Go back and watch the videos. He's across the street when there is an altercation, not interfering. The aggressor is the ICE agent who shoves a woman to the ground for shouting at him, which is protected by the first amendment. You don't get to lay hands on people for words, and neither do they. Does it suck for those agents? Yeah, but that's the world we live in and the job they signed up and get paid for.
He and she can fight in court. If the right to free speech was violated that is for the court, not anyone on F16 or on the street.
Go back and watch the videos. He's across the street when there is an altercation, not interfering. The aggressor is the ICE agent who shoves a woman to the ground for shouting at him, which is protected by the first amendment. You don't get to lay hands on people for words, and neither do they. Does it suck for those agents? Yeah, but that's the world we live in and the job they signed up and get paid for.
The problem with your argument is that you only see video from a snapshot of the entire event…
Those officers were wearing body cams that day…
You don't know what other evidence is out there that might support a narrative different from the one you are pushing…
And frankly, given MN LEOs are now magically helping to keep these agitators out of ICE's way, it would not be unreasonable to surmise that MN politicians have been shown additional evidence not yet available for public consumption, and based on that, that could explain why they've started falling in line all of a sudden…
Go back and watch the videos. He's across the street when there is an altercation, not interfering. The aggressor is the ICE agent who shoves a woman to the ground for shouting at him, which is protected by the first amendment. You don't get to lay hands on people for words, and neither do they. Does it suck for those agents? Yeah, but that's the world we live in and the job they signed up and get paid for.
Everyone's a victim if you leave out enough details.
Go back and watch the videos. He's across the street when there is an altercation, not interfering. The aggressor is the ICE agent who shoves a woman to the ground for shouting at him, which is protected by the first amendment. You don't get to lay hands on people for words, and neither do they. Does it suck for those agents? Yeah, but that's the world we live in and the job they signed up and get paid for.
Au contraire. There is a continuum of force escalation. She can shout all she wants. Refuse to obey a lawful command? Next step, touching, next step, OC spray or taser, next step is physical arrest. Arrest, BTW, always includes a touching.
And FYI, spitting on an LEO is assault. Not recommended unless one wants a quick and painful takedown.
Alternate angle for all the low iq clowns calling it AI
Much longer clip. Altercation happens around 16:50.
This man was NOT a protestor.
Funny I haven't seen any of our lib friends comment on this video. Pretti, so peaceful, so tolerant.
Honestly, I don't particularly care. They should have arrested him then if they were going to. What they ultimately did is not justified by anything that came days before.
If you care at all to hear a legal perspective, these few minutes are worth your time.
The sound bytes around the Pretti story evade both context and personal responsibility.
No one has the right to charge into a law enforcement operation and confront officers. It's a crime. Carrying a gun while doing so makes it more volatile. pic.twitter.com/79RVZ3QTrG
Hard to be charging into a law enforcement operation when it's across the street.
Are you serious? I feel like you are just trolling now. There is very clear evidence in multiple videos that this guy is engaging. He is the Aggressor. It is obviously not too "hard" as the video(s) show him do exactly that.
Trolling, by the way, is indicative of a weak pathetic human. Pure chicken **** in this context. Have honest discussions or go away.
Alternate angle for all the low iq clowns calling it AI
Much longer clip. Altercation happens around 16:50.
This man was NOT a protestor.
Funny I haven't seen any of our lib friends comment on this video. Pretti, so peaceful, so tolerant.
Honestly, I don't particularly care. They should have arrested him then if they were going to. What they ultimately did is not justified by anything that came days before.
But it is justified when the unhinged fool introduced lethal force into a physical altercation with LEOs while obstructing law inforcement. Do you care about that?
At this point, knowing what we know, it is insane to dig your toes in and not acknowledge the terrible decisions this dude made. Those decisions led to his death. And, he was breaking the law when he died and had been for at least a couple of weeks prior (and was not arrested).
This guy is no hero. He is an idiot who made some really bad choices. He did not DESERVE to die. Goode did not DESERVE death. But often death comes to those who make really bad choices even though they are not deserving. We do not have to deserve death to acheive it.
He didn't introduce lethal force. He'd already been disarmed and never drew a weapon.
