MemphisAg1 said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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Politicians will campaign on ending SS. Boomers won't have the votes.

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Lol, show me a Democrat who will campaign on ending SS.

Boomers don't need the votes. They'll be gone. The next generation on the cusp of receiving SS will magically shift from "I never planned on it" to "I want what's mine and what I've paid into"... it happens with every generation.

The sun will stop shining before SS ends.

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I don't understand why the bold is so hard to comprehend. The SS train can't be stopped.

Logos Stick said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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That's a snapshot in time. Voters change their patterns as they get older. But I suspect we will see both political parties rejected in favor of something radical.

It's also important to note that 28% of Gen Z was aborted, murdered. The wrath from that generation is coming.

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So young voters who supported the Marxists and get older will vote to abolish SS that they have paid into. LOL, no.

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People without hope vote for revolutionaries. I don't know why this is so lost on boomers. They want the system to fail because they have no hope of getting anything. There won't be an 'I'm going to get mine!' for millennials or zoomers because it will be bankrupt before then. You guys are really out of touch if you think anyone in their 40s or younger expects to have what you have.

Democrat policy is just whatever garners most votes. If ending SS garners young votes that's what they will campaign on.

But politics aside. SS needs to end. It's a Ponzi scheme the government mandates participation in. It's a gross over reach.

Well said.

Logos Stick said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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Politicians will campaign on ending SS. Boomers won't have the votes.

---

Lol, show me a Democrat who will campaign on ending SS.

Boomers don't need the votes. They'll be gone. The next generation on the cusp of receiving SS will magically shift from "I never planned on it" to "I want what's mine and what I've paid into"... it happens with every generation.

The sun will stop shining before SS ends.

---

I don't understand why the bold is so hard to comprehend. The SS train can't be stopped.

---

Oh it will be stopped. I don't know how high the debt must climb to collapse the system, but it will eventually happen. It is just math at this point. And the math doesn't math.

AGC said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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That's a snapshot in time. Voters change their patterns as they get older. But I suspect we will see both political parties rejected in favor of something radical.

It's also important to note that 28% of Gen Z was aborted, murdered. The wrath from that generation is coming.

---

So young voters who supported the Marxists and get older will vote to abolish SS that they have paid into. LOL, no.

---

People without hope vote for revolutionaries. I don't know why this is so lost on boomers. They want the system to fail because they have no hope of getting anything. There won't be an 'I'm going to get mine!' for millennials or zoomers because it will be bankrupt before then. You guys are really out of touch if you think anyone in their 40s or younger expects to have what you have.

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So we've gone from "voters change the voting patterns as they get older and will thus vote to give up SS bennies" to "there will be a revolution because nothing will be there". They are Marxists. Marxists don't vote to reduce government entitlements. They will vote to tax the middle class out of existence to pay for those entitlements!

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Democrat policy is just whatever garners most votes. If ending SS garners young votes that's what they will campaign on.

But politics aside. SS needs to end. It's a Ponzi scheme the government mandates participation in. It's a gross over reach.

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I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for it.

Young people also don't want to take care of elderly parents and grandparents. They would rather pay their 6.2% of wages than have old people move in with them. And females make up >50% of the voting population. As a group they will vote to take care of old people even if the math doesn't work. You know, emotions and all.

There is no serious proposal to end SS by any political party.

You guys can cling to the belief it's going away if you want, but it's a pipe dream.

You're having trouble understanding things because you've fallen into identify politics. The young generation aren't "Marxist". Like the other poster said they are revolutionaries. Or will become so. Marxism is a very specific type of revolutionary. They may or may not fall into the bucket. Or it may be on a scale. Ultimately they will be opposed to the status quo. So whatever that is, including paying into boomer retirement accounts. Aka SS.

Yup.
We borrow money from China to give money to Ukraine and these guys think politicians are going to end SS because there's no money, lol.

Logos Stick said:

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tysker said:

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Logos Stick said:

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I'm still waiting on the other evidence that nothing I post can be trusted.

Here is one of numerous posts to support my assertion (that you claim is a strawman).

Quote:

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I'm saying you should forgo the benefit you're entitled to by law for a moral reason, not for a personal pragmatic one.

We can't afford it. The country is broke. It is having a meaningful negative impact on our economy and society. It's burdening our children.

