Political fallout and arguments regarding the US-Israeli action against Iran 022824

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Eliminatus
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In reply to flown-the-coop • 6:06p, 6/17/26
AG
flown-the-coop said:
ballistic missile program.

He explained if people have missiles aimed at them they are entitled to some defense. Hell, even Japan was allowed this after WWII.

I don't particularly like the concept given their behavior and threats. But its not irrational.

I will also admit its not unconditional surrender and Trump will have cleanup on that.

No, they weren't. Their entire military in all aspects was disbanded and scrapped. Our aim was to completely destroy not only the armed might of Japan, but the militaristic culture of the nation itself. Something we more or less succeeded at btw.

The only reason the JSDF was created in the mid 50's was because of the burgeoning Cold War and our inability to adequately defend Japan itself, which was part of the agreement of their surrender.

There is zero reason to allow Iran it's continued BM program. Zero. You don't allow the lunatic who keeps shooting up the neighborhood his long rifle back in the name of "self-sefense". Come on, man.
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japantiger
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In reply to Queso1 • 6:14p, 6/17/26
S
Queso1 said:
I don't believe the objection to the Obama cash was that it was taxpayer money. I believe the money was Iranian money that was seized. The issue was giving a rogue regime $2 billion. Now they getting $300 billion. I'm sure none of it will go to terrorism. And yes I understand that it may be earmarked for certain things, but if they have money for certain things, they have discretionary money for terrorism etc. see Hamas


They get nothing if they don't comply.
If they comply, they get to make business cases for investments to the Gulf neighbors. It's not cash. It infrastructure build.
We have veto power.
We either bomb them forever or try to being them into the community of nations.
If they want bombing, that's what they'll get. That's probably bad for them...
See all the other points on what has fundamentally changed in the region.
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DeschutesAg
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In reply to bobbranco • 6:17p, 6/17/26
bobbranco said:
The defeatists are singing incoherently about orange man bad. First a land invasion was never going to happen. A faction of the defeatists should get over that wet dream.

And another faction of defeatists were angry that Trump dropped bombs in unison with Israel.

If Iran missteps again, will the defeatists cry when Iran gets bombed? Yes they will. It will be glorious.
Your post is talking in circles. What did you want the USA to do?
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japantiger
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In reply to Eliminatus • 6:19p, 6/17/26
S
Eliminatus said:
japantiger said:
Captain Winky said:
I thought we hated Nobama for giving Iran a single dime. Now we are ok with Trump giving them $300B?

Trump is giving them $0.00. That is a lazy response. They can work with Gulf nations to rebuild infrastructure, if they abide by terms. The US has veto power on investment decisions....

We are allowing for a terrorist regime to be enriched on our watch. Period. We can't even maintain proper oversight on our own projects staffed with our own people on our own soil. You think it is going to be a squeaky clean operation with ME nations dealing with Iran??

They're terror proxies are no more. If they try to reconstitute it, they get nothing
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aggiedent
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In reply to japantiger • 6:26p, 6/17/26
AG
japantiger said:
Eliminatus said:
japantiger said:
Captain Winky said:
I thought we hated Nobama for giving Iran a single dime. Now we are ok with Trump giving them $300B?

Trump is giving them $0.00. That is a lazy response. They can work with Gulf nations to rebuild infrastructure, if they abide by terms. The US has veto power on investment decisions....

We are allowing for a terrorist regime to be enriched on our watch. Period. We can't even maintain proper oversight on our own projects staffed with our own people on our own soil. You think it is going to be a squeaky clean operation with ME nations dealing with Iran??

They're terror proxies are no more. If they try to reconstitute it, they get nothing


No more? What fantasy world are you living in?
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bobbranco
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In reply to DeschutesAg • 6:27p, 6/17/26
AG
DeschutesAg said:
bobbranco said:
The defeatists are singing incoherently about orange man bad. First a land invasion was never going to happen. A faction of the defeatists should get over that wet dream.

And another faction of defeatists were angry that Trump dropped bombs in unison with Israel.

If Iran missteps again, will the defeatists cry when Iran gets bombed? Yes they will. It will be glorious.

Your post is talking in circles. What did you want the USA to do?


Its a commentary about the whining defeatists. Do you understand?

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Geminiv
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In reply to aggiedent • 6:30p, 6/17/26
aggiedent said:
japantiger said:
Eliminatus said:
japantiger said:
Captain Winky said:
I thought we hated Nobama for giving Iran a single dime. Now we are ok with Trump giving them $300B?