I can agree with the last part. They both made some unfortunate choices. In Goode's case, she put people in immediate danger by driving into them, and the decision to shoot is understandable. In Pretti's case, the situation is very different. He never drew a weapon or attempted to. His poor choices leading up to the shooting do not absolve the agents of their poor choices leading up to and during the shooting, nor do they place responsibility solely on Pretti. The agent who maced him started a physical altercation by shoving another person to the ground for shouting at him. That's a poor choice, though one I'm sure you'll excuse. When Pretti stepped in, he didn't pull his gun or punch that agent in the face, he simply grabbed his arm and was immediately maced and taken to the ground. In the videos I've seen, not once did he ever actually strike an agent.
What is insane is digging your toes in and not acknowledging that there are two sides to this failure, and ICE is on one of them.
Alternate angle for all the low iq clowns calling it AI
Much longer clip. Altercation happens around 16:50.
This man was NOT a protestor.
Funny I haven't seen any of our lib friends comment on this video. Pretti, so peaceful, so tolerant.
Honestly, I don't particularly care. They should have arrested him then if they were going to. What they ultimately did is not justified by anything that came days before.
But it is justified when the unhinged fool introduced lethal force into a physical altercation with LEOs while obstructing law inforcement. Do you care about that?
At this point, knowing what we know, it is insane to dig your toes in and not acknowledge the terrible decisions this dude made. Those decisions led to his death. And, he was breaking the law when he died and had been for at least a couple of weeks prior (and was not arrested).
This guy is no hero. He is an idiot who made some really bad choices. He did not DESERVE to die. Goode did not DESERVE death. But often death comes to those who make really bad choices even though they are not deserving. We do not have to deserve death to acheive it.
the agents of their poor choices
I don't see any poor choices, and its not up to you or me. You saying it was a poor choice does not mean it was. Same for me.
He died in a gutter defending illegals who have assaulted, raped, and murdered Americans. F HIM
You dont have to draw a weapon to get shot......fighting with cops while armed can get you dead.
Why was Pretti even there? He had no legitimate purpose.
He was paid by NGOs run by Democrats to cause trouble, same for this:
🚨 HOLY SMOKES. New video shows leftist rioter Alex Pretti ATTACKING AND SPITTING on federal agents in Minneapolis just a week before his fatal encounter with Border Patrol
Alternate angle for all the low iq clowns calling it AI
Much longer clip. Altercation happens around 16:50.
This man was NOT a protestor.
Funny I haven't seen any of our lib friends comment on this video. Pretti, so peaceful, so tolerant.
Honestly, I don't particularly care. They should have arrested him then if they were going to. What they ultimately did is not justified by anything that came days before.
But it is justified when the unhinged fool introduced lethal force into a physical altercation with LEOs while obstructing law inforcement. Do you care about that?
At this point, knowing what we know, it is insane to dig your toes in and not acknowledge the terrible decisions this dude made. Those decisions led to his death. And, he was breaking the law when he died and had been for at least a couple of weeks prior (and was not arrested).
This guy is no hero. He is an idiot who made some really bad choices. He did not DESERVE to die. Goode did not DESERVE death. But often death comes to those who make really bad choices even though they are not deserving. We do not have to deserve death to acheive it.
He didn't introduce lethal force. He'd already been disarmed and never drew a weapon.
I can agree with the last part. They both made some unfortunate choices. In Goode's case, she put people in immediate danger by driving into them, and the decision to shoot is understandable. In Pretti's case, the situation is very different. He never drew a weapon or attempted to. His poor choices leading up to the shooting do not absolve the agents of their poor choices leading up to and during the shooting, nor do they place responsibility solely on Pretti. The agent who maced him started a physical altercation by shoving another person to the ground for shouting at him. That's a poor choice, though one I'm sure you'll excuse. When Pretti stepped in, he didn't pull his gun or punch that agent in the face, he simply grabbed his arm and was immediately maced and taken to the ground. In the videos I've seen, not once did he ever actually strike an agent.
What is insane is digging your toes in and not acknowledging that there are two sides to this failure, and ICE is on one of them.
if the dude peacefully protests he is still alive EOD.. But the left has whipped these idiots into a frenzy and not provided the local to police to ensure safety and we have what happened, the left is to blame here not ICE
How do you know what he was doing? What happened the hour before the video. What happened even 10 mins before that video. There is a reason that part of the video isn't being released by the "peaceful protestor" side. There are pics of him on that day before he scuttled with cbp where he is all up in one agents face and space yelling at him. I don't know about you, but if I came face to face where you could feel my breath on your face yelling at you, you wouldn't say that is peaceful. I would expect you to punch me in the face if I didn't stop. I would deserve it.
