Political fallout and arguments regarding the US-Israeli action against Iran 022824

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Keyno
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In reply to Queso1 • 9:00p, 6/17/26
Queso1 said:
bobbranco said:
K2-HMFIC said:
Appropriate we signed our surrender here…


This is pure delusion.


You may not like it, but it's not delusion. The US is a laughing stock right now…or at least Trump is. Unfortunately, China was watching. We should have never entered this nonsense.

This is why myself and many others (and every former President) were against this adventure from the very beginning. There was no outcome which wouldn't have been catastrophic for the US- whether strategically, financially, or in lives lost.
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Old McDonald
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In reply to bobbranco • 9:01p, 6/17/26
if criticizing trump and co. for bungling iran makes one a leftist, then f16 is a majority leftist board now. we did it!
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UntoldSpirit
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9:04p, 6/17/26
AG
There were a lot of conservatives that said months ago that Trump just needs to declare victory and go home.

That's essentially what he's doing. The US/Israel have weakened Iran, buried their Uranium, killed a lot of bad guys and scientists, and made it easy to bomb them to oblivion if it were absolutely necessary.

So now he's trying to wrap it up, but I don't hear those same people saying "Good Trump".

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Old McDonald
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In reply to Keyno • 9:10p, 6/17/26
Keyno said:
Queso1 said:
bobbranco said:
K2-HMFIC said:
Appropriate we signed our surrender here…


This is pure delusion.


You may not like it, but it's not delusion. The US is a laughing stock right now…or at least Trump is. Unfortunately, China was watching. We should have never entered this nonsense.

This is why myself and many others (and every former President) were against this adventure from the very beginning. There was no outcome which wouldn't have been catastrophic for the US- whether strategically, financially, or in lives lost.
israel has likely tried to coerce several of our past administrations into something like this. it's just that this time around they found in trump someone arrogant enough to think they would succeed where his predecessors dared not tread, dumb enough to believe what they told him, and surrounded by patsies who lacked the intelligence to recognize it was a bad idea or the stones to tell him so.
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samurai_science
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In reply to UntoldSpirit • 9:16p, 6/17/26
UntoldSpirit said:
There were a lot of conservatives that said months ago that Trump just needs to declare victory and go home.

That's essentially what he's doing. The US/Israel have weakened Iran, buried their Uranium, killed a lot of bad guys and scientists, and made it easy to bomb them to oblivion if it were absolutely necessary.

So now he's trying to wrap it up, but I don't hear those same people saying "Good Trump".



So what happens in 60 days if there is no 300 billion?
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Dorm 15
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9:24p, 6/17/26
AG
I believe the mistake that many of us make is the assumption that modern western civilization style of governance is best for everyone. Given the opportunity all "peoples" will embrace the concept. I want to agree with the concept but the reality seems elusive. We tried in Afghanistan with no success and Iraq seems to be a mixed bag. I applaud our attempt.
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Serious Lee
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9:43p, 6/17/26
'Old Mcdonald' being the voice of reason now sure is something ain't it? MAGA is on its last breath
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JustAGuy100
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9:57p, 6/17/26
By my estimation, the gains are eliminating multiple layers of Iranian leadership, destroying their missile stockpile, depleting attack drones, eliminating navy, and gaining a real world understanding of SoH.

The agreement isn't worth the paper it's written on. Israel is free to keep doing what they do. We're not going to stop them. We might publicly say some BS about Israel but still support whatever they need. Also, at any point, there's nothing stopping us from restarting military operations. I suspect when they try to rebuild missile/drone stockpile or attempt to recover nuclear material, bombs away.

I would prefer to keep the frozen assets but not sure how that works.
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BMX Bandit
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9:59p, 6/17/26
Quote:
gaining a real world understanding of SoH.


What was the misunderstanding previously?
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Dave Robicheaux
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10:05p, 6/17/26
AG
What was so hard about keeping the blockade, Starting operation freedoms and continuing operation economic fury?

It seems Trump is giving unneeded leverage away,
Unless he truly believes the calculations of low oil reserves starting in August.
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JustAGuy100
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 10:05p, 6/17/26
If there was any doubt in how drones/missiles/mines would be deployed to disrupt traffic and how the US could/would respond, that doubt has been removed.
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Keyno
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In reply to BMX Bandit • 10:06p, 6/17/26
BMX Bandit said:
Quote:
gaining a real world understanding of SoH.


What was the misunderstanding previously?

That it would remain open if the US attacked Iran
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Dave Robicheaux
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In reply to samurai_science • 10:11p, 6/17/26
AG
samurai_science said:
UntoldSpirit said:
There were a lot of conservatives that said months ago that Trump just needs to declare victory and go home.

That's essentially what he's doing. The US/Israel have weakened Iran, buried their Uranium, killed a lot of bad guys and scientists, and made it easy to bomb them to oblivion if it were absolutely necessary.

So now he's trying to wrap it up, but I don't hear those same people saying "Good Trump".



So what happens in 60 days if there is no 300 billion?