Trump is giving them $0.00. That is a lazy response. They can work with Gulf nations to rebuild infrastructure, if they abide by terms. The US has veto power on investment decisions....

We are allowing for a terrorist regime to be enriched on our watch. Period. We can't even maintain proper oversight on our own projects staffed with our own people on our own soil. You think it is going to be a squeaky clean operation with ME nations dealing with Iran??

They're terror proxies are no more. If they try to reconstitute it, they get nothing


No more? What fantasy world are you living in?


Trump world
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Geminiv
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In reply to FWTXAg • 6:33p, 6/17/26
FWTXAg said:
japantiger said:
Iran's ability to keep the Mideast in turmoil has ended. Proxies are no longer relevant. Iranian military was shown to be incompetent and has largely been reduced to irrelevance. Mideast states no longer afraid to attack and alienate Iran. Mideast nations all align with Israel. No Nuke program. If Iran decides to join the community of nations, they can access everything any other nation has access to.

If they don't, they get nothing...well, they get bombed again and we'll close the strait again.

I don't understand the hand ringing here. I have no issue with us having to bomb rogue states every few years to keep them aligned. If that is what we had done in Afghanistan after Tora Bora instead of invading, then we wouldn't have wasted countless lives and nearly 20 years.

Iran can't do anything to us or it's neighbors now. That's a pretty good deal.


There aren't many of you true beleivers left brother. I respect the dedication although I feel deep sympathy for it! Keep fighitng the fight.


I dont think thats a real person
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Queso1
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6:38p, 6/17/26
AG
I'm lost now. We have conservatives that know we were pressured into this war, that we should have never started it, and that this is a laughable deal. We have conservatives that supported the war but also support this deal. We have conservatives who supported the war but are appalled at the deal because it hurts us and Israel.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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6:41p, 6/17/26
Now that the details are out I definitely agree with a lot of the negative commentary about this agreement and agree that all republicans (except apparently the anti-Israel iran apologists) would be skewering Obama or Biden if they were pushing it. It seems like we gave up a ton despite being in the supposed position of power here and Trump's inability to communicate without rambling nonsensically isn't helping.

At the same time, I also think that it may have been the best we could do to try and avoid an economic crisis leading into the midterms, and that should be the real priority over the next few months. Initially, they saw an opportunity to decapitate a country that is easily the #1 destabilizer and terror sponsor in the region and one that was in a consistent race to get a nuke, which can't happen. It didn't 100% work out the way they wanted but that doesn't invalidate their initial goals. In the future, if Iran's leadership steps out of line again we have shown we can take them out easily. And if the other countries in the region are serious about building new ways around the SOH then Iran loses its only leverage point.
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AGHouston11
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6:56p, 6/17/26
AG
If you wrote a movie based off of what Trump has said from the beginning of this to now and just handed the script to someone they would say it's completely incoherent!

Today with his comments saying he likes them and they need to have missiles referring to Iran it's just insane.

What's even more crazy are the comments that have been made to defend Trump during this journey and where things are left now. All the while he has constantly moved the goal posts in every direction!

We have heard Trump is the only president to ever have the courage to finally end Iran's regime that has been plaguing the world since Jimmy Carter.

To now with Trump saying I like them, they are smart, here is access to 300 plus billion, and you should have some missiles!


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Ervin Burrell
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In reply to HTownAg98 • 7:02p, 6/17/26
AG
HTownAg98 said:

He's right you know.


Ted Cruz is a woke, deep state Marxist who hates America. How f'ing DARE he criticize Glorious Leader.
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waitwhat?
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In reply to Ervin Burrell • 7:05p, 6/17/26
Ervin Burrell said:
HTownAg98 said:

He's right you know.


Ted Cruz is a woke, deep state Marxist who hates America.

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bobbranco
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In reply to Queso1 • 7:07p, 6/17/26
AG
Queso1 said:
I'm lost now. We have conservatives that know we were pressured into this war, that we should have never started it, and that this is a laughable deal. We have conservatives that supported the war but also support this deal. We have conservatives who supported the war but are appalled at the deal because it hurts us and Israel.


Into what bucket do you shove the anti-Semites?
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Queso1
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In reply to bobbranco • 7:27p, 6/17/26
AG
bobbranco said:
Queso1 said:
I'm lost now. We have conservatives that know we were pressured into this war, that we should have never started it, and that this is a laughable deal. We have conservatives that supported the war but also support this deal. We have conservatives who supported the war but are appalled at the deal because it hurts us and Israel.