Alternate angle for all the low iq clowns calling it AI
Much longer clip. Altercation happens around 16:50.
This man was NOT a protestor.
Funny I haven't seen any of our lib friends comment on this video. Pretti, so peaceful, so tolerant.
Honestly, I don't particularly care. They should have arrested him then if they were going to. What they ultimately did is not justified by anything that came days before.
If you care at all to hear a legal perspective, these few minutes are worth your time.
The sound bytes around the Pretti story evade both context and personal responsibility.
No one has the right to charge into a law enforcement operation and confront officers. It's a crime. Carrying a gun while doing so makes it more volatile. pic.twitter.com/79RVZ3QTrG
Hard to be charging into a law enforcement operation when it's across the street.
Are you serious? I feel like you are just trolling now. There is very clear evidence in multiple videos that this guy is engaging. He is the Aggressor. It is obviously not too "hard" as the video(s) show him do exactly that.
Trolling, by the way, is indicative of a weak pathetic human. Pure chicken **** in this context. Have honest discussions or go away.
Yes, I am serious. This video was from days before and is irrelevant to him being shot.
All that matters are the immediate circumstances, as we are often reminded in any officer involved shooting. It doesn't matter if the officer created the situation through their own incompetence or negligence, like showing up to the wrong house and failing to check the address, as long as the immediate circumstances justify a shooting. If we're expected to accept that, then the inverse must also be accepted. It does not matter if he helped create the circumstances of the shooting if the immediate circumstances do not justify it. He didn't draw a weapon or strike an agent. He could not have presented any immediate threat that justified shooting him.
Alternate angle for all the low iq clowns calling it AI
Much longer clip. Altercation happens around 16:50.
This man was NOT a protestor.
Funny I haven't seen any of our lib friends comment on this video. Pretti, so peaceful, so tolerant.
Honestly, I don't particularly care. They should have arrested him then if they were going to. What they ultimately did is not justified by anything that came days before.
But it is justified when the unhinged fool introduced lethal force into a physical altercation with LEOs while obstructing law inforcement. Do you care about that?
At this point, knowing what we know, it is insane to dig your toes in and not acknowledge the terrible decisions this dude made. Those decisions led to his death. And, he was breaking the law when he died and had been for at least a couple of weeks prior (and was not arrested).
This guy is no hero. He is an idiot who made some really bad choices. He did not DESERVE to die. Goode did not DESERVE death. But often death comes to those who make really bad choices even though they are not deserving. We do not have to deserve death to acheive it.
He didn't introduce lethal force. He'd already been disarmed and never drew a weapon.
I can agree with the last part. They both made some unfortunate choices. In Goode's case, she put people in immediate danger by driving into them, and the decision to shoot is understandable. In Pretti's case, the situation is very different. He never drew a weapon or attempted to. His poor choices leading up to the shooting do not absolve the agents of their poor choices leading up to and during the shooting, nor do they place responsibility solely on Pretti. The agent who maced him started a physical altercation by shoving another person to the ground for shouting at him. That's a poor choice, though one I'm sure you'll excuse. When Pretti stepped in, he didn't pull his gun or punch that agent in the face, he simply grabbed his arm and was immediately maced and taken to the ground. In the videos I've seen, not once did he ever actually strike an agent.
What is insane is digging your toes in and not acknowledging that there are two sides to this failure, and ICE is on one of them.
So you admit he initiated contact with a federal agent. Then he continued to fight federal agents while being armed. You have no idea what it's like for these agents that deal with the absolute dregs of society everyday. Monday morning QBing is always so easy from behind your keyboard. Pretti made the bed he gets to sleep in forever.
Covidians, Communists, CNN, FOX, and all other MSM are enemies of the state and should be treated as such.
He didn't introduce lethal force. He'd already been disarmed and never drew a weapon.
Typical rephrasing of a situation that makes it sound like he was peaceful. No person who has any gun training could justify his actions leading up to this as just a regular person being peaceful. Being irresponsible does not make reasonable reactions to that irresponsibility anyone elses fault.
Alternate angle for all the low iq clowns calling it AI
Much longer clip. Altercation happens around 16:50.
This man was NOT a protestor.
