Over_ed said:

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Rocky Rider said:

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But will they? Or will all the good teachers go to private schools that want to focus on reading, writing, and arithmetic thus relegating public schools to 2nd or 3rd tier status.

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Off the top of my head:

The "advantage" of public education for a teacher -- pension?, chance to move into administration for bigger bucks, low expectations for performance, help the underserved.

Advantages of private school - better kids, much better work environment, greater chance to be successful in kids outcomes, personal safety.

I can see an attraction to both. But, yes, good teachers will leave if there are more private school openings.

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Just because mommy and daddy ponied up for junior to attend private school does not mean junior is a better or more engaged student...

dmart90 said:

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Over_ed said:

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Rocky Rider said:

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But will they? Or will all the good teachers go to private schools that want to focus on reading, writing, and arithmetic thus relegating public schools to 2nd or 3rd tier status.

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Off the top of my head:

The "advantage" of public education for a teacher -- pension?, chance to move into administration for bigger bucks, low expectations for performance, help the underserved.

Advantages of private school - better kids, much better work environment, greater chance to be successful in kids outcomes, personal safety.

I can see an attraction to both. But, yes, good teachers will leave if there are more private school openings.

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Just because mommy and daddy ponied up for junior to attend private school does not mean junior is a better or more engaged student...

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It usually means mommy and daddy are engaged and involved, some private schools require parents to dedicate time helping. Having parents engaged and involved usually means the kids do better. Exceptions certainly exist, but overall it is a better environment with more engaged students.

dmart90 said:

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Over_ed said:

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Rocky Rider said:

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But will they? Or will all the good teachers go to private schools that want to focus on reading, writing, and arithmetic thus relegating public schools to 2nd or 3rd tier status.

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Off the top of my head:

The "advantage" of public education for a teacher -- pension?, chance to move into administration for bigger bucks, low expectations for performance, help the underserved.

Advantages of private school - better kids, much better work environment, greater chance to be successful in kids outcomes, personal safety.

I can see an attraction to both. But, yes, good teachers will leave if there are more private school openings.

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Just because mommy and daddy ponied up for junior to attend private school does not mean junior is a better or more engaged student...

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Then junior can be kicked out and the classroom improves for the remaining students. The other parents won't stand for holding back progress for their kids because of some non engaged, disruptive kids. That doesn't happen in public schools.

Logos Stick said:

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dmart90 said:

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Over_ed said:

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Rocky Rider said:

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But will they? Or will all the good teachers go to private schools that want to focus on reading, writing, and arithmetic thus relegating public schools to 2nd or 3rd tier status.

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Off the top of my head:

The "advantage" of public education for a teacher -- pension?, chance to move into administration for bigger bucks, low expectations for performance, help the underserved.

Advantages of private school - better kids, much better work environment, greater chance to be successful in kids outcomes, personal safety.

I can see an attraction to both. But, yes, good teachers will leave if there are more private school openings.

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Just because mommy and daddy ponied up for junior to attend private school does not mean junior is a better or more engaged student...

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Then junior can be kicked out and the classroom improves for the remaining students. The other parents won't stand for holding back progress for their kids because of some non engaged, disruptive kids. That doesn't happen in public schools.

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Correct. This is because of rules an incentives created by government, not teachers or administrators. Most teachers and administrators in public schools would love to do that.

NCLB is one of many laws that has been a disaster

Queso1 said:

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Public school is about to get a lot worse.

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They suck on almost every level currently. A paradigm shift can only help them.

Rocky Rider said:

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But will they? Or will all the good teachers go to private schools that want to focus on reading, writing, and arithmetic thus relegating public schools to 2nd or 3rd tier status.

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Some might, but most won't mess with their pension.

F16 loves the "48 hour rule", so I'll look back on this topic in two years. After reading the rules, the first bunch of applicants seems to be the original targeted recipients, but let's see what happens.

Voucher rules

• If it's profitable, new schools will pop up - hopefully not "Learing Centers"
• I want to see if any hard core Islamic schools pass inspection ……or some other off the wall ones, for that matter
• Let's see if there is room available at better schools
• The ball is in parent's court, and some can't spell "ball". 42,000 is a good start
• Still sucks to live in BFE with bad schools

TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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This is and will always be a parent issue, not a teacher or school issue…if as a parent you don't invest time in your child's education, then you are failing your child…sure there are some bad teachers/administrators.

Squadron7 said:

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The kids have all the power in the schools now. And they know it.

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This. Having worked in public education the last 3 years I can tell you it's the kids and the parents running the show. Public Education is also so dominated by women they put in policies of compassion that, while well intended, have been a disaster to kids.

Silent For Too Long said:

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I disagree. They will be forced to adapt.

If they want to keep good students, maybe they should go back to kicking out the bad ones

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What difference does it make to public employees whether they get great students or not. There is no motivation for adapting and competing. That's why we got here.

Public schools are going to take a sharper decline due to it. Private school costs will balloon as the voucher program simply means they can charge more. It won't lead to more affordable private school.

TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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The teachers have said many times "Let us fail kids who need to be failed", and "Get disruptive kids out of my classroom". It's not the "right" keeping those kids in class or the wrong class.

B-1 83 said:

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TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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The teachers have said many times "Let us fail kids who need to be failed", and "Get disruptive kids out of my classroom". It's not the "right" keeping those kids in class or the wrong class.

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These are two very good points!

B-1 83 said:

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TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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The teachers have said many times "Let us fail kids who need to be failed", and "Get disruptive kids out of my classroom". It's not the "right" keeping those kids in class or the wrong class.

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That's not really true. A lot of the laws and incentives in place that keep kids in class that shouldn't be there were passed by Republicans. There is plenty of blame both ways.

