxes during that time. But sure, I'm the selfish one because I want my SS check when I retire. As promised.

I've heard how entitled youngsters are but this takes the cake.

---

Dude. You paid in yearly on average slightly less than me currently. You made that much for over 3 decades. That means you are an ultra high net worth individual if you even just saved on average about 20% of that annually.

You are going to cry over your entitlement of social security? If this is true, the only way to combat this is to disenfranchise those taking a government check from SS/Medicare or any of the other needs based entitlements. Take them out of the voting pool.

Apparently not even a multi millionaire can be convinced to give up $3.5k monthly check.

At this point it is laughable.

---

Whatever, dude. I paid in. Give it back to me. Until our government stops giving tax money to every single country on earth, I want my money back. When they do that, come talk to me.
But tell you what, you don't have to cash your SS check. Feel free to put your money where your mouth is.

---

And that will do **** all. It needs to end for everyone. Hopefully, they just means test you out and make it a straight up entitlement.

---

Got it. So you won't. You must hate America. Not only did I pay the max every year, but for 20 of those years I was self employed, so I had to pay both the employee and the employer portion. I'm taking every penny of my $5,000/month check when I start taking in a couple of years.

---

Same here buddy. I own my own business and make what you made. I don't give a rip about getting my govt check.

All entitlement spending must end, the budget balanced, and taxes cut.

---

I do give a rip. Pay me what I'm owed. Luckily, after selling my interest in my business, I decided to do charity work and took a job with the Federal Government. Now I get SS and a big fat Federal Pension and federally funded 401K as well. Winning.

---

The argument against this mentality is not individual, but collective.

Collectively, the people in power put in a system that is bound to fail. It's impossible to extract taxes from 45 year old slaughtr to pay for 75 year old slaughtr's retirement.

I think that an estate tax where every dime of SS and federal pension you collected should be paid back into SS in the form of an estate tax that has zero deductions. That way your wealth can pay for the SS checks of all of the other people of your (and my, honestly, generation). Let our generation pay for the mess that we made.

---

I didn't make any mess. I started out living in a flea infested 700 square foot shack and worked my ass off for close to 40 years now. Even with SS and pension, if I lived to be 100 years old I'd never get back a quarter of the taxes I paid. all the whiner's can pound sand.

---

It's not about being responsible for the problem, it is the unwillingness to change anything when it is obvious the system is unsustainable. If you know you were lied to about SS, but demand to "get yours" when you know it has been a lie this whole time, that assigns culpability.

---

How about raising taxes 10 percentage points on everyone? The bottom 40% who pay nothing will pay 10% and everyone else adds 10 points to their current effective rate. That would more than offset SS spend!

Are you good with that change?

---

I am fine with raising taxes as long as everyone pays the exact same net rate. Raise away!

Tom Fox said:

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Logos Stick said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

For 32 years I've paid the maximum you can pay into SS. Every. Single. Year.
On top of that, I've paid roughly $7,000,000 in Federal taxes during that time. But sure, I'm the selfish one because I want my SS check when I retire. As promised.

I've heard how entitled youngsters are but this takes the cake.

---

Dude. You paid in yearly on average slightly less than me currently. You made that much for over 3 decades. That means you are an ultra high net worth individual if you even just saved on average about 20% of that annually.

You are going to cry over your entitlement of social security? If this is true, the only way to combat this is to disenfranchise those taking a government check from SS/Medicare or any of the other needs based entitlements. Take them out of the voting pool.

Apparently not even a multi millionaire can be convinced to give up $3.5k monthly check.

At this point it is laughable.

---

Whatever, dude. I paid in. Give it back to me. Until our government stops giving tax money to every single country on earth, I want my money back. When they do that, come talk to me.
But tell you what, you don't have to cash your SS check. Feel free to put your money where your mouth is.

---

And that will do **** all. It needs to end for everyone. Hopefully, they just means test you out and make it a straight up entitlement.

