That's a defeatist attitude

Jarrin Jay said:

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Both my boys are in private school and we will realize exactly $0.00 from this program.

The absolute first measure should have been if you are private or home schooling that should exempt you from ISD taxes until the kids are 18+.

Many public schools are an absolute S show - way too much virtue / social / political BS and messaging, too much waste of taxpayer $$, not enough focus on basic education, responsible use of taxpayer $, etc.

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So parents with school age children should be excused? How about parents (or singles) without children?

No logical reason to excuse one without the other. If you have kids, your choice. But excluding yourselves from taxation raises the load for everyone else, including those parents with kids still in public education.

And I do sympathise with the costs. But not by making it more expensive for others who are largely trapped in a worse situation -- without the income to even think about private schools.

I still don't understand how this is going to work for the families in lower income brackets who are relatively guaranteed to get selected to receive funds, but, they do not already have their kids enrolled/accepted into private school?

Many private schools (in Houston at least) are extremely competitive to get into, especially if you are applying after PK or Kindergarten. And getting in can create lots of logistical headaches if parents are used to sending their kids to the local public school (examples - no bus, expensive uniforms, paid lunches, etc) that may cause them to not accept a limited enrollment slot. Not to mention, the tuition may end up being more expensive than the fund amounts disbursed - this would be especially true for private high schools. But most confusingly for me, the funds are supposed to be disbursed on July 1st. Many schools are going to have enrollment deadlines well before that and some even make you pay the full amounts up front. My kids tuition is due in full on May 1st and it's my understanding that reimbursing yourself with TEFA funds is not allowed.

I think overall this program is a good step in the right direction, but it seems like there's a lot to be desired to actually provide "school choice" when the choice of a reputable private school may still be far out of reach for people. Solving the monetary shortfall does not solve all the other issues.

I also realize that money isn't unlimited, but when the majority of current private school parents are not going to see anything from this program and property taxes aren't going away either it doesn't feel like a well designed program.

I'm also wondering how they will work around/enforce the punishment of fraudulent schools that will be collecting TEFA funds from parents who couldn't get their kids into "real" private schools which is 100% about to happen Minneapolis style.

richardag said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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teachers want more pay and less work. They care only about themselves not our kids

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Teachers are underpaid for the effect they have on society.
Problem is the administrative bureaucracy has grown exponentially, sucking up resources to shuffle papers to meet other bureaucracy's idiotic demands.
Our youngest daughter is a special needs teacher and the amount of work she does is horrendous.She does it because it is rewarding to see children grow and parents see that growth. The parents let her know how much it positively affected their child.

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meh she gets summers off so that makes up for overtime. I work overtime and have to work summers, occasional weekend, and most holidays

58-7 said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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teachers want more pay and less work. They care only about themselves not our kids

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What a lazy comment. You describe maybe 10-15% of the teachers I worked with in my 36 yrs in education in Texas (and we worked hard to invite that percentage to other careers outside of education). The vast majority of educators are conscientious, hard workers, and love children….and deserve support. If that was your experience as a student I hate that for you. If that is your experience as an adult you have many options for your kids.

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Thanks Texas for school choice vouchers !

Jarrin Jay said:

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Both my boys are in private school and we will realize exactly $0.00 from this program.

The absolute first measure should have been if you are private or home schooling that should exempt you from ISD taxes until the kids are 18+.

Many public schools are an absolute S show - way too much virtue / social / political BS and messaging, too much waste of taxpayer $$, not enough focus on basic education, responsible use of taxpayer $, etc.

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How does that work if you are a renter?

Having state dollars follow the student, whether to a public school or somewhere else, is the cleanest way to do it.

Remember, taxes are taxes. Spending is spending.

It's like the idea that you "pay into" social security. No, you are taxed. The government then decides how to spend those tax dollars.

I didn't realize private schools could opt out of accepting the funding. All the options we're looking at for our kids have already come out and said they're not taking vouchers next year (they're religious schools afraid of strings that could become attached to the money in the future).

I don't think the public schools can compete effectively because of instrinsic barriers. They've built this machine that can't adapt even if it wanted to. I'm sure there are many teachers who experience the frustration of not being able to implement common sense changes because of idiocy like no child ieft behind. Public education is destined to lose and it's not the fault of those in the system.