Funny I haven't seen any of our lib friends comment on this video. Pretti, so peaceful, so tolerant.
Honestly, I don't particularly care. They should have arrested him then if they were going to. What they ultimately did is not justified by anything that came days before.
But it is justified when the unhinged fool introduced lethal force into a physical altercation with LEOs while obstructing law inforcement. Do you care about that?
At this point, knowing what we know, it is insane to dig your toes in and not acknowledge the terrible decisions this dude made. Those decisions led to his death. And, he was breaking the law when he died and had been for at least a couple of weeks prior (and was not arrested).
This guy is no hero. He is an idiot who made some really bad choices. He did not DESERVE to die. Goode did not DESERVE death. But often death comes to those who make really bad choices even though they are not deserving. We do not have to deserve death to acheive it.
He didn't introduce lethal force. He'd already been disarmed and never drew a weapon.
I can agree with the last part. They both made some unfortunate choices. In Goode's case, she put people in immediate danger by driving into them, and the decision to shoot is understandable. In Pretti's case, the situation is very different. He never drew a weapon or attempted to. His poor choices leading up to the shooting do not absolve the agents of their poor choices leading up to and during the shooting, nor do they place responsibility solely on Pretti. The agent who maced him started a physical altercation by shoving another person to the ground for shouting at him. That's a poor choice, though one I'm sure you'll excuse. When Pretti stepped in, he didn't pull his gun or punch that agent in the face, he simply grabbed his arm and was immediately maced and taken to the ground. In the videos I've seen, not once did he ever actually strike an agent.
What is insane is digging your toes in and not acknowledging that there are two sides to this failure, and ICE is on one of them.
He did introduce lethal force. Having a firearm while obstructing LEOs, then engaging and physicall resisting, is introducing lethal force to the context of the situation. If he had no weapon only force would have been introduced. Still not good but magnitudes better and does not elevate the threat. I did not say he used lethal force. Remember we are discussing the full context of the situation and the decisions made that led to a human's death. It is critical when asking "was this justified". Or, you can ignore the full context and pick and choose what you acknowledge to support how you feel. This is why you are getting so many responses right now.
So, for your own safety, if you choose to carry, and get in an altercation with anyone (much less LEOs) you should know that you ARE introducing lethal force to the context of that situation.
The agent who maced him started a physical altercation by shoving another person to the ground for shouting at him. That's a poor choice, though one I'm sure you'll excuse.
This is between the agent and that woman. Anyone that intervenes and isn't a LEO is committing a crime.
A lot of the usual suspects have disappeared since the new Pretti Jan 13th video surface, it's literally been crickets since, all the great defenders of the caring nurse vanished.
To the whatabouter's that continually compared Rittenhouse to Pretti here's a little lesson
The claim they both showed up to a protest with a weapon, okay perhaps. If I remember right Rittenhouse was there with two friends to protect one of the friends family Auto Repair shop.
DIfference is how Rittenhouse interacted with law enforcement
One is alive today and one is not
Both of these cases, and for that matter Rachel Good, are instructive. When you show up to a highly charged crowd with a weapon or something that could be used as a weapon (or if someone else has a weapon), you put yourself in a very risky situation. It only takes a couple of bad decisions by you or someone you may not even know for things to quickly turn bad. Alex Pretti is dead. Rachel Good is dead. Kyle Rittenhouse is not dead, but getting out of his predicament was not easy. I suspect he may have some regrets about his choices that day. All of them probably would have stayed home if they had known what was going to happen.
I avoid crowds for these reasons. Too many dumbasses out there to easily cause mobs to get out of hand. I don't even like attending sporting events as much as I used to.
Definitely fake, but it's irrelevant whether this guy ever did good things in his life. Even the most evil of people can do good things at times. The day he died, he died because of his foolish and violent actions.
“Some people bring joy wherever they go, and some people bring joy whenever they go.” ~ Mark Twain
How do you know what he was doing? What happened the hour before the video. What happened even 10 mins before that video. There is a reason that part of the video isn't being released by the "peaceful protestor" side. There are pics of him on that day before he scuttled with cbp where he is all up in one agents face and space yelling at him. I don't know about you, but if I came face to face where you could feel my breath on your face yelling at you, you wouldn't say that is peaceful. I would expect you to punch me in the face if I didn't stop. I would deserve it.