---

Got it. So you won't. You must hate America. Not only did I pay the max every year, but for 20 of those years I was self employed, so I had to pay both the employee and the employer portion. I'm taking every penny of my $5,000/month check when I start taking in a couple of years.

---

Same here buddy. I own my own business and make what you made. I don't give a rip about getting my govt check.

All entitlement spending must end, the budget balanced, and taxes cut.

---

I do give a rip. Pay me what I'm owed. Luckily, after selling my interest in my business, I decided to do charity work and took a job with the Federal Government. Now I get SS and a big fat Federal Pension and federally funded 401K as well. Winning.

---

The argument against this mentality is not individual, but collective.

Collectively, the people in power put in a system that is bound to fail. It's impossible to extract taxes from 45 year old slaughtr to pay for 75 year old slaughtr's retirement.

I think that an estate tax where every dime of SS and federal pension you collected should be paid back into SS in the form of an estate tax that has zero deductions. That way your wealth can pay for the SS checks of all of the other people of your (and my, honestly, generation). Let our generation pay for the mess that we made.

---

I didn't make any mess. I started out living in a flea infested 700 square foot shack and worked my ass off for close to 40 years now. Even with SS and pension, if I lived to be 100 years old I'd never get back a quarter of the taxes I paid. all the whiner's can pound sand.

---

It's not about being responsible for the problem, it is the unwillingness to change anything when it is obvious the system is unsustainable. If you know you were lied to about SS, but demand to "get yours" when you know it has been a lie this whole time, that assigns culpability.

---

How about raising taxes 10 percentage points on everyone? The bottom 40% who pay nothing will pay 10% and everyone else adds 10 points to their current effective rate. That would more than offset SS spend!

Are you good with that change?

---

I am fine with raising taxes as long as everyone pays the exact same net rate. Raise away!

---

That's my point. Lots of folks are good with change as long as it's the change they want. I proposed cutting 30% of the budget by nuking Medicaid, SNAP, shaving defense, etc.. and was told "no, SS has to be cut".

The poster I responded to said "unwilling to change anything", which is a strawman.

Why make a bad situation worse? Time to cut bait. Funny thing is the younger generation will do at the worst time for boomers and gen Xers. Should have done it themselves and kept the money.

I'm willing to make a change, but we can't crash the plane, we must land it.

Cut the 30% I proposed first. Then allow everyone within 10 years of full retirement age (57 and above) to get the 100% of what they were promised. Next decade (age 47-56) gets 75%, next gets 50%, etc... The very young get nothing which gives them time to save and prepare.

Cold turkey is never happening.

Logos Stick said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Logos Stick said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

For 32 years I've paid the maximum you can pay into SS. Every. Single. Year.
On top of that, I've paid roughly $7,000,000 in Federal taxes during that time. But sure, I'm the selfish one because I want my SS check when I retire. As promised.

I've heard how entitled youngsters are but this takes the cake.

---

Dude. You paid in yearly on average slightly less than me currently. You made that much for over 3 decades. That means you are an ultra high net worth individual if you even just saved on average about 20% of that annually.

You are going to cry over your entitlement of social security? If this is true, the only way to combat this is to disenfranchise those taking a government check from SS/Medicare or any of the other needs based entitlements. Take them out of the voting pool.

Apparently not even a multi millionaire can be convinced to give up $3.5k monthly check.

At this point it is laughable.

---

Whatever, dude. I paid in. Give it back to me. Until our government stops giving tax money to every single country on earth, I want my money back. When they do that, come talk to me.
But tell you what, you don't have to cash your SS check. Feel free to put your money where your mouth is.

---

And that will do **** all. It needs to end for everyone. Hopefully, they just means test you out and make it a straight up entitlement.

---

Got it. So you won't. You must hate America. Not only did I pay the max every year, but for 20 of those years I was self employed, so I had to pay both the employee and the employer portion. I'm taking every penny of my $5,000/month check when I start taking in a couple of years.

---

Same here buddy. I own my own business and make what you made. I don't give a rip about getting my govt check.

All entitlement spending must end, the budget balanced, and taxes cut.