TXAG 05 said:

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Just want to know where I can get my voucher/refund for paying taxes and not having any kids.

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All us boomers who are the cause of all the world's problems and who get all the undeserved tax breaks would like this to be retroactive so that we get reimbursed for all the money we poured into educating our now grown children. Who should I call about that?

Think about it when your social security is deposited

Silent For Too Long said:

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I disagree. They will be forced to adapt.

If they want to keep good students, maybe they should go back to kicking out the bad ones

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Owlagdad said:

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And growing.
Probably would say most are parents of existing private schoolers who want their tax money to go their child's education.
Hope it works for them!
Tyler ISD Supt views it as competition! Maybe when viewed like that Public schools will get better!!

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What a novel way to look at it. He gets half a point of respect from me.

However... the public school system must be crushed until it stops pushing wokeness on the masses and reembraces Christian ethics and morality - regardless of previous BAD Scotus decisions.

Until then.... look for the public schools to continue to lose ground to home schoolers and Christian schooling. And Thank God for that as well!

Christ is King!

Logos Stick said:

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I don't think the public schools can compete effectively because of instrinsic barriers. They've built this machine that can't adapt even if it wanted to. I'm sure there are many teachers who experience the frustration of not being able to implement common sense changes because of idiocy like no child ieft behind. Public education is destined to lose and it's not the fault of those in the system.

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The biggest equalization of quality education is the ability of families to get vouchers to get their kids out of bad schools and into good ones.

Not only does it hold BAD districts accountable through losing funding, but it provides the means by which people who otherwise could not afford a quality education a way to get one for their kids.

Black and Hispanic urban children are the biggest winners here. But you won't hear the Democrats do anything but claim it's harming them. They want "Quality LEARING" provided that helps them maintain power..... along with a dumbed down population as well.

TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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Why would they need to ask teachers? The NEA, AFT, PTA, and every other organization that claims to speak for teachers has spoken loudly and clearly for the past 40 years. They say they need more money which translates into higher pay, less responsibility, and lots and lots of non-teaching administrative staff. They've been given trillions abd performance has dropped precipitouslly over the decades.

Real academic success in the face of low income tax base has been achieved many times and the ingredients are well documented. The two basic ingredients are high standards and accountability. Teachers like Jaime Escalante knew how to do it. Dunbar H.S. in Washington D.C. put out hundreds of high achievers that made history in the era of segregation and a budget that was a fraction of the white schools. Nobody wants to learn those lessons. They would rather listen to Randi Weingarten.

Martin Cash said:

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TRM said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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teachers want more pay and less work. They care only about themselves not our kids

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I'll agree with this, but I think some the work is they don't want to do is the NCLB garbage.

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Were you left behind?

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I left y'all behind.

Students mostly need engaged parents to be successful. Can't buy that.

As far as the hierarchy of education, I still fully believe nothing beats a quality public school. Then there's private school and below that poor public school.

Teachers having input! LOLOLOLOL.

Teachers have zero input most of the time. In one ear out the other.

Administrators and the central office, make all the decisions. And, most don't listen to the teachers.

I left teaching because I wasn't able to teach any longer. My principal was a limp dick, and wouldn't support me and disciplining students. The students knew there were no repercussions to their actions.

zooguy96 said:

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Teachers having input! LOLOLOLOL.

Teachers have zero input most of the time. In one ear out the other.

Administrators and the central office, make all the decisions. And, most don't listen to the teachers.

I left teaching because I wasn't able to teach any longer. My principal was a limp dick, and wouldn't support me and disciplining students. The students knew there were no repercussions to their actions.

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lol you have to blame administration for your lack of classroom management

Old Army Ghost said:

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zooguy96 said:

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Teachers having input! LOLOLOLOL.

Teachers have zero input most of the time. In one ear out the other.

Administrators and the central office, make all the decisions. And, most don't listen to the teachers.

I left teaching because I wasn't able to teach any longer. My principal was a limp dick, and wouldn't support me and disciplining students. The students knew there were no repercussions to their actions.

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lol you have to blame administration for your lack of classroom management

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Classroom management doesn't matter to middle school kids when they know they have no consequences.