---

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You're inferring the poster means ALL; he even stated he would likely retain his SS benefits when that time comes. Your first post in this thread was TLDR, so you probably didn't have time to consider the linked article that also includes the luxury of the current SS program alongside the benefits of a metastasized Medicare system.

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So you wont admit that the poster literally said what I asserted. OK then. It is YOU who are inferring he did not mean all. Retaining his benefits is irrelevant to what he stated. He also told me he would gladly give all of it up when the time came!

Where is the other evidence that what I post can't be trusted?

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Your framing of the solution as an all-or-nothing proposition is an attempt to claim some sort of victimhood.
You are not the victim here; you're getting yours. Future generations facing higher taxes and/or smaller SS payouts and fewer Medicare benefits, not to mention the likelihood of higher inflation rates, are the victims of this policy.

Major geopolitical shifts often occur on very very short time frames. Usually to the complete surprise and shock to the majority of people. Consider the state of the young.

1. Right off the bat 28% aborted. They had 1/3 chance of getting snuffed out before a breath of air.

2. Job market has been crushed and those graduating even with marketable degrees are having difficulty finding work.

3. Home prices are exponentially outpacing wages. The idea of actually owning a home is nearly nonexistent in the zoomer mind.

4. Dating is a mess due to social media over exposure

5. Cost of having a family is also exponential to wages.


So you have a jaded poor unemployed economically oppressed generation with little Hope both occupationally or economically. They will have nothing to lose.

For the record I'm not advocating for them or in agreement. I just see the writing on the wall.

Logos Stick said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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Politicians will campaign on ending SS. Boomers won't have the votes.

---

Lol, show me a Democrat who will campaign on ending SS.

Boomers don't need the votes. They'll be gone. The next generation on the cusp of receiving SS will magically shift from "I never planned on it" to "I want what's mine and what I've paid into"... it happens with every generation.

The sun will stop shining before SS ends.

---

I don't understand why the bold is so hard to comprehend. The SS train can't be stopped.

---

Sometime during the 2030s both SS and Medicare will become insolvent. There will be less money coming in than going out. What happens next is anyone's guess. But if nothing happens, we'll have to accept that SS and Medicare benefits are being passed on to current and future taxpayers

Tom Fox said:

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Logos Stick said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Politicians will campaign on ending SS. Boomers won't have the votes.

---

Lol, show me a Democrat who will campaign on ending SS.

Boomers don't need the votes. They'll be gone. The next generation on the cusp of receiving SS will magically shift from "I never planned on it" to "I want what's mine and what I've paid into"... it happens with every generation.

The sun will stop shining before SS ends.

---

I don't understand why the bold is so hard to comprehend. The SS train can't be stopped.

---

Oh it will be stopped. I don't know how high the debt must climb to collapse the system, but it will eventually happen. It is just math at this point. And the math doesn't math.

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OK, it can't be stopped by the citizens willfully taking action to stop it. It will continue until we have to devalue and reset.

Logos Stick said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Logos Stick said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

---

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Politicians will campaign on ending SS. Boomers won't have the votes.

---

Lol, show me a Democrat who will campaign on ending SS.

Boomers don't need the votes. They'll be gone. The next generation on the cusp of receiving SS will magically shift from "I never planned on it" to "I want what's mine and what I've paid into"... it happens with every generation.

The sun will stop shining before SS ends.

---

I don't understand why the bold is so hard to comprehend. The SS train can't be stopped.

---

Oh it will be stopped. I don't know how high the debt must climb to collapse the system, but it will eventually happen. It is just math at this point. And the math doesn't math.

---

OK, it can't be stopped by the citizens willfully taking action to stop it. It will continue until we have to devalue and reset.

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Agreed. Not without changing who can vote.

tysker said:

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Logos Stick said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Yukon Cornelius said:

---

Politicians will campaign on ending SS. Boomers won't have the votes.

---

Lol, show me a Democrat who will campaign on ending SS.

Boomers don't need the votes. They'll be gone. The next generation on the cusp of receiving SS will magically shift from "I never planned on it" to "I want what's mine and what I've paid into"... it happens with every generation.

The sun will stop shining before SS ends.

