It is so weird to see anyone defend the Fed.

That very well may be true. Although the Dems had put on some pretty good ones. My ultimate point is you don't have to pick a side. Trump vs Fed. Powell and this senator definitely deserve criticism for their crying. Just submit the docs to the grand jury.

MemphisAg1 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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So you are absolutely certain the probe by the DOJ will show Powell is 100% clean as a whistle?

You can only say that at this point by engaging full fledged TDS to call this a political ploy within minutes of it being announced.

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Like we've discussed before, TDS also exists on the right for those who defend Trump at the drop of a hat from any criticism, even when it's warranted.

I neither believe something is automatically wrong because Trump did it, or that it's automatically right because he did it. I evaluate each situation independent of the others.

I'm not saying that Powell is 100% clean. I don't know. But given what we know about the man, I think there's a very high probability (85%+) that he is clean.

And given what we've seen from Trump on this issue and his history of trying to bully Powell, sometimes the obvious answer is what you see right in front of you. It takes a special kind of super-dedicated Trump cheerleader not to acknowledge that this is likely just Trump trying to bully him. The track record is clear as day.

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So just say "I think Powell is innocent cause I think his track record shows he's just a solid guy" but you offer nothing to support. In fact, your assertion ignores Powell's unusual, unexplained action of lowering rates right before the 2024 election. So let's cut the "given what we know about the man" crap.

You concede, somewhat laughably, that its 85% Powell can fully justify a $2.5 billion renovation to a not so big building. But Trump is just a bully.

Before seeing one scintilla of information that led to the DOJ's action, it takes a super-dedicated Trump hater to not acknowledge that maybe, just maybe this is legit.

Too funny. Oh the irony.

It's just a subpoena. They want information. If doesn't mean anything else is going to happen.

Interesting how the Left just discovered the concept of lawfare as if the phony Mar a Lago docs case never happened...not to mention Leticia James, Fawny Willis...J6 committee...

Yukon Cornelius said:

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That very well may be true. Although the Dems had put on some pretty good ones. My ultimate point is you don't have to pick a side. Trump vs Fed. Powell and this senator definitely deserve criticism for their crying. Just submit the docs to the grand jury.

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Yes, the Dems have... I overshot it there, lol.

I'm not picking sides, but see the optics for what they are. The Trump administration criminally investigating a Fed Chair that the president has been publicly insulting because he won't lower rates as fast as he wants... five months before said Chair leaves... is a bit suspicious, don't you think?

How can one not acknowledge that?

Trump floats a lot of balloons that end up being good ideas. Every now and then he floats a dud. This is one of them.

It's a Qatari gift to the Air Force that will cost 25% vs the other two to retrofit.

The rest is just baseless ranting.

They are completely unaccountable for anything...we still get rampant inflation and out of control money printing.

MouthBQ98 said:

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It's just a subpoena. They want information. If doesn't mean anything else is going to happen.

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Subpoenas still require a response. Additional time, money, and resources will be spent internally collecting data, reading contracts, contacting contractors and subcontractors, and each of those parties will have to do the same. Just because nothing may happen in the future doesn't mean people don't have to work on this documentation today.

Folks who say the Fed board of governors is independent and should remain that way seem to not acknowledge in any way the appointment of one Lisa D. Cook by Joe Robinette Biden.

Do we think Cook is some independent thinker knowledgeable on global markets and economic and performs at such a highly informed, unbiased level that she and he compadres can never, should never be questioned? GMAFB.

At least see what the DOJ is up to here. Instead it's just nothing but reeeee from the left and squishy middle who just browse the internet for the next Trump flatulation.

AgBQ-00 said:

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They are completely unaccountable for anything...we still get rampant inflation and out of control money printing.

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Ya that's what I thought. Your opinions are absent logic and are built solely on the cult of personality that is Donald Trump.

tysker said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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It's just a subpoena. They want information. If doesn't mean anything else is going to happen.

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Subpoenas still require a response. Additional time, money, and resources will be spent internally collecting data, reading contracts, contacting contractors and subcontractors, and each of those parties will have to do the same. Just because nothing may happen in the future doesn't mean people don't have to work on this documentation today.

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Oh noes! Feds & Friends may have to cancel their spring conference in Jackson Hole so Powell can make his people actually work vs planning his next Ted Talk appearance.

Hullabaloonatic said:

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AgBQ-00 said:

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They are completely unaccountable for anything...we still get rampant inflation and out of control money printing.

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Ya that's what I thought. Your opinions are absent logic and are built solely on the cult of personality that is Donald Trump.

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TDS is a much larger, more fervent CULT than is any perceived "cult" of people wanting to put America first.

