infinity ag said:

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No.
I think the server should negotiate a fair wage

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They're already getting a fair wage. It ain't rocket surgery to write down an order, take it to the kitchen, bring the food to the table and make sure drinks don't run empty. That's why it's frequently done by high school students.

If a high school student can do your job, it was never a job meant to provide a living.

Sysco distributes food. They don't make it.

Buc-ee's, for instance, uses Sysco to distribute much of the food that Buc-ee's themselves produce.

Common misconception

Slicer97 said:

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infinity ag said:

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No.
I think the server should negotiate a fair wage

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They're already getting a fair wage. It ain't rocket surgery to write down an order, take it to the kitchen, bring the food to the table and make sure drinks don't run empty. That's why it's frequently done by high school students.

If a high school student can do your job, it was never a job meant to provide a living.

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I respect the profession and am a very generous tipper...but on the flip side, I might be ok with 20-to-life in prison for anyone who refuses to write an order down and gets it wrong.

Logos Stick said:

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infinity ag said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Im Gipper said:

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Quote:

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My take:
Tips are inherently socialist. Not capitalistic.

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Stop reading at this hilariously bad take. Sorry!!!

I get the problem people have with "tipping culture" in America, but voluntarily giving someone money is not remotely "socialism."

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OP clearly just wants more money to go directly to the CEOs and not to the workers.

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I want the CEO to pay the workers a fair wage. Not skimp and cheat/screw customers into paying their employees.

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Now THAT is a principle of socialism! A non-socialist like myself would allow the market to decide.

You would be paying for their employees anyway because the CEO would raise prices to cover the servers salary!

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Of course they would! And I'm just fine with that. Because paying employees is the business's responsibility, not the customers'. How the hell is that "socialist"?

And if tipping is so great, why do only waiters get tips? Why don't we have restaurants with CVS-long receipts with lines to write in tips for the waiter, cook, dishwasher, janitor, and the guy who uploads the delivery truck? Maybe even extend it outside the restaurant to the farmers, ranchers, butchers, and winemakers who produce the stuff for your meal. A good steak might be $13.99 on the menu, but you'd be expected to tip at least 300% total. Why should "performance incentives" apply only to directly customer-facing workers?

infinity ag said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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Taking a job where your 95% of your pay is based upon having good interactions with your customers and making sure they get their meals on time is completely merit based and 100% capitalistic.

Pay for performance.

In Europe they get paid whether they ignore you or not. Whether they hear your speaking english and decide not to come to your table for 30 minutes. They willfully ignore some table because of their politics, racism, feelings, etc. That's communism.

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So as customer, I decide if I am impressed with the "performance" or not. There is no "15% standard", now 25%.
That means I can just skip the tip without people getting hissy about it. But that does not happen, does it.

All I am on the hook for paying is the food charge and tax. Nothing more. My employer doesn't tip me everyday for doing sheet that I am supposed to do. Then why should I pay a server anything?

This is pure socialism, but folks cannot admit that they are part socialists too. It is okay, it will take time.

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idiocy can't be fixed. and so i move on.

Because only the customer facing employees can be properly evaluated by....the customer?

Doh. Worked Telecom after college, edited.

BonfireNerd04 said:

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And if tipping is so great, why do only waiters get tips? Why don't we have restaurants with CVS-long receipts with lines to write in tips for the waiter, cook, dishwasher, janitor, and the guy who uploads the delivery truck? Maybe even extend it outside the restaurant to the farmers, ranchers, butchers, and winemakers who produce the stuff for your meal. A good steak might be $13.99 on the menu, but you'd be expected to tip at least 300% total. Why should "performance incentives" apply only to directly customer-facing workers?

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To answer your question, because it's logical and common sense.

It's pretty much only reserved for people in the service industry who serve you personally. A janitor is not shining your shoes for you. He is paid a fixed rate to clean a building. We don't include tips for overhead. It is literally just a few roles in society that rely almost exclusively on tips, because society determined that that made the most sense.

If they got paid more than $2-3/hour, I might agree with tipping much less. But imo, tips are why America is known for exceptional service at restaurants and bars.

I always tip the nice Vietnamese gentleman who owns and operates the local donut shop down the road. I tend to pull up in my Maserati, so I need to let him know that the rich folks such as myself care about the poor. I leave my pit bull in the car; he's a good boy, (remember, it's the owner, not the breed) but I don't bring him inside because he experiences too much social stigma.

I like the boudain filled kolaches and the apricot klobasneks. New Braunsfels is a fabulous place to live.

WestAustinAg said:

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infinity ag said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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Taking a job where your 95% of your pay is based upon having good interactions with your customers and making sure they get their meals on time is completely merit based and 100% capitalistic.