---

I don't understand why the bold is so hard to comprehend. The SS train can't be stopped.

---

Sometime during the 2030s both SS and Medicare will become insolvent. There will be less money coming in than going out. What happens next is anyone's guess. But if nothing happens, we'll have to accept that SS and Medicare benefits are being passed on to current and future taxpayers

---

There is already less money coming in - FICA - than going out for SS. We are simply cashing bonds to pay for the excess now. The money for those bonds comes from general tax revenue. It's nothing but ledger entries.

I'm not disagreeing on the challenges young people face today. All those points you make are spot on.

That portion of the younger crowd that works hard, delays gratification, and stays out of trouble, will do just fine. There are data points in the media showing that wealth accumulation for Millenials is occurring at a faster pace than their parents and grandparents due to more robust 401ks, IRAs, HSAs -- coupled with a long term bull market. They will not only do fine, they will succeed and build wealth over their life.

The other portion of young people who won't work, or live in the moment to spend now, or can't stay away from trouble, will absolutely suffer. Mindset is important also. You typically see a will to overcome in the first portion, and a victim's mentality in the second... they are absolutely looking for someone to blame.

What you'll see is a dichotomy in the younger crowd. Some who will vote very much like their parents and grandparents, and others who vote for radical change. Lumping all young people into one voting class is off the mark.

Tom Fox said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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Tom Fox said:

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slaughtr said:

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For 32 years I've paid the maximum you can pay into SS. Every. Single. Year.
On top of that, I've paid roughly $7,000,000 in Federal taxes during that time. But sure, I'm the selfish one because I want my SS check when I retire. As promised.

I've heard how entitled youngsters are but this takes the cake.

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Dude. You paid in yearly on average slightly less than me currently. You made that much for over 3 decades. That means you are an ultra high net worth individual if you even just saved on average about 20% of that annually.

You are going to cry over your entitlement of social security? If this is true, the only way to combat this is to disenfranchise those taking a government check from SS/Medicare or any of the other needs based entitlements. Take them out of the voting pool.

Apparently not even a multi millionaire can be convinced to give up $3.5k monthly check.

At this point it is laughable.

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That is not the point. He played by the rules exactly as they were prescribed.

If you want to change the rules going forward, fine. Then round up the votes to change the rules and we'll all have to live with it.

But to change the rules after the game has been played is BS. So is trying to guilt-trip people into forfeiting the SS check they are due to receive. Total BS.

The attempt to shame people in line to collect their SS check will fail.

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I'm 34 years into paying in myself and obviously pay the max on both sides since I am self employed. We can no longer afford to give away money. We are bankrupt.

Time to return to just paying for the original constitutional functions of the federal government and eliminated the FDR and LBJ welfare state.

Edit: and the fact that someone who should be sitting on >$15mil in their retirement portfolio wants to "get his" while the government will probably be > $70 trillion by the time he takes his final breathe is laughable.

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What's laughable is not trying to cut waste and instead cut a service folks have paid for. In the name of "you have over $15 million so just shut up".

The lib narrative is Alice and well.

tysker said:

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Logos Stick said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

---

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Politicians will campaign on ending SS. Boomers won't have the votes.

---

Lol, show me a Democrat who will campaign on ending SS.

Boomers don't need the votes. They'll be gone. The next generation on the cusp of receiving SS will magically shift from "I never planned on it" to "I want what's mine and what I've paid into"... it happens with every generation.

The sun will stop shining before SS ends.

---

I don't understand why the bold is so hard to comprehend. The SS train can't be stopped.

---

Sometime during the 2030s both SS and Medicare will become insolvent. There will be less money coming in than going out. What happens next is anyone's guess. But if nothing happens, we'll have to accept that SS and Medicare benefits are being passed on to current and future taxpayers

---

LOL. SS won't be insolvent. It's a government program.

That's like saying the Military will become insolvent. Or Congress will become insolvent.

slaughtr said:

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Yup.
We borrow money from China to give money to Ukraine and these guys think politicians are going to end SS because there's no money, lol.

---

Ed gave the insurance companies $38billion in direct payments for Obamacare for folks that never used it. Didn't even know they had it. We spent $50 billion on USAID. Pretty soon, there would way more than enough to pay for whatever gap there is in funding and spending in SS and Medicare.