1. The fed is kicking the can down the road. That can only happen so much.

2. The fed has become a political arm. The fed lowered rates prior to the election (during an inflationary period) to assist Biden.

3. Something I did not know until last year - and I'm sure most people don't know - the federal reserve is privately owned.

True. Compliance is required. I have to do this periodically in my job for legal holds and document subpoenas occasionally and it is a pain and annoyance to comply but that's part of the job and the law.

I would be curious also what exactly they might be investigating BUT there is plenty of legal precedent to not make public details of these investigations as to not taint the investigation or harm the rights and reputations of those involved.

CrackerJackAg said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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It's just more bad Trump. Very dumb.

He's leaving in May and Trump can announce his replacement any day.

I don't agree with pushing rates lower with GDP ~3%, inflation ~3%, and unemployment ~4.5% and interest rates at historical norms. Doesn't make sense.

That said, he sees it differently and can put his own guy in shortly. This runs a real risk of the bond market demanding HIGHER rates for the 10 year note and beyond, which will just keep mortgage rates at current levels or higher.

You're going to criminally indict the Fed Chair five months before his term ends? On questionable grounds?

Just so dumb... no need for it.

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I see this through the lenses of debt repayment and the ability to a a budget and still spend large mounts of money.

The governments entire budget would be gone instantly with 10% interest. Entire budget would be debt repayment. 3% is 1/3 the debt payment.

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I agree with the lens you are taking but we are never going to get to 10% because of what you said. The debt is already too far gone for those kinds of numbers. It's why we will only ever see quarter and half basis point increments from here on out. Any larger than that and you shut the country down.

Our debt interest is now $1T per year and rising. It's the #2 line item in annual spending now. That's $1T being thrown into the debt void and not being spent on the American people every year.

It's known that Trump wants even lower rates for a few different reasons and that's why he's doing this. I think the $2.5B renovation is just the cover he's using to get at Powell. In parallel, the Fed spending $2.5B on a renovation is abuse of tax payer dollars. They should be renting out office space somewhere in an existing office building. Thus, two things can be true at the same time (1) Trump is bullying Powell over interest rates via the renovation (2) We shouldn't be paying for a $2.5B renovation.

There is zero reason for them to have a campus like this:

Hullabaloonatic said:

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AgBQ-00 said:

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They are completely unaccountable for anything...we still get rampant inflation and out of control money printing.

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Ya that's what I thought. Your opinions are absent logic and are built solely on the cult of personality that is Donald Trump.

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They are not accountable, they create inflation and they print money at will. That's why we are on the brink of disaster with our national debt. One that we will most likely address by devaluing the currency. You might not agree with his statements but they are not void of logic.

has nothing to do with Trump...no pseudo-governmental authority should have the control over the economy that the fed does. they face no repercussions from the public, they are insulated away from elections and throw a hissy fit and ignore any oversight exactly because they are unaccountable to ANYONE. As seen since covid they print money and create inflationary issues. ~80% of all US currency ever printed has been printed since 2020 (that is very old numbers at this point it was in 2021)

Ervin Burrell said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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No he's not. This senator is throwing a temper tantrum like one of my kids. If Powell is clean just submit the docs and make Trump and his administration look like fools wasting tax payer money. But Powell going on Twitter to cry and this senator who has beef with Trump refusing to do his job and hold up a vacant chair is peak absurdity.

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Lol, I've seen a lot more temper tantrums on social media from Trump than all US Senators combined.

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You don't understand. When Trump posts senile ramblings at 5 AM on the toilet, it's "owning the triggered libtards." If anyone else does something remotely similar, they're "throwing a tantrum."

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Trump doesn't sit on the toilet. His poop is carefully collected and wrapped in gold leaf before being freeze dried and kept for future research. The pee, as golden and pure as it is, is donated to the Potomac.

Logos Stick said:

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Hullabaloonatic said:

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AgBQ-00 said:

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They are completely unaccountable for anything...we still get rampant inflation and out of control money printing.

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Ya that's what I thought. Your opinions are absent logic and are built solely on the cult of personality that is Donald Trump.

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They are not accountable, they create inflation and they print money at will. That's why we are on the brink of disaster with our national debt. One that we will most likely address by devaluing the currency. You might not agree with his statements but they are not void of logic.

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He wants to abolish the entire Fed without giving ANY reasoning. You understand that inflation is a necessary component of a growing, healthy economy right? Most economists agree that 2% is the ideal rate, so while our current 2.7% is a little over the ideal, it's actually better than 0%.

Hullabaloonatic said:

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Queso1 said:

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1. The fed is kicking the can down the road. That can only happen so much.

2. The fed has become a political arm. The fed lowered rates prior to the election (during an inflationary period) to assist Biden.