Of the 42,000, how many were already sending their kids to private schools?

agsalaska said:

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Of the 42,000, how many were already sending their kids to private schools?

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It's probably a lot. I'm one. Everyone I've asked is doing the same.

GAC06 said:

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Think about it when your social security is deposited

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non-sequitur!

agsalaska said:

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B-1 83 said:

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TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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The teachers have said many times "Let us fail kids who need to be failed", and "Get disruptive kids out of my classroom". It's not the "right" keeping those kids in class or the wrong class.

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That's not really true. A lot of the laws and incentives in place that keep kids in class that shouldn't be there were passed by Republicans. There is plenty of blame both ways.

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No child left ahead was one of the worst things for public schools. It forced schools to teach to tests and the lowest students while ignoring the best students. This is another example of why the federal government should have zero involvement in education.

agsalaska said:

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B-1 83 said:

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TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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The teachers have said many times "Let us fail kids who need to be failed", and "Get disruptive kids out of my classroom". It's not the "right" keeping those kids in class or the wrong class.

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That's not really true. A lot of the laws and incentives in place that keep kids in class that shouldn't be there were passed by Republicans. There is plenty of blame both ways.

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EXACTLY. We've got some here saying NCLB caused a lot of this… need I remind people which "side" pushed NCLB? Y'all want to play political football with every little thing. Fine. Let's play. But take some darn accountability instead of the right can do no wrong approach.

Core math is frig'n stupid as hell also.

Private schools have many of the same issues as public schools. If a kid is looking for drugs, bad stuff, etc. The difference is the scale is much smaller and private schools act on it and suspend and expel kids. Remove the bad actors.

NCLB is an issue. The feds special ed laws is even worse. The government has made it worse not better. Many don't have the stomach to do what is necessary to fix things.

Here's an idea:

Bring back vocational school for those not good with a pencil. I took small engine repair, woodworking, home ec

B-1 83 said:

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TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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The teachers have said many times "Let us fail kids who need to be failed", and "Get disruptive kids out of my classroom". It's not the "right" keeping those kids in class or the wrong class.

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Furthermore, all those teachers blaming the administrators are missing the point. Those teachers voted for union leadership (and allowed it to stay in place) that did not focus on the things they claim they care about like discipline in the classroom. Instead, they focused on how underpaid they were to work 9 months out of the year (oh the overtime!) and how much they cared about kids. If teachers really cared, they would hav elected union leadership that focused lobbying dollars on fixing the big bad administrators.

Teachers can never admit their focus on themselves has been a big part of the problem. Accountability is a good thing. Too bad teachers didn't know how to provide that.

We should but then morons will say we are putting kids on tracks. Well duh not everyone needs to go to college. The hug a thug individuals will never allow this or admit not everyone can be college educated

Old Army Ghost said:

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TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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teachers want more pay and less work. They care only about themselves not our kids

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Lol God forbid they ask for more pay when Texas is 42nd out of 50 in Teacher pay.

There is also a belief that they should be certified. The number of hoops they created is unreal. Now things may have changed but I don't think it has

They are paid what other social service people are paid if you put them on year around. Right now they are 187 day contracts unless that changed

t_J_e_C_x said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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teachers want more pay and less work. They care only about themselves not our kids

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Lol God forbid they ask for more pay when Texas is 42nd out of 50 in Teacher pay.

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Do you mind sharing where this statistic comes from?

Pinochet said:

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B-1 83 said:

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TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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The teachers have said many times "Let us fail kids who need to be failed", and "Get disruptive kids out of my classroom". It's not the "right" keeping those kids in class or the wrong class.

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Furthermore, all those teachers blaming the administrators are missing the point. Those teachers voted for union leadership (and allowed it to stay in place) that did not focus on the things they claim they care about like discipline in the classroom. Instead, they focused on how underpaid they were to work 9 months out of the year (oh the overtime!) and how much they cared about kids. If teachers really cared, they would hav elected union leadership that focused lobbying dollars on fixing the big bad administrators.

Teachers can never admit their focus on themselves has been a big part of the problem. Accountability is a good thing. Too bad teachers didn't know how to provide that.

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Texas doesn't really have teacher unions like you are speaking of, and when a teacher fails a kid (along with a couple of other teachers) at the end of the year only to see him promoted the next year, yeah, it's the administrators. A high failure rate reflects on them.

The logic twisting is amazing. In Texas - Complaint: Teachers just want to be paid more. Solution: give bonus incentives to teachers that have the more successful students. Complaint: teachers are just pushing through students like a diploma mill. Duh. It's not liberals who implemented the solution to "bad" students being to tie incentives to pushing through students.

And many others aren't making those complaints.

Edited don't want a ban

TA-OP said:

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agsalaska said:

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B-1 83 said:

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TA-OP said:

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Heaven forbid the right ask the teachers what they need to be successful. Daddy government knows best in these parts, though.

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The teachers have said many times "Let us fail kids who need to be failed", and "Get disruptive kids out of my classroom". It's not the "right" keeping those kids in class or the wrong class.

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That's not really true. A lot of the laws and incentives in place that keep kids in class that shouldn't be there were passed by Republicans. There is plenty of blame both ways.

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EXACTLY. We've got some here saying NCLB caused a lot of this… need I remind people which "side" pushed NCLB? Y'all want to play political football with every little thing. Fine. Let's play. But take some darn accountability instead of the right can do no wrong approach.

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Yep.

Can't fix these issues if we just sit here and blame th other side while taking no accountability for our side's mistakes.

Sounds like you do not get a tax break in any way? You get funding from the TEFA prog and with the applicant count prioity is based on income and disability?

If so, this program sucks and will be 75%+ fraud funding

Kids are already in private school

Praying this isn't a disaster for private schools