---

I do give a rip. Pay me what I'm owed. Luckily, after selling my interest in my business, I decided to do charity work and took a job with the Federal Government. Now I get SS and a big fat Federal Pension and federally funded 401K as well. Winning.

---

The argument against this mentality is not individual, but collective.

Collectively, the people in power put in a system that is bound to fail. It's impossible to extract taxes from 45 year old slaughtr to pay for 75 year old slaughtr's retirement.

I think that an estate tax where every dime of SS and federal pension you collected should be paid back into SS in the form of an estate tax that has zero deductions. That way your wealth can pay for the SS checks of all of the other people of your (and my, honestly, generation). Let our generation pay for the mess that we made.

---

I didn't make any mess. I started out living in a flea infested 700 square foot shack and worked my ass off for close to 40 years now. Even with SS and pension, if I lived to be 100 years old I'd never get back a quarter of the taxes I paid. all the whiner's can pound sand.

---

It's not about being responsible for the problem, it is the unwillingness to change anything when it is obvious the system is unsustainable. If you know you were lied to about SS, but demand to "get yours" when you know it has been a lie this whole time, that assigns culpability.

---

How about raising taxes 10 percentage points on everyone? The bottom 40% who pay nothing will pay 10% and everyone else adds 10 points to their current effective rate. That would more than offset SS spend!

Are you good with that change?

---

I am fine with raising taxes as long as everyone pays the exact same net rate. Raise away!

---

That's my point. Lots of folks are good with change as long as it's the change they want. I proposed cutting 30% of the budget by nuking Medicaid, SNAP, shaving defense, etc.. and was told "no, SS has to be cut".

The poster I responded to said "unwilling to change anything", which is a strawman.

---

I'm cool with cutting that too, but SS is the biggest expense and is insolvent and has to be cut too.

Logos Stick said:

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I'm still waiting on the other evidence that nothing I post can be trusted.

Here is one of numerous posts to support my assertion (that you claim is a strawman).

Quote:

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I'm saying you should forgo the benefit you're entitled to by law for a moral reason, not for a personal pragmatic one.

We can't afford it. The country is broke. It is having a meaningful negative impact on our economy and society. It's burdening our children.

---

---

You're inferring the poster means ALL; he even stated he would likely retain his SS benefits when that time comes. Your first post in this thread was TLDR, so you probably didn't have time to consider the linked article that also includes the luxury of the current SS program alongside the benefits of a metastasized Medicare system.

Quad Dog said:

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No such thing as paying into SS for future use. Every dollar that goes in is immediately spent. Any money you pay in SS tax is going directly to the elderly. If it still exists, then your kids and grandkids will pay for you.

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The point was that my generation viewed my father's generation as SS free loaders, because they had no skin in the game. My personal views have changed dramatically. My father's generation paid in blood and tears.

What we need is a "human virtue" tax of say 50 % on anyone making more than $100K per year. Anyone fortunate enough to be make beaux coup bucks needs to pay a tax to help those less fortunate ........and if they wanted to be top dog "human virtuist" they could voluntarily pay more. I'd gladly pay it.......if I was making $100K per year or more.....

One more thing... I've noticed is that more than a few of the younger folk today aren't old enough yet to know what they don't know yet........

Logos Stick said:

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I'm willing to make a change, but we can't crash the plane, we must land it.

Cut the 30% I proposed first. Then allow everyone within 10 years of full retirement age (57 and above) to get the 100% of what they were promised. Next decade (age 47-56) gets 75%, next gets 50%, etc... The very young get nothing which gives them time to save and prepare.

Cold turkey is never happening.

---

That is not accelerated enough. If we are going to do the phased approach it has to be more drastic. Above 57 you get what the fund can pay out when you reach retirement age. 50-57 you get 50%. 45-50 you get 25%. Everyone else gets nothing.

tysker said:

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Logos Stick said:

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I'm still waiting on the other evidence that nothing I post can be trusted.

Here is one of numerous posts to support my assertion (that you claim is a strawman).