Quote:

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The absolute first measure should have been if you are private or home schooling that should exempt you from ISD taxes until the kids are 18+.

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Nope, that's a choice you made and you got what you paid for.

Ag13 said:

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I still don't understand how this is going to work for the families in lower income brackets who are relatively guaranteed to get selected to receive funds, but, they do not already have their kids enrolled/accepted into private school?

Many private schools (in Houston at least) are extremely competitive to get into, especially if you are applying after PK or Kindergarten. And getting in can create lots of logistical headaches if parents are used to sending their kids to the local public school (examples - no bus, expensive uniforms, paid lunches, etc) that may cause them to not accept a limited enrollment slot. Not to mention, the tuition may end up being more expensive than the fund amounts disbursed - this would be especially true for private high schools. But most confusingly for me, the funds are supposed to be disbursed on July 1st. Many schools are going to have enrollment deadlines well before that and some even make you pay the full amounts up front. My kids tuition is due in full on May 1st and it's my understanding that reimbursing yourself with TEFA funds is not allowed.

I think overall this program is a good step in the right direction, but it seems like there's a lot to be desired to actually provide "school choice" when the choice of a reputable private school may still be far out of reach for people. Solving the monetary shortfall does not solve all the other issues.

I also realize that money isn't unlimited, but when the majority of current private school parents are not going to see anything from this program and property taxes aren't going away either it doesn't feel like a well designed program.

I'm also wondering how they will work around/enforce the punishment of fraudulent schools that will be collecting TEFA funds from parents who couldn't get their kids into "real" private schools which is 100% about to happen Minneapolis style.

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It will fail but a lot of people are convinced we need to privatize school and magically everything will be better. It's really easy to just point at public schools and call them failures compared to private schools which exclude lower performing students.

Cynic said:

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Ag13 said:

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I still don't understand how this is going to work for the families in lower income brackets who are relatively guaranteed to get selected to receive funds, but, they do not already have their kids enrolled/accepted into private school?

Many private schools (in Houston at least) are extremely competitive to get into, especially if you are applying after PK or Kindergarten. And getting in can create lots of logistical headaches if parents are used to sending their kids to the local public school (examples - no bus, expensive uniforms, paid lunches, etc) that may cause them to not accept a limited enrollment slot. Not to mention, the tuition may end up being more expensive than the fund amounts disbursed - this would be especially true for private high schools. But most confusingly for me, the funds are supposed to be disbursed on July 1st. Many schools are going to have enrollment deadlines well before that and some even make you pay the full amounts up front. My kids tuition is due in full on May 1st and it's my understanding that reimbursing yourself with TEFA funds is not allowed.

I think overall this program is a good step in the right direction, but it seems like there's a lot to be desired to actually provide "school choice" when the choice of a reputable private school may still be far out of reach for people. Solving the monetary shortfall does not solve all the other issues.

I also realize that money isn't unlimited, but when the majority of current private school parents are not going to see anything from this program and property taxes aren't going away either it doesn't feel like a well designed program.

I'm also wondering how they will work around/enforce the punishment of fraudulent schools that will be collecting TEFA funds from parents who couldn't get their kids into "real" private schools which is 100% about to happen Minneapolis style.

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It will fail but a lot of people are convinced we need to privatize school and magically everything will be better. It's really easy to just point at public schools and call them failures compared to private schools which exclude lower performing students.

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We can agree vouchers suck but still understand that's just an excuse public schools give for poor performance.

Old Army Ghost said:

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TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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teachers want more pay and less work. They care only about themselves not our kids

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That's just stupid.

I'm pro voucher, but after seeing the jihadists in Florida start schools this may blow up on us

NCLB is one of the biggest loads of crap ever created. We have liberal Laura Bush for that albatross in the school system.

My small sampling says public school teachers' biggest complaint is lack of discipline in the classroom. Failure of a bloated administration to support teachers who discipline students.

The situation often has been cured by parental involvement in private school.

mode67ag said:

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My small sampling says public school teachers' biggest complaint is lack of discipline in the classroom. Failure of a bloated administration to support teachers who discipline students.

The situation often has been cured by parental involvement in private school.