3. Something I did not know until last year - and I'm sure most people don't know - the federal reserve is privately owned.

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1. Kicking what can?

2. Lol gtfo. Trump tweeted that without any evidence PLUS it completely undercuts the 'conspiracy' when the Fed also cut rates in the Sept 2019. So did the Fed cut rates in Sept 2025 to 'help Biden'? Or did they cut rates in Sept 2019 to help Trump? In either case, they failed because both Presidents lost their bid for re-election in years where the Fed Reserve cut rates leading to election day.

3. The Federal Reserve is not "owned" by anyone; it has a unique hybrid structure with both public and private aspects that allow it to operate independently within the government. No different than other cabinet independent agencies like NASA, EPA or USPS.

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2. Election was in November 2020. Feds had essentially held rates the entirety of 2020 leading up to the stolen election.

3. The Founding Fathers did not create a "unique hybrid structure with both public and private aspects that allow it to operate independently within government" which itself is both inaccurate and incomprehensible. There are actual differences in the wording setting up the agencies you reference and the Federal Reserve.

And for reference, the EPA is led by Lee Zeldin and is one of the 15 departments in the Executive. Lee is a cabinet member and his organization is most certainly to independent nor should it be.

you say I have no reasoning but you're wrong...they have created a situation where the purchasing power of the average citizen is nothing. The totality of mass migration, which leads to a watered down job market and keeps wages down, the highly inflated money supply, and the mandated red tape on building any sort of medium - heavy industry creates a nightmare for the working people of the US. Knocking an unelected unaccountable leg out from under that structure is a step in the right direction.

Fiat monetary policy is theater at this point. It's run its course. I look at it as almost purely for stock market prognosticators from here forward.

Why? Because what I already said. The debt is too high and too far gone for them to do anything about it. It's why they only tweak around the edges these days with rates. It's almost purely psychological for the talking heads to feel like we are doing something to motivate the economy.

If we found ourselves in a period of really high inflation again, what are they gonna do about it? Nothing because they can't. Volcker moves are extinct and mathematically impossible with close to $40T in debt. This is simply proof that we are very near the end of a fiat money system.

Ervin Burrell said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Ervin Burrell said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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No he's not. This senator is throwing a temper tantrum like one of my kids. If Powell is clean just submit the docs and make Trump and his administration look like fools wasting tax payer money. But Powell going on Twitter to cry and this senator who has beef with Trump refusing to do his job and hold up a vacant chair is peak absurdity.

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Lol, I've seen a lot more temper tantrums on social media from Trump than all US Senators combined.

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You don't understand. When Trump posts senile ramblings at 5 AM on the toilet, it's "owning the triggered libtards." If anyone else does something remotely similar, they're "throwing a tantrum."

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Trump doesn't sit on the toilet. His poop is carefully collected and wrapped in gold leaf before being freeze dried and kept for future research. The pee, as golden and pure as it is, is donated to the Potomac.

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And you'd be the first to taste it, if asked.

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Better than Biden pudding in a cone.

Make crass statements about where Trump tweets from at 5am and expect crass responses.

And given what Powell has spent on his "palace", Trump hay have to up his production and sell his Golden Trump Nuggets to pay for the new digs.

Is Powell still able to perform his current duties while this is going on?

YouBet said:

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Fiat monetary policy is theater at this point. It's run its course. I look at it as almost purely for stock market prognosticators from here forward.

Why? Because what I already said. The debt is too high and too far gone for them to do anything about it. It's why they only tweak around the edges these days with rates. It's almost purely psychological for the talking heads to feel like we are doing something to motivate the economy.

If we found ourselves in a period of really high inflation again, what are they gonna do about it? Nothing because they can't. Volcker moves are extinct and mathematically impossible with close to $40T in debt. This is simply proof that we are very near the end of a fiat money system.

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On point words right here. At this point, the average f16 poster needs to navigate the best path through the current landscape. Standing with Massie and Randy on cutting all gubmit spending to zero so you can pay off the debt and live the Dave Ramsey life is not plausible (and frankly not the best outcome).

BTW - One way to solve the debt is doing what Trump is doing in VZ and potentially in Iran as well. Crush em, exploit em, and scrape those proceeds until your debt is paid off.

Regarding China… cut' em off and starve them as you replace the global reliance on cheap Chinese goods with cheap Iranian and VZ and Indian goods.

No Spin Ag said:

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Is Powell still able to perform his current duties while this is going on?

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Who is going to tell him not to? According to many posters here, the Fed board lives above and outside the law. Independent 4th branch with subservience to no one.

It must have been included in an obscure version of the US Constitution known only to certain folks, but evidently no one puts Jerome in the corner.