Quote:

---

I'm saying you should forgo the benefit you're entitled to by law for a moral reason, not for a personal pragmatic one.

We can't afford it. The country is broke. It is having a meaningful negative impact on our economy and society. It's burdening our children.

---

---

You're inferring the poster means ALL; he even stated he would likely retain his SS benefits when that time comes. Your first post in this thread was TLDR, so you probably didn't have time to consider the linked article that also includes the luxury of the current SS program alongside the benefits of a metastasized Medicare system.

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So you wont admit that the poster literally said what I asserted. OK then. It is YOU who are inferring he did not mean all. Retaining his benefits is irrelevant to what he stated. He also told me he would gladly give all of it up when the time came!

Where is the other evidence that what I post can't be trusted?

Logos Stick said:

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Bird Poo said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Threads like this strengthen my resolve to take every penny out of the system I can. The OP and others perched atop their moral high horse hypocritically passing judgment on everyone else.

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How am I a hypocrite when I haven't taken a penny while contributing for 30 years? That's asinine.

You were going to get yours anyway based off this response. Just looking for an excuse.

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If you're not voluntarily sending more of your discretionary income to the government each month to 'save' Social Security, then spare me the moralizing. You could help mitigate the problem, but you've chosen not to - so don't lecture the rest of us. Do you REALLY care about the kids or not?! And don't give me the tired line that "it won't make a difference." That's the same excuse used by climate hucksters like Gore who live in mansions and fly private jets while telling everyone else to sacrifice.

We're being told that unless we agree to give up all our current and future Social Security benefits right this second, we're heartless monsters who don't care about our kids. It's absurd.

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I never said give it up. I think there have been reasonable ideas on reform. The OP, to his credit, brought up a very real problem that needs to be confronted or this country is done. Quit being dramatic.

Cold turkey will happen. Youth will only vote for pols who abolish the SS.

Surprised SS is the focus here when Medicare is the issue, as illustrated on the graph.

I would like to see some kind of phased out approach - with a corresponding phased in program of some kind of Trump Account savings vehicle for those who will not get SS.

"thinking about future generations"

How noble-- a bit like "doing it for the children." I'm 85 and most--if not all-my contemporaries (give or take 10 years or so) either see SS as a welcome supplement to private retirement resources or as absolutely necessary to their financial and physical survival (Medicare parts A and B, the latter of which is not free and hardly welfare}.

Point is that SS, Medicare are programs designed for the collective with dramatic and different impacts on the individual. If you can take fact into account when you reform or abolish SS, go for it.

I'd suggest your concerns about the welfare of future generations and the alleged excesses of Boomers might involve some serious thinking about your own.

fc2112 said:

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I would like to see some kind of phased out approach - with a corresponding phased in program of some kind of Trump Account savings vehicle for those who will not get SS.

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We already have plenty of ways to save money. No need to introduce another govt program.

Not within the government's purview to manage retirement accounts without opt outs.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Cold turkey will happen. Youth will only vote for pols who abolish the SS.

---

If so, it seems the problem will be solved then.

Also, GenZ and young voters overall favored Kamala Harris over Donald Trump. You think Dems are getting rid of SS?!

https://www.hks.harvard.edu/faculty-research/policy-topics/politics/young-voters-shifted-right-2024-election-ash-center

That's a snapshot in time. Voters change their patterns as they get older. But I suspect we will see both political parties rejected in favor of something radical.

It's also important to note that 28% of Gen Z was aborted, murdered. The wrath from that generation is coming.

matureag said:

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"thinking about future generations"

How noble-- a bit like "doing it for the children." I'm 85 and most--if not all-my contemporaries (give or take 10 years or so) either see SS as a welcome supplement to private retirement resources or as absolutely necessary to their financial and physical survival (Medicare parts A and B, the latter of which is not free and hardly welfare}.

Point is that SS, Medicare are programs designed for the collective with dramatic and different impacts on the individual. If you can take fact into account when you reform or abolish SS, go for it.