Pay for performance.

In Europe they get paid whether they ignore you or not. Whether they hear your speaking english and decide not to come to your table for 30 minutes. They willfully ignore some table because of their politics, racism, feelings, etc. That's communism.

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So as customer, I decide if I am impressed with the "performance" or not. There is no "15% standard", now 25%.
That means I can just skip the tip without people getting hissy about it. But that does not happen, does it.

All I am on the hook for paying is the food charge and tax. Nothing more. My employer doesn't tip me everyday for doing sheet that I am supposed to do. Then why should I pay a server anything?

This is pure socialism, but folks cannot admit that they are part socialists too. It is okay, it will take time.

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idiocy can't be fixed. and so i move on.

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Most people can't admit their own hypocrisy, let alone idiocy.

Jack Ruby said:

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I always tip the nice Vietnamese gentleman who owns and operates the local donut shop down the road. I tend to pull up in my Maserati, so I need to let him know that the rich folks such as myself care about the poor. I leave my pit bull in the car; he's a good boy, (remember, it's the owner, not the breed) but I don't bring him inside because he experiences too much social stigma.

I like the boudain filled kolaches and the apricot klobasneks. New Braunsfels is a fabulous place to live.

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Yep, but to be honest, even if I wasn't extremely effing rich, I would still tip the Viets at our donut shop handsomly. Vietnamese people are great...a perfect match for the American South imo.

Most countries around the world don't tip.

Next thread

BonfireNerd04 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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infinity ag said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Im Gipper said:

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Quote:

---

My take:
Tips are inherently socialist. Not capitalistic.

---

Stop reading at this hilariously bad take. Sorry!!!

I get the problem people have with "tipping culture" in America, but voluntarily giving someone money is not remotely "socialism."

---

OP clearly just wants more money to go directly to the CEOs and not to the workers.

---

I want the CEO to pay the workers a fair wage. Not skimp and cheat/screw customers into paying their employees.

---

Now THAT is a principle of socialism! A non-socialist like myself would allow the market to decide.

You would be paying for their employees anyway because the CEO would raise prices to cover the servers salary!

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Of course they would! And I'm just fine with that. Because paying employees is the business's responsibility, not the customers'. How the hell is that "socialist"?

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You're paying the employees one way or another. Either the meal costs $15 and you're paying a tip on top of that to offset what the server is making on an hourly basis, or tipping goes away and now that meal costs $20 because the restaurant has to make up the difference to keep employees. Personally the idea of paying the servers directly is a much better option to me. Have been to Europe a few times and in general the food service sucks. It's only partially because of no tipping (culturally they're also just never in a hurry to do anything) but that's definitely a factor in comparison.

PDEMDHC said:

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Most countries around the world don't tip.

Next thread

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And they have horrible service and rude servers and there is ZERO urgency for them to wait on you or serve your food or bring the check.

Yall would be begging to go back to tipping, trust me.

Why am I not surprised that the OP is a bad tipper.

AgFan1974 said:

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Owners do not have to pay minumum wage in alot of places. You must address that.

And, I don't think most people have an issue tipping a good waiter (in this country anyway).

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Wrong. Tipped employees are required by law to receive minimum wage. If employees do not receive enough in tips, the owner must cover the difference. This is why employers do not like cash since it is easier for employees to not report the tips.

Tipped employees often make way more than minimum wage but are guaranteed minimum wage by law.

I hunt Africa. While tipping in general isn't common there it is for hunting largely due to the American influence of hunters. The Euros that hunt there don't tip or complain about it. Who do you think gets the best guides and service

That said. I generally hate tipping but I do tip almost always.

BonfireNerd04 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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infinity ag said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

Im Gipper said:

---

Quote:

---

My take:
Tips are inherently socialist. Not capitalistic.

---

Stop reading at this hilariously bad take. Sorry!!!

I get the problem people have with "tipping culture" in America, but voluntarily giving someone money is not remotely "socialism."

---

OP clearly just wants more money to go directly to the CEOs and not to the workers.

---

I want the CEO to pay the workers a fair wage. Not skimp and cheat/screw customers into paying their employees.

---

Now THAT is a principle of socialism! A non-socialist like myself would allow the market to decide.

You would be paying for their employees anyway because the CEO would raise prices to cover the servers salary!

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Of course they would! And I'm just fine with that. Because paying employees is the business's responsibility, not the customers'. How the hell is that "socialist"?

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The BOLDED part of his quote is socialist.

ywia

BonfireNerd04 said:

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A good steak might be $13.99 on the menu,

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Dude, it's 2026, not 1983.