For one, none of that matters. As I said in another post, what matters are the immediate circumstances and whether they justify shooting someone. Here, they clearly, to me, do not.
For two, what if I just shot you in the face instead? Do you deserve it? Am I justified in killing you because you're acting like an *******?
Alternate angle for all the low iq clowns calling it AI
Much longer clip. Altercation happens around 16:50.
This man was NOT a protestor.
Funny I haven't seen any of our lib friends comment on this video. Pretti, so peaceful, so tolerant.
Honestly, I don't particularly care. They should have arrested him then if they were going to. What they ultimately did is not justified by anything that came days before.
If you care at all to hear a legal perspective, these few minutes are worth your time.
The sound bytes around the Pretti story evade both context and personal responsibility.
No one has the right to charge into a law enforcement operation and confront officers. It's a crime. Carrying a gun while doing so makes it more volatile. pic.twitter.com/79RVZ3QTrG
Hard to be charging into a law enforcement operation when it's across the street.
Are you serious? I feel like you are just trolling now. There is very clear evidence in multiple videos that this guy is engaging. He is the Aggressor. It is obviously not too "hard" as the video(s) show him do exactly that.
Trolling, by the way, is indicative of a weak pathetic human. Pure chicken **** in this context. Have honest discussions or go away.
Yes, I am serious. This video was from days before and is irrelevant to him being shot.
All that matters are the immediate circumstances, as we are often reminded in any officer involved shooting. It doesn't matter if the officer created the situation through their own incompetence or negligence, like showing up to the wrong house and failing to check the address, as long as the immediate circumstances justify a shooting. If we're expected to accept that, then the inverse must also be accepted. It does not matter if he helped create the circumstances of the shooting if the immediate circumstances do not justify it. He didn't draw a weapon or strike an agent. He could not have presented any immediate threat that justified shooting him.
It is irrelevant to you. Want to guess if it will be included in the defense teams case when this goes to court? It is documentation of his intent to obstruct while armed. It is documentation that this guy was not protesting which his lawyers will be arguing. It is relevant. Maybe the most relevant information available at this point.
He didn't introduce lethal force. He'd already been disarmed and never drew a weapon.
Typical rephrasing of a situation that makes it sound like he was peaceful. No person who has any gun training could justify his actions leading up to this as just a regular person being peaceful. Being irresponsible does not make reasonable reactions to that irresponsibility anyone elses fault.
It's why I said earlier don't engage the troll who is being intentionally obtuse. "Disarming" implies he no longer has a weapon on his person and there was no way for the agents to know that until he was frisked/patted down but that couldn't happen with him actively fighting them, similar to what he did on the 13th.
Once an agent yelled "GUN" any further aggressive movements by Pretti were going to be met with lethal force. If he lays prone on the ground without resistance he's very likely alive today. If he doesn't bring a gun at all he's definitely alive today.
The agent who maced him started a physical altercation by shoving another person to the ground for shouting at him. That's a poor choice, though one I'm sure you'll excuse.
This is between the agent and that woman. Anyone that intervenes and isn't a LEO is committing a crime.
Not saying it isn't, but to say that he was the aggressor when that agent decided he was going to assault someone for exercising their first amendment right is a false assertion.
That woman was interfering with a vehicle across the street just prior, then comes up behind another agent and pops off in his face. His shove to create space of someone breaking the law is absolutely warranted. Then Pretti puts himself in the middle and takes a stance against the cop. He's in it now
Not saying it isn't, but to say that he was the aggressor when that agent decided he was going to assault someone for exercising their first amendment right is a false assertion.
Saying that was the only thing she was doing is the false assertion.
The agent who maced him started a physical altercation by shoving another person to the ground for shouting at him. That's a poor choice, though one I'm sure you'll excuse.
This is between the agent and that woman. Anyone that intervenes and isn't a LEO is committing a crime.
Not saying it isn't, but to say that he was the aggressor when that agent decided he was going to assault someone for exercising their first amendment right is a false assertion.
It's not. What the agent does to the woman is irrelevant in terms of their encounter with Pretti. He has no obligation or legal expectation to intervene. In fact, his intervention legally makes him the aggressor because it's a crime.
Frey's little talk with Holman must have got him in line.
Here's to hoping Frey and others are frog marched soon.