Thinking about the welfare future generations and the alleged excesses of the past involves some serious thinking about your own.

---

Try to get a policy on the private market and tell me that it is not welfare. And even worse it has skewed the cost for those on the private market.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Cold turkey will happen. Youth will only vote for pols who abolish the SS.

---

We'll see a cold day in hell before we see a cold turkey cutoff of SS.

Reduced benefits? Likely.

Higher taxes? Likely.

Cold turkey -- not happening.

Go ahead and bookmark this post.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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That's a snapshot in time. Voters change their patterns as they get older. But I suspect we will see both political parties rejected in favor of something radical.

It's also important to note that 28% of Gen Z was aborted, murdered. The wrath from that generation is coming.

---

So young voters who supported the Marxists and get older will vote to abolish SS that they have paid into. LOL, no.

LMCane said:

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Well said brother!

It's amazing that insane leftists love to argue in favor of further stealing from old middle class people who HAD THEIR OWN MONEY CONFISCATED FROM THEM FOR THIRTY YEARS.

but these same idiots are completely silent about having to spend a trillion dollars on obese welfare queens, illegal immigrants, fraud, abuse of welfare systems, trans reading hours, paying for single females to continue to have more children, etc etc etc.

---

Single females having kids are the life blood of America.

Put a baby in few, for god and country

Zobel said:

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This is such a neutral, unbiased framing of the issue.

---

But it's not wrong.

Everyone on here agrees that there is an issue. The problem is that SS is a leviathan that has proven to be untouchable throughout its lifetime.

So I can post on here that I'm willing to give up my check. Or, like some, throw around the boomer blame and threaten to take their checks.

But that does absolutely nothing.

It's all virtue signaling.

When Bush wanted to privatize a portion of SS, Democrats screamed bloody murder. They were unanimously against it, and they brought out all the sob stories about grandma eating cat food.

That was 20 years in a pre-AI, pre-Twitter world. Can you imagine the furor today?

How do you propose we get around that mindset?

Zobel said:

---

I've already said I'm game. Let's do it. The only problem is, it very well may be too little too late - and it won't be very long until I'm eligible.

---

you forgot to add that you and all of your generation will continue to pay your SS taxes for your entire working career while forgoing any payout - you know for the future of your kids.

EclipseAg said:

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Zobel said:

---

This is such a neutral, unbiased framing of the issue.

---

But it's not wrong.

Everyone on here agrees that there is an issue. The problem is that SS is a leviathan that has proven to be untouchable throughout its lifetime.

So I can post on here that I'm willing to give up my check. Or, like some, throw around the boomer blame and threaten to take their checks.

But that does absolutely nothing.

It's all virtue signaling.

When Bush wanted to privatize a portion of SS, Democrats screamed bloody murder. They were unanimously against it, and they brought out all the sob stories about grandma eating cat food.

That was 20 years in a pre-AI, pre-Twitter world. Can you imagine the furor today?

How do you propose we get around that mindset?

---

The only real way anything gets fixed is ending universal suffrage.

MaxPower said:

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I guess there's a generational difference. I'm in my mid 40's and look at my social security taxes as the equivalent to setting money on fire. Don't expect to get any of it back and I'm planning accordingly.

---

A big problem is that you aren't alone ... when I was in my 40s, I felt the same way, because the same dire predictions were being made way back then.

That's why a lot of this falls on deaf ears. It's not like people in the '80s and '90s believed SS was a completely solvent, well-managed program. We knew back then it was failing, and yet were required to continue paying in.

Logos Stick said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

For 32 years I've paid the maximum you can pay into SS. Every. Single. Year.
On top of that, I've paid roughly $7,000,000 in Federal taxes during that time. But sure, I'm the selfish one because I want my SS check when I retire. As promised.

I've heard how entitled youngsters are but this takes the cake.

---

Dude. You paid in yearly on average slightly less than me currently. You made that much for over 3 decades. That means you are an ultra high net worth individual if you even just saved on average about 20% of that annually.