From my understanding the 300 is not available until
A" final deal" is agreed upon.
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mjschiller
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10:15p, 6/17/26
AG
The memorandum, agreement, means nothing to Iran's current regime, IRGC. This agreement was put together by Pakistan an ally of Iran. Iran has never keep an agreement, treaty. They lie.

Trump has been threatening Iran for over 3 1/2 months. Words, no action. Talk is cheap.

Israel has every right to protect themselves from Hezbollah in Lebanon.
Marvin J. Schiller
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YouBet
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In reply to Keyno • 10:28p, 6/17/26
AG
Keyno said:
Queso1 said:
bobbranco said:
K2-HMFIC said:
Appropriate we signed our surrender here…


This is pure delusion.


You may not like it, but it's not delusion. The US is a laughing stock right now…or at least Trump is. Unfortunately, China was watching. We should have never entered this nonsense.

This is why myself and many others (and every former President) were against this adventure from the very beginning. There was no outcome which wouldn't have been catastrophic for the US- whether strategically, financially, or in lives lost.


Catastrophic? Really? You think this was a catastrophic outcome?

There is so much hyperbole on here. Damn.
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YouBet
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In reply to Serious Lee • 10:29p, 6/17/26
AG
Serious Lee said:
'Old Mcdonald' being the voice of reasonnow sure is something ain't it? MAGA is on its last breath


More hyperbole.
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Old McDonald
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In reply to JustAGuy100 • 10:40p, 6/17/26
JustAGuy100 said:
By my estimation, the gains are eliminating multiple layers of Iranian leadership, destroying their missile stockpile, depleting attack drones, eliminating navy, and gaining a real world understanding of SoH.
this was a gain for iran, not us. their ability to close the strait is now a proven asymmetric lever they can wield against the rest of the world whenever they want, and even the most powerful military on earth demonstrated it was largely powerless to stop them.

worse still, we engineered the opportunity for them to test and prove it. there's no undoing that now.
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oysterbayAG
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10:41p, 6/17/26
AG
Watching Trump's news conference today impressed me as a quite good example for Robert Wright's book : "Non Zero " The Logic Of Human Destiny. Life is not a zero sum game, and Trump knows it !
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samurai_science
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In reply to Dave Robicheaux • 10:46p, 6/17/26
Dave Robicheaux said:
samurai_science said:
UntoldSpirit said:
There were a lot of conservatives that said months ago that Trump just needs to declare victory and go home.

That's essentially what he's doing. The US/Israel have weakened Iran, buried their Uranium, killed a lot of bad guys and scientists, and made it easy to bomb them to oblivion if it were absolutely necessary.

So now he's trying to wrap it up, but I don't hear those same people saying "Good Trump".



So what happens in 60 days if there is no 300 billion?



From my understanding the 300 is not available until
A" final deal" is agreed upon.

There better be no 300billion
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samurai_science
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In reply to Serious Lee • 10:46p, 6/17/26
Serious Lee said:
'Old Mcdonald' being the voice of reason now sure is something ain't it? MAGA is on its last breath

Define MAGA
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flown-the-coop
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In reply to oysterbayAG • 10:49p, 6/17/26
AG
Animals, particular feral, are zero sum beings. For someone to win, the other loses.

Interesting observation of a non-zero sum approach. It's the correct one, though Elon take it a bit far.

Reminds me of war games, where the only winning move is to not play. Thats defeatist.

The correct answer is the only way to lose is to not play.

Another concept I have pondered on particularly with Trump. People convulse and wretch because he doesn't admit when he's wrong. Narcissist arrogant and such.

But ask yourself, is it better to admit mistakes or to learn from them?

So ends Deep Thoughts by ftc and THC. Keep calm and MAGA on.
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PaulsBunions
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In reply to samurai_science • 10:50p, 6/17/26
AG
samurai_science said:
Serious Lee said:
'Old Mcdonald' being the voice of reason now sure is something ain't it? MAGA is on its last breath

Define MAGA


MAGA is a former coalition of the right that Trump broke up by breaking his campaign promises.
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flown-the-coop
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In reply to PaulsBunions • 10:51p, 6/17/26
AG
PaulsBunions said:
samurai_science said:
Serious Lee said:
'Old Mcdonald' being the voice of reason now sure is something ain't it? MAGA is on its last breath

Define MAGA


MAGA is a former coalition of the right that Trump broke up by breaking his campaign promises.

I thought it was Make America Great Again.

What do you call the part that fractured out of MAGA?

I have some suggestions but would rather hear your thoughts.
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Keyno
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In reply to YouBet • 10:59p, 6/17/26
YouBet said:
Keyno said:
Queso1 said:
bobbranco said:
K2-HMFIC said:
Appropriate we signed our surrender here…


This is pure delusion.


You may not like it, but it's not delusion. The US is a laughing stock right now…or at least Trump is. Unfortunately, China was watching. We should have never entered this nonsense.

This is why myself and many others (and every former President) were against this adventure from the very beginning. There was no outcome which wouldn't have been catastrophic for the US- whether strategically, financially, or in lives lost.


Catastrophic? Really? You think this was a catastrophic outcome?