Into what bucket do you shove the anti-Semites?


Based on this board's classification, I guess it would be anyone other than the last type. If we learned anything, it was that everything other than undying commitment to the state of Israel is antisemitic.
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K2-HMFIC
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7:33p, 6/17/26
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Old McDonald
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In reply to DeschutesAg • 7:37p, 6/17/26
DeschutesAg said:
bobbranco said:
The defeatists are singing incoherently about orange man bad. First a land invasion was never going to happen. A faction of the defeatists should get over that wet dream.

And another faction of defeatists were angry that Trump dropped bombs in unison with Israel.

If Iran missteps again, will the defeatists cry when Iran gets bombed? Yes they will. It will be glorious.
Your post is talking in circles. What did you want the USA to do?
i think he just wants everyone to stop making fun of trump for his failures in iran, it's tough to see your idols dunked on by your former ideological allies
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Ervin Burrell
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In reply to bobbranco • 7:40p, 6/17/26
AG
bobbranco said:
Queso1 said:
I'm lost now. We have conservatives that know we were pressured into this war, that we should have never started it, and that this is a laughable deal. We have conservatives that supported the war but also support this deal. We have conservatives who supported the war but are appalled at the deal because it hurts us and Israel.


Into what bucket do you shove the anti-Semites?


Per you and many others in this board, it's anyone who doesn't fly an Israel flag in their yard.
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No Spin Ag
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 7:44p, 6/17/26
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Now that the details are out I definitely agree with a lot of the negative commentary about this agreement and agree that all republicans (except apparently the anti-Israel iran apologists) would be skewering Obama or Biden if they were pushing it. It seems like we gave up a ton despite being in the supposed position of power here and Trump's inability to communicate without rambling nonsensically isn't helping.

At the same time, I also think that it may have been the best we could do to try and avoid an economic crisis leading into the midterms, and that should be the real priority over the next few months. Initially, they saw an opportunity to decapitate a country that is easily the #1 destabilizer and terror sponsor in the region and one that was in a consistent race to get a nuke, which can't happen. It didn't 100% work out the way they wanted but that doesn't invalidate their initial goals. In the future, if Iran's leadership steps out of line again we have shown we can take them out easily. And if the other countries in the region are serious about building new ways around the SOH then Iran loses its only leverage point.


In the future, doesn't Iran just have to wait two and a half years until Trump is out of office to stop having to worry about Trump going all John McCain "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran " on them?
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
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K2-HMFIC
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7:44p, 6/17/26


"The Treaty of Versailles Part II"

Appropriate we signed our surrender here…
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DeschutesAg
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In reply to bobbranco • 7:46p, 6/17/26
Which of your defeatist categories is Trump in?

Rubio?
JD Vance?
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bobbranco
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7:58p, 6/17/26
AG
Words have meanings.

defeatist
one who concedes defeat too readily

A defeatist is someone who believes in or exhibits a mindset characterized by the acceptance of defeat without struggle, often expecting failure and lacking confidence in overcoming challenges. This attitude can lead to a lack of motivation and missed opportunities.
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bobbranco
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In reply to K2-HMFIC • 8:00p, 6/17/26
AG
K2-HMFIC said:
Appropriate we signed our surrender here…


This is pure delusion.
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Queso1
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In reply to bobbranco • 8:08p, 6/17/26
AG
bobbranco said:
K2-HMFIC said:
Appropriate we signed our surrender here…


This is pure delusion.


You may not like it, but it's not delusion. The US is a laughing stock right now…or at least Trump is. Unfortunately, China was watching. We should have never entered this nonsense.
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AGHouston11
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In reply to bobbranco • 8:11p, 6/17/26
AG
bobbranco said:
K2-HMFIC said:
Appropriate we signed our surrender here…


This is pure delusion.


If we measure success by what Trump said would happen to now then it's not a delusion.
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Old McDonald
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In reply to bobbranco • 8:12p, 6/17/26
bobbranco said:
Old McDonald said:
bobbranco said:
Old McDonald said:
bobbranco said:
K2-HMFIC said:
bobbranco said:
K2-HMFIC said:
zoneag said:
mjschiller said:
Regardless of any agreement, Iran's current regime must be eliminated for anything to work.

New regime can not include Iman's and military (ITGC).


Well we kinda just tried that, and it didn't work. Short of a massive invasion or dropping nukes, we're not getting rid of the regime, they're dug in too deep. Which is what plenty of people were saying would happen before launching this ill advised war.