But liberals screech "take away SS and Medicare because you can afford it".

Quote:

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There is already less money coming in - FICA - than going out for SS. We are simply cashing bonds to pay for the excess now. The money for those bonds comes from general tax revenue. It's nothing but ledger entries.

---

That is my basis for arguing that SS is essentially welfare. Same thing with Medicare.
But there is no cost borne by the recipient; the working class and the taxpayer carry the costs. The recipient no longer has skin in the game.

Thus, maybe we should consider that recipients of these benefits lose their privilege to vote in federal elections.

Science Denier said:

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tysker said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Politicians will campaign on ending SS. Boomers won't have the votes.

---

Lol, show me a Democrat who will campaign on ending SS.

Boomers don't need the votes. They'll be gone. The next generation on the cusp of receiving SS will magically shift from "I never planned on it" to "I want what's mine and what I've paid into"... it happens with every generation.

The sun will stop shining before SS ends.

---

I don't understand why the bold is so hard to comprehend. The SS train can't be stopped.

---

Sometime during the 2030s both SS and Medicare will become insolvent. There will be less money coming in than going out. What happens next is anyone's guess. But if nothing happens, we'll have to accept that SS and Medicare benefits are being passed on to current and future taxpayers

---

LOL. SS won't be insolvent. It's a government program.

That's like saying the Military will become insolvent. Or Congress will become insolvent.

---

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money - Margaret Thatcher

MemphisAg1 said:

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That portion of the younger crowd that works hard, delays gratification, and stays out of trouble, will do just fine. There are data points in the media showing that wealth accumulation for Millenials is occurring at a faster pace than their parents and grandparents due to more robust 401ks, IRAs, HSAs -- coupled with a long term bull market. They will not only do fine, they will succeed and build wealth over their life.

---

This is exactly right.

As I've said before on another thread, in the '50s through the '90s, investing was for rich people. You needed a broker who wanted a certain level of income, commissions were sky high, you had to buy round lots, you had no way of tracking your portfolio, etc., etc.

The 401(k) didn't even go into effect until 1980.

Today all of that is simple, easy and affordable.

MemphisAg1 said:

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I'm not disagreeing on the challenges young people face today. All those points you make are spot on.

That portion of the younger crowd that works hard, delays gratification, and stays out of trouble, will do just fine. There are data points in the media showing that wealth accumulation for Millenials is occurring at a faster pace than their parents and grandparents due to more robust 401ks, IRAs, HSAs -- coupled with a long term bull market. They will not only do fine, they will succeed and build wealth over their life.

The other portion of young people who won't work, or live in the moment to spend now, or can't stay away from trouble, will absolutely suffer. Mindset is important also. You typically see a will to overcome in the first portion, and a victim's mentality in the second... they are absolutely looking for someone to blame.

What you'll see is a dichotomy in the younger crowd. Some who will vote very much like their parents and grandparents, and others who vote for radical change. Lumping all young people into one voting class is off the mark.

---

The people you think are 'ok' will bear the cost of this and they'll quit faster than you think. The tax base is shrinking. It doesn't have to be malicious, it just needs to consume too much of their income to be worth paying or possible to pay. It's math.

You should ask yourself who's going to support paying this if so few are capable of it. It's a numbers game. Yall need to start asking where the money comes from.

tysker said:

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Quote:

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There is already less money coming in - FICA - than going out for SS. We are simply cashing bonds to pay for the excess now. The money for those bonds comes from general tax revenue. It's nothing but ledger entries.

---

That is my basis for arguing that SS is essentially welfare. Same thing with Medicare.
But there is no cost borne by the recipient; the working class and the taxpayer carry the costs. The recipient no longer has skin in the game.

Thus, maybe we should consider that recipients of these benefits lose their privilege to vote in federal elections.

---

That's incorrect. Its not welfare. The total amount of money taken in by SS from inception -1935 - to the current time is more than the amount of money paid out to SS. It has paid it's way for almost 100 years now! That will end about 2035. Then it can be considered welfare.

What if we just raise the retirement age to 80. Folks are living much longer now than back when SS was rolled out.

Work until you die, then SS is no longer a problem.