There is so much hyperbole on here. Damn.

Strategically, yes.
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bigtruckguy3500
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11:08p, 6/17/26
Apparently Trump said we were 4 weeks from running out of petroleum reserves. I'm assuming he meant "we" as in the world, not the US. Though I believe the US reserves are at the lowest level in 20 years, I think we still have plenty, relatively speaking.

I suspect that might have played a big part in him giving up on the blockade when he did.
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YouBet
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In reply to bigtruckguy3500 • 11:12p, 6/17/26
AG
bigtruckguy3500 said:
Apparently Trump said we were 4 weeks from running out of petroleum reserves. I'm assuming he meant "we" as in the world, not the US. Though I believe the US reserves are at the lowest level in 20 years, I think we still have plenty, relatively speaking.

I suspect that might have played a big part in him giving up on the blockade when he did.


Similar numbers have been reported elsewhere. He flat out said today he didn't want his legacy to be economic destruction.

In other words, he ran out of time and was not able to get this done before the real economic chaos ensued so he threw in the towel.
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bigtruckguy3500
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In reply to YouBet • 11:35p, 6/17/26
YouBet said:
bigtruckguy3500 said:
Apparently Trump said we were 4 weeks from running out of petroleum reserves. I'm assuming he meant "we" as in the world, not the US. Though I believe the US reserves are at the lowest level in 20 years, I think we still have plenty, relatively speaking.

I suspect that might have played a big part in him giving up on the blockade when he did.


Similar numbers have been reported elsewhere. He flat out said today he didn't want his legacy to be economic destruction.

In other words, he ran out of time and was not able to get this done before the real economic chaos ensued so he threw in the towel.

Makes sense. Though I have a suspicion a lot of damage has been done. I don't know if we'll hit a recession, but I do think we will see a lot of economic stagnation, especially since I don't think gas will come down to prewar levels for many months (at best)
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samurai_science
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In reply to PaulsBunions • 11:43p, 6/17/26
PaulsBunions said:
samurai_science said:
Serious Lee said:
'Old Mcdonald' being the voice of reason now sure is something ain't it? MAGA is on its last breath

Define MAGA


MAGA is a former coalition of the right that Trump broke up by breaking his campaign promises.

It means nothing.

Is a woman who votes R all the time but doesnt like Turmp MAGA? She voted for him...
What about a person who votes R but likes some of the things he does but not all. He voted for him


Calling someone MAGA is dumb. Everyone should be for Making America Great Again
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Keyno
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In reply to samurai_science • 12:24a, 6/18/26
samurai_science said:
PaulsBunions said:
samurai_science said:
Serious Lee said:
'Old Mcdonald' being the voice of reason now sure is something ain't it? MAGA is on its last breath

Define MAGA


MAGA is a former coalition of the right that Trump broke up by breaking his campaign promises.

It means nothing.

Is a woman who votes R all the time but doesnt like Turmp MAGA? She voted for him...
What about a person who votes R but likes some of the things he does but not all. He voted for him


Calling someone MAGA is dumb. Everyone should be for Making America Great Again

In 2016 it was support for a distinct and compelling vision for the country laid out by Trump which violated many GOP/Democrat consensus positions at the time

In 2024 it became blind support for literally anything Trump did (even when the things were the opposite of his 2016 positions)

Not sure what it is now

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nortex97
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5:22a, 6/18/26
AG
A bit long but a pretty hilarious JP Sears skit on the war/peace deal. NSFW language a bit but hopefully some folks can laugh as I did.

Reminds me of some of the circles that have been discussed here.
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Kozmozag
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7:05a, 6/18/26
Iran leadership finally felt some pain for their actions. Killing ayatolla 1 and wounding ayatolla 2 and a bunch of other leaders will lwave a mark.
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revvie
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In reply to nortex97 • 7:14a, 6/18/26
AG
The only thing missing from the MOU is a newTrump Golf Resort-Tehran
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No Spin Ag
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In reply to nortex97 • 7:35a, 6/18/26
nortex97 said:
A bit long but a pretty hilarious JP Sears skit on the war/peace deal. NSFW language a bit but hopefully some folks can laugh as I did.

Reminds me of some of the circles that have been discussed here.


Can we guess which guy is the conservative and which guy is the ultra maga?

That was greatness! Lol!
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
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AGHouston11
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In reply to nortex97 • 7:45a, 6/18/26
AG
nortex97 said:
A bit long but a pretty hilarious JP Sears skit on the war/peace deal. NSFW language a bit but hopefully some folks can laugh as I did.

Reminds me of some of the circles that have been discussed here.



That pretty much summarizes it! The only thing it left out was the US taxpayers being told that the high prices that have been paying were a worthy sacrifice.

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Old McDonald
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In reply to Serious Lee • 7:46a, 6/18/26
Serious Lee said:
'Old Mcdonald' being the voice of reason now sure is something ain't it? MAGA is on its last breath
i'm not suddenly the voice of reason, i've just been stating the obvious about this war and trump in general from the beginning. it was inevitable that people here would start to agree.
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