It's not entirely impossible that Frey and others have been threatened with federal legal action and presented with some things perhaps not known to the public at large, and they've been offered a deal under the table to cease and desist unless they want all of the evidence that could create significant legal problems for them coming to light...
This was my take.
The Signal chats issue created a lot of panic, and the MN government seemed to pivot pretty hard when that came to light.
The agent who maced him started a physical altercation by shoving another person to the ground for shouting at him. That's a poor choice, though one I'm sure you'll excuse.
This is between the agent and that woman. Anyone that intervenes and isn't a LEO is committing a crime.
Not saying it isn't, but to say that he was the aggressor when that agent decided he was going to assault someone for exercising their first amendment right is a false assertion.
Ho-lee-mole-ee. Please avoid protests. I fear your reasoning will get you in trouble. Serious, not being a d***.
Alternate angle for all the low iq clowns calling it AI
Much longer clip. Altercation happens around 16:50.
This man was NOT a protestor.
Funny I haven't seen any of our lib friends comment on this video. Pretti, so peaceful, so tolerant.
Honestly, I don't particularly care. They should have arrested him then if they were going to. What they ultimately did is not justified by anything that came days before.
If you care at all to hear a legal perspective, these few minutes are worth your time.
The sound bytes around the Pretti story evade both context and personal responsibility.
No one has the right to charge into a law enforcement operation and confront officers. It's a crime. Carrying a gun while doing so makes it more volatile. pic.twitter.com/79RVZ3QTrG
Hard to be charging into a law enforcement operation when it's across the street.
LOL I see. You just don't care about truth. How in the world did Pretti come to the aid of the lady being actively detained without charging into active enforcement by LEO????
How do you know what he was doing? What happened the hour before the video. What happened even 10 mins before that video. There is a reason that part of the video isn't being released by the "peaceful protestor" side. There are pics of him on that day before he scuttled with cbp where he is all up in one agents face and space yelling at him. I don't know about you, but if I came face to face where you could feel my breath on your face yelling at you, you wouldn't say that is peaceful. I would expect you to punch me in the face if I didn't stop. I would deserve it.
For one, none of that matters. As I said in another post, what matters are the immediate circumstances and whether they justify shooting someone. Here, they clearly, to me, do not.
Go back and watch the videos. He's across the street when there is an altercation, not interfering. The aggressor is the ICE agent who shoves a woman to the ground for shouting at him, which is protected by the first amendment. You don't get to lay hands on people for words, and neither do they. Does it suck for those agents? Yeah, but that's the world we live in and the job they signed up and get paid for.
This is a complete lie. Both Pretti and the woman were in the street, not standing on the sidewalk peacefully protesting. Pretti was actually directing cars to drive through the ICE operation.
The woman was definitely pushed out of the road by an ICE agent. It was because she was impeding or interfering with their operation, not because she exercised her First Amendment right. Pretti went to defend the woman, and thus further inserted himself into the ICE operation.
Don't make it sound like ICE attacked these two while they were just holding up signs on the sidewalk. They intentionally put themselves in harm's way.
Frey's little talk with Holman must have got him in line.
Here's to hoping Frey and others are frog marched soon.
It's not entirely impossible that Frey and others have been threatened with federal legal action and presented with some things perhaps not known to the public at large, and they've been offered a deal under the table to cease and desist unless they want all of the evidence that could create significant legal problems for them coming to light...
This was my take.
The Signal chats issue created a lot of panic, and the MN government seemed to pivot pretty hard when that came to light.
Definitely agree…and its probably even more problematic that Pretti was actively involved in the Signal chat group and, in his case, he was responding to call to mobilize at the location he died at, as he had done previously (again, per his posts on that Signal chat group)…
Now that it gas come to light that this Signal chat group was run and operated by politicians/public servants at the state and local level in MN, probably causes all sorts of problems for them…
He didn't introduce lethal force. He'd already been disarmed and never drew a weapon.
Typical rephrasing of a situation that makes it sound like he was peaceful. No person who has any gun training could justify his actions leading up to this as just a regular person being peaceful. Being irresponsible does not make reasonable reactions to that irresponsibility anyone elses fault.
Peaceful has nothing to do with it. Until someone draws a weapon or presents an immediate threat to you, you don't have a justification to shoot them. You can see a guy yelling at people the street, kicking over trash cans, and generally being an *******, but unless he pulls out a weapon or presents an immediate threat to people, you're going to be charged with murder if you shoot him.