You are going to cry over your entitlement of social security? If this is true, the only way to combat this is to disenfranchise those taking a government check from SS/Medicare or any of the other needs based entitlements. Take them out of the voting pool.

Apparently not even a multi millionaire can be convinced to give up $3.5k monthly check.

At this point it is laughable.

---

Whatever, dude. I paid in. Give it back to me. Until our government stops giving tax money to every single country on earth, I want my money back. When they do that, come talk to me.
But tell you what, you don't have to cash your SS check. Feel free to put your money where your mouth is.

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And that will do **** all. It needs to end for everyone. Hopefully, they just means test you out and make it a straight up entitlement.

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Got it. So you won't. You must hate America. Not only did I pay the max every year, but for 20 of those years I was self employed, so I had to pay both the employee and the employer portion. I'm taking every penny of my $5,000/month check when I start taking in a couple of years.

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Same here buddy. I own my own business and make what you made. I don't give a rip about getting my govt check.

All entitlement spending must end, the budget balanced, and taxes cut.

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I do give a rip. Pay me what I'm owed. Luckily, after selling my interest in my business, I decided to do charity work and took a job with the Federal Government. Now I get SS and a big fat Federal Pension and federally funded 401K as well. Winning.

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The argument against this mentality is not individual, but collective.

Collectively, the people in power put in a system that is bound to fail. It's impossible to extract taxes from 45 year old slaughtr to pay for 75 year old slaughtr's retirement.

I think that an estate tax where every dime of SS and federal pension you collected should be paid back into SS in the form of an estate tax that has zero deductions. That way your wealth can pay for the SS checks of all of the other people of your (and my, honestly, generation). Let our generation pay for the mess that we made.

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I didn't make any mess. I started out living in a flea infested 700 square foot shack and worked my ass off for close to 40 years now. Even with SS and pension, if I lived to be 100 years old I'd never get back a quarter of the taxes I paid. all the whiner's can pound sand.

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It's not about being responsible for the problem, it is the unwillingness to change anything when it is obvious the system is unsustainable. If you know you were lied to about SS, but demand to "get yours" when you know it has been a lie this whole time, that assigns culpability.

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How about raising taxes 10 percentage points on everyone? The bottom 40% who pay nothing will pay 10% and everyone else adds 10 points to their current effective rate. That would more than offset SS spend!

Are you good with that change?

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Does it change the trajectory or just delay the inevitable? I would be against it because it just delays the inevitable and continues bad ideas, but makes it even more difficult to fix in the future. SS is, in its very design, a bad idea. It is unsustainable no matter what the tax rate is by its nature. The tax rate only defers the day of reckoning as to when it collapses. It is the same culpability, it just harms people later down the road than if the taxes were smaller. In other words, we are willing to be the *******, just to younger people.

EclipseAg said:

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Zobel said:

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This is such a neutral, unbiased framing of the issue.

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But it's not wrong.

Everyone on here agrees that there is an issue. The problem is that SS is a leviathan that has proven to be untouchable throughout its lifetime.

So I can post on here that I'm willing to give up my check. Or, like some, throw around the boomer blame and threaten to take their checks.

But that does absolutely nothing.

It's all virtue signaling.

When Bush wanted to privatize a portion of SS, Democrats screamed bloody murder. They were unanimously against it, and they brought out all the sob stories about grandma eating cat food.

That was 20 years in a pre-AI, pre-Twitter world. Can you imagine the furor today?

How do you propose we get around that mindset?

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Take away SS from Democrats?

Politicians will campaign on ending SS. Boomers won't have the votes.

Young people aren't really paying into it to the degree the older generations have. And yes. Why pay into something going to older generations who have bankrupt this country? Hard pass.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Politicians will campaign on ending SS. Boomers won't have the votes.

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Lol, show me a Democrat who will campaign on ending SS.

Boomers don't need the votes. They'll be gone. The next generation on the cusp of receiving SS will magically shift from "I never planned on it" to "I want what's mine and what I've paid into"... it happens with every generation.

The sun will stop shining before SS ends.