Pete's hubris.


The Pete hate is obvious.



The dude cheerleaded this war into existence when everyone else in the cabinet wasn't a fan.



I missed those reliable NY Times opinion pieces.

i know you're trolling but pete literally wrote a book about his desire for america to wage a holy war against islam and iran. he's been preaching the gospel of maximal confrontation with them for as long as he's been politically relevant.

how tragic for him that he finally got his wish and he spectacularly fumbled it. it's almost as if the people were right about him being unfit for the job.


Not trolling. The NY Times pushes journalistic opinion pieces and people believe them.

I hope Pete continues strengthening our military and returning the warrior spirit. It won't be easy ridding our military of the anti-American malcontents, poltroons, opportunists, and deviants.

maybe if he'd spent half as much of his brainpower on actual wars as he does frivolous and inconsequential culture wars, he wouldn't have dragged us into this mess. maybe.


Is this the latest nonsensical opinion for the growing absurd leftist screed?
Yes, it probably is one of many. No one is not shocked by leftist propaganda. And please continue championing those Bud Light moments.

But, Pete made the decision to invade Iraq? Right?

>renames it to the department of war
>renames himself the secretary of war
>starts one war
>loses

all in a day's work for patron pete
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Ervin Burrell
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In reply to Old McDonald • 8:15p, 6/17/26
AG
Old McDonald said:
bobbranco said:
Old McDonald said:
bobbranco said:
Old McDonald said:
bobbranco said:
K2-HMFIC said:
bobbranco said:
K2-HMFIC said:
zoneag said:
mjschiller said:
Regardless of any agreement, Iran's current regime must be eliminated for anything to work.

New regime can not include Iman's and military (ITGC).


Well we kinda just tried that, and it didn't work. Short of a massive invasion or dropping nukes, we're not getting rid of the regime, they're dug in too deep. Which is what plenty of people were saying would happen before launching this ill advised war.



Pete's hubris.


The Pete hate is obvious.



The dude cheerleaded this war into existence when everyone else in the cabinet wasn't a fan.



I missed those reliable NY Times opinion pieces.

i know you're trolling but pete literally wrote a book about his desire for america to wage a holy war against islam and iran. he's been preaching the gospel of maximal confrontation with them for as long as he's been politically relevant.

how tragic for him that he finally got his wish and he spectacularly fumbled it. it's almost as if the people were right about him being unfit for the job.


Not trolling. The NY Times pushes journalistic opinion pieces and people believe them.

I hope Pete continues strengthening our military and returning the warrior spirit. It won't be easy ridding our military of the anti-American malcontents, poltroons, opportunists, and deviants.

maybe if he'd spent half as much of his brainpower on actual wars as he does frivolous and inconsequential culture wars, he wouldn't have dragged us into this mess. maybe.


Is this the latest nonsensical opinion for the growing absurd leftist screed?
Yes, it probably is one of many. No one is not shocked by leftist propaganda. And please continue championing those Bud Light moments.

But, Pete made the decision to invade Iraq? Right?

>renames it to the department of war
>renames himself the secretary of war
>starts one war
>loses

all in a day's work for patron pete


Maybe he can drown his sorrows by getting sh/tfaced and cheating on a third wife, while claiming to be super Christian.
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YouBet
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In reply to No Spin Ag • 8:17p, 6/17/26
AG
No Spin Ag said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Now that the details are out I definitely agree with a lot of the negative commentary about this agreement and agree that all republicans (except apparently the anti-Israel iran apologists) would be skewering Obama or Biden if they were pushing it. It seems like we gave up a ton despite being in the supposed position of power here and Trump's inability to communicate without rambling nonsensically isn't helping.

At the same time, I also think that it may have been the best we could do to try and avoid an economic crisis leading into the midterms, and that should be the real priority over the next few months. Initially, they saw an opportunity to decapitate a country that is easily the #1 destabilizer and terror sponsor in the region and one that was in a consistent race to get a nuke, which can't happen. It didn't 100% work out the way they wanted but that doesn't invalidate their initial goals. In the future, if Iran's leadership steps out of line again we have shown we can take them out easily. And if the other countries in the region are serious about building new ways around the SOH then Iran loses its only leverage point.


In the future, doesn't Iran just have to wait two and a half years until Trump is out of office to stop having to worry about Trump going all John McCain "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran " on them?


That's everybody's strategy in dealing with us regardless of Trump. Same strategy that the Dems use against their own country.