EclipseAg said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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That portion of the younger crowd that works hard, delays gratification, and stays out of trouble, will do just fine. There are data points in the media showing that wealth accumulation for Millenials is occurring at a faster pace than their parents and grandparents due to more robust 401ks, IRAs, HSAs -- coupled with a long term bull market. They will not only do fine, they will succeed and build wealth over their life.

---

This is exactly right.

As I've said before on this thread, in the '50s through the '90s, investing was for rich people. You needed a broker who wanted a certain level of income, commissions were sky high, you had to buy round lots, you had no way of tracking your portfolio, etc., etc.

The 401(k) didn't even go into effect until 1980.

Today all of that is simple, easy and affordable.

---

I recall various ways the middle class or anybody really who wanted to invest back then could do so. Edward Jones had an office in every town of decent size where you could walk in and talk about setting up a portfolio. I had a Charles Schwab account and I could call a 1-800 number to their office in San Francisco to buy or sell stocks. It was very common for a lot of people.

Agreed paying $8-12 a transaction sucked. When things went online price became a competitive feature. The brokerage firms make their profits in the difference in sales price now, serving as the go-between. Plus they have other ways of raking in money like instant margin loans. It feels cheaper to retail customers but they make plenty.

AJ02 said:

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What if we just raise the retirement age to 80. Folks are living much longer now than back when SS was rolled out.

Work until you die, then SS is no longer a problem.

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That fine's, but companies don't want old people. They get sick, they are not as productive as young people, they make more money if they've been in the company for a while, etc...

Also, the mean age of having a major debilitating health issue is 66.

I'm not a Boomer (20 million are already dead with another 1K per day passing), but I'd like a Total Boomer Luxury Condominium.

I cant believe 22 people starred this garbage.

Had the system been set up right to begin with so that the allegedly "earmarked" money couldn't be used for other purposes then SS would be and would remain solvent imo. That is the fundamental issue with it .

It's essentially a forced contract with really bad terms . Had it not been forced then I would have opted out and I'd be a lot better off for it so yes , now that I contributed to it at gunpoint for almost 50 yrs I do expect my relative pittance of a return and I'm not remotely going to feel bad about it.

As much as I love our country, we shouldn't have to spend so much on healthcare or retirement. We should have a way where everyone can age out of the workforce and not be stranded. I say this after saving for 30 years for retirement and having plenty...

Our country is so ass backwards on logic, though.

AJ02 said:

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What if we just raise the retirement age to 80. Folks are living much longer now than back when SS was rolled out.

Work until you die, then SS is no longer a problem.

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I'm still at it at 73! Gotta work to pay taxes on SS!

AJ02 said:

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What if we just raise the retirement age to 80. Folks are living much longer now than back when SS was rolled out.

Work until you die, then SS is no longer a problem.

---

Time to see how much better the Boomers really are than everyone who came after them.

halfastros81 said:

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Had the system been set up right to begin with so that the allegedly "earmarked" money couldn't be used for other purposes then SS would be and would remain solvent imo. That is the fundamental issue with it .

It's essentially a forced contract with really bad terms . Had it not been forced then I would have opted out and I'd be a lot better off for it so yes , now that I contributed to it at gunpoint for almost 50 yrs I do expect my relative pittance of a return and I'm not remotely going to feel bad about it.

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That's it in a nutshell!! I remember back in my early 40's taking my Dad to a get together of his retired group and I was asked what I thought about SS and said "not planning on getting any"….I didn't and now I'm thrilled that I planned on taking care of myself with SS as a monthly bonus

halfastros81 said:

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Had the system been set up right to begin with so that the allegedly "earmarked" money couldn't be used for other purposes then SS would be and would remain solvent imo. That is the fundamental issue with it .

It's essentially a forced contract with really bad terms . Had it not been forced then I would have opted out and I'd be a lot better off for it so yes , now that I contributed to it at gunpoint for almost 50 yrs I do expect my relative pittance of a return and I'm not remotely going to feel bad about it.

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This is the problem: you know it's insolvent, you simply don't care. That's what's repeated in this thread, time after time.

That's why the revolution is coming (which is not a threat btw, it's a mathematical fact). It's alarming that y'all have changed selfishness (I'm gonna get mine) into some sort of virtue (I did my part [in the Ponzi scheme, even though I knew it wouldn't work]).