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Yep. When parents actually parent, teachers can teach. About 5-10% of parents showed up for parent teacher conference. Less in HS.

These, of course, were the parents we didn't need to see.

Old Army Ghost said:

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TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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teachers want more pay and less work. They care only about themselves not our kids

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That's the teacher union bosses' message. Teachers themselves want:

-- admin support
-- discipline in classroom
-- enough time to complete their tasks without having to work all night and on weekends
-- parents to cooperate with them instead of a) blaming them for their child's inabilities and b) being told that the child is "their (meaning the teacher's) problem" during school hours

You aren't describing the teachers I know, and I'll bet money I know many more than you. If you were right, they'd all have resigned/retired now with all the **** they've had to endure since Covid.

91AggieLawyer said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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teachers want more pay and less work. They care only about themselves not our kids

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That's the teacher union bosses' message. Teachers themselves want:

-- admin support
-- discipline in classroom
-- enough time to complete their tasks without having to work all night and on weekends
-- parents to cooperate with them instead of a) blaming them for their child's inabilities and b) being told that the child is "their (meaning the teacher's) problem" during school hours

You aren't describing the teachers I know, and I'll bet money I know many more than you. If you were right, they'd all have resigned/retired now with all the **** they've had to endure since Covid.

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This. Yes, yes.

Logos Stick said:

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I don't think the public schools can compete effectively because of instrinsic barriers. They've built this machine that can't adapt even if it wanted to. I'm sure there are many teachers who experience the frustration of not being able to implement common sense changes because of idiocy like no child ieft behind. Public education is destined to lose and it's not the fault of those in the system.

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And, of course, the problem students will be left for the public schools to deal with.

if youre in dallas or houston, the state voucher will get you less than half of tuition at one of the good schools. there will indeed be new schools because of this.

flown-the-coop said:

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Queso1 said:

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Public school is about to get a lot worse.

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Are public schools socialist or capitalist?

Because if TrumpRx is socialism, then mandatory confiscation of wealth to fund public education regardless of whether you have a child in school or not feels a lot like socialism to me.

Let us know.

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We have one of the most socialized education systems in the world. Public funded, every person is zoned to a particular district and school, centrally defined standards and results measurement (i.e. production outputs). The only factor that is not purely socialist about it is that people have a choice to send their kids elsewhere. In a pure socialist model you go where the collective sees fit.

Once public schools are competing for "customers" and revenue, they will be forced to improve the areas that their customers care about, and the product will get better.

Charter schools, even public charter schools, follow a different model where their continued existence depends on performance. When they under perform, they risk being closed. When public schools under perform, they get more funding allocated to "fix" it.

You're barking up the wrong tree, brother. I'm not a fan of public schools…just another thing government fails at. And it is socialism.

Old Army Ghost said:

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zooguy96 said:

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Teachers having input! LOLOLOLOL.

Teachers have zero input most of the time. In one ear out the other.

Administrators and the central office, make all the decisions. And, most don't listen to the teachers.

I left teaching because I wasn't able to teach any longer. My principal was a limp dick, and wouldn't support me and disciplining students. The students knew there were no repercussions to their actions.

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lol you have to blame administration for your lack of classroom management

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On top of poor support from admin, at most low and average performing schools, students come to school not respecting authority. Why? Because their parents don't teach disciple their kid and if Johnny is written up by the teacher the parents threaten to take action against the teacher and school because their kid would never do that. How do you expect teachers to have great classroom management?

Back when I went to school, parent assumed their kids were guilty because the teacher had no reason to make it up and Johnny could be paddled in school followed by the real punishment when Dad got home. We feared teachers and rarely talked back or failed to listen. In those days, practically every teacher had great classroom management room control.

There are other serious problems with schools and I support vouchers and getting rid of bad teachers but the biggest problem starts at home.

ETA. Vouchers won't solve the problems for those students but at least it gives the kids raised right an opportunity to thrive and not be brought down by the future welfare recipients and jailed members of society.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Students mostly need engaged parents to be successful. Can't buy that.

As far as the hierarchy of education, I still fully believe nothing beats a quality public school. Then there's private school and below that poor public school.

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Agree 100%. Well run public schools in good communities smoke any other option for the vast majority of kids. It's really not close.