We are ruled by 4 year EO's at this point.
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bobbranco
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8:30p, 6/17/26
AG
The delusional trolling is unnecessary.
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DeschutesAg
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In reply to YouBet • 8:32p, 6/17/26
YouBet said:
No Spin Ag said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Now that the details are out I definitely agree with a lot of the negative commentary about this agreement and agree that all republicans (except apparently the anti-Israel iran apologists) would be skewering Obama or Biden if they were pushing it. It seems like we gave up a ton despite being in the supposed position of power here and Trump's inability to communicate without rambling nonsensically isn't helping.

At the same time, I also think that it may have been the best we could do to try and avoid an economic crisis leading into the midterms, and that should be the real priority over the next few months. Initially, they saw an opportunity to decapitate a country that is easily the #1 destabilizer and terror sponsor in the region and one that was in a consistent race to get a nuke, which can't happen. It didn't 100% work out the way they wanted but that doesn't invalidate their initial goals. In the future, if Iran's leadership steps out of line again we have shown we can take them out easily. And if the other countries in the region are serious about building new ways around the SOH then Iran loses its only leverage point.


In the future, doesn't Iran just have to wait two and a half years until Trump is out of office to stop having to worry about Trump going all John McCain "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran " on them?


That's everybody's strategy in dealing with us regardless of Trump. Same strategy that the Dems use against their own country.

We are ruled by 4 year EO's at this point.
Just the opposite. Obama continued the war in Afghanistan and he saw the Iraq War through to its end. Biden fulfilled the agreement Trump signed to end the US war in Afghanistan.

It is Trump who has unilaterally pulled out of numerous treaties and agreements prior US Presidents made.
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YouBet
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In reply to DeschutesAg • 8:42p, 6/17/26
AG
DeschutesAg said:
YouBet said:
No Spin Ag said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Now that the details are out I definitely agree with a lot of the negative commentary about this agreement and agree that all republicans (except apparently the anti-Israel iran apologists) would be skewering Obama or Biden if they were pushing it. It seems like we gave up a ton despite being in the supposed position of power here and Trump's inability to communicate without rambling nonsensically isn't helping.

At the same time, I also think that it may have been the best we could do to try and avoid an economic crisis leading into the midterms, and that should be the real priority over the next few months. Initially, they saw an opportunity to decapitate a country that is easily the #1 destabilizer and terror sponsor in the region and one that was in a consistent race to get a nuke, which can't happen. It didn't 100% work out the way they wanted but that doesn't invalidate their initial goals. In the future, if Iran's leadership steps out of line again we have shown we can take them out easily. And if the other countries in the region are serious about building new ways around the SOH then Iran loses its only leverage point.


In the future, doesn't Iran just have to wait two and a half years until Trump is out of office to stop having to worry about Trump going all John McCain "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran " on them?


That's everybody's strategy in dealing with us regardless of Trump. Same strategy that the Dems use against their own country.

We are ruled by 4 year EO's at this point.
Just the opposite. Obama continued the war in Afghanistan and he saw the Iraq War through to its end. Biden fulfilled the agreement Trump signed to end the US war in Afghanistan.

It is Trump who has unilaterally pulled out of numerous treaties and agreements prior US Presidents made.


And Biden did such a bang up job of that, didn't he? I respect that he left, but he **** the bed while doing it. His own party and media was aghast at that for about two weeks until the next thing took over.

Which treaties and agreements? There are a host of them I'm damn glad we left because they are b.s. Notably, all climate change agreements should be ripped up and set on fire.
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Old McDonald
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In reply to bobbranco • 8:43p, 6/17/26
bobbranco said:
The delusional trolling is unnecessary.
your passive aggressive meta-commentary whining is more trolling than anything else in this thread today
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AGHouston11
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In reply to bobbranco • 8:45p, 6/17/26
AG
bobbranco said:
The delusional trolling is unnecessary.


?
Just reading the posts again. You are the one that posted "this is pure delusion". The posts following were in response to that and were not directed at anyone personally.
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Ervin Burrell
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In reply to bobbranco • 8:46p, 6/17/26
AG
bobbranco said:
The delusional trolling is unnecessary.


Maybe you're confusing trolling with the hard truth. Sorry your God Emperor bungled this thing.
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bobbranco
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In reply to Old McDonald • 8:51p, 6/17/26
AG
Old McDonald said:
bobbranco said:
The delusional trolling is unnecessary.

your passive aggressive meta-commentary whining is more trolling than anything else in this thread today

I will leave the superfluous leftist commentary to you and others.
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