Hardcore Greg said:

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I respect the profession and am a very generous tipper...but on the flip side, I might be ok with 20-to-life in prison for anyone who refuses to write an order down and gets it wrong.

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I normally tip well also, but any waiter/waitress that does that get's "Write it down next time" written on the receipts tip space.

A comparable dinner out in CA vs TX is about 14% more. One major reason is CA forces restaurants to pay full minimum wage of $16.50 an hour.

Slicer97 said:

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Hardcore Greg said:

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I respect the profession and am a very generous tipper...but on the flip side, I might be ok with 20-to-life in prison for anyone who refuses to write an order down and gets it wrong.

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I normally tip well also, but any waiter/waitress that does that get's "Write it down next time" written on the receipts tip space.

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It takes a lot to rattle me in person, but when the waiter starts taking orders "in their head" and then it gets to my wife or mother, who always have at least a few modifications, I get deeply agitated and just want to leave the table.

No one is impressed later on if you got their order right after not writing it down. People will damn sure remember if you didn't jot it down and you F their order up. There is only potential downside. To me, it's laziness.

Obviously, some places have a very simple menu and this does not apply.

Slicer97 said:

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BonfireNerd04 said:

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A good steak might be $13.99 on the menu,

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Dude, it's 2026, not 1983.

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You can't even get a hamburger steak for $13.99 these days.

Logos Stick said:

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Slicer97 said:

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BonfireNerd04 said:

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A good steak might be $13.99 on the menu,

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Dude, it's 2026, not 1983.

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P Terry's $5 double cheeseburger. Combo still costs as much as anywhere else but the burger itself is cheap

You can't even get a hamburger steak for $13.99 these days.

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BonfireNerd04 said:

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And if tipping is so great, why do only waiters get tips? Why don't we have restaurants with CVS-long receipts with lines to write in tips for the waiter, cook, dishwasher, janitor, and the guy who uploads the delivery truck? Maybe even extend it outside the restaurant to the farmers, ranchers, butchers, and winemakers who produce the stuff for your meal. A good steak might be $13.99 on the menu, but you'd be expected to tip at least 300% total. Why should "performance incentives" apply only to directly customer-facing workers?

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Many restaurants do have systems in place for this very thing, but you have to understand who the customer is for each position.

Those bus boys, cooks, & dishwashers don't work for the diners. They work for the waiters.

I worked at 3 different restaurants over my college years. Some had a system where we "tipped out" our bus boys, cooks, and dishwashers... some didnt.

Tipping out is when the waiters tipped the support staff at the end of the night based on how hard they worked and took care of the waiters. If they were lazy or had an attitude, they made jack squat. If they busted their ass, were enjoyable to work with, and/or went above & beyond the call of duty to help the waiter take care of their customers, they made bank.

I was a bus boy the last few months of college after working as a waiter for years. I made more money as a bus boy after all the tips-outs because I knew how to take care of the waiters (and their customers), so they took care of me. We all made money together, and the customers had a better experience.

I think this could work in most industries. And we'd all be better for it.

Roman-style or Neapolitan-style pizza?

It does.

The customer pays the business, the business pays the employees.

Umm… in Europe and most of the rest of the world, there don't tip.

OverSeas AG said:

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Umm… in Europe and most of the rest of the world, there don't tip.

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Because the employer pays the employee a lot more than we do here. So the tip that we include for good service is already priced into the cost of the meal. So those waiters don't GAS about providing service at all much less good service.

Why would they? Has always been the problem with socialism/communism. Zero human incentives to do jobs with best efforts because the pay is the same. Promotion has zero to do with performance.

Vegas Strip bartenders are the same way.

MouthBQ98 said:

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Tipping is very much American. In most of the rest of the world, it is more factored into your cost or bill. They have a different wage structure that accounts for no tipping.

Just dal with it. Not everyone is going to understand how America does this snd it is only a few weeks.

I'm not sure how tipping is socialist in any way. Good or exemplary service, big tip. Poor service is no tip or mockery amount tip. That seems like competition to me.

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I tip way too socialistically. Too much for mediocre service. Not enough for good service.

And way too much for bad service.

Part of what gets lost here is that the service industry isn't completely tied to the business.

Working for tips should be working for yourself, connecting patrons to businesses.

Sticking with restaurants:
A person can get up and get their own food, but since they're not eating at home, they probably have a reason they don't want to. Could be to have more time with company, or they want to relax, or they're just lazy…

They can place their own order with the cook, but without a mediator who knows the lingo, that just introduces more stress for everyone and wastes time.

The goal is to separate the price of the supplies (the meal, dishes, utilities, etc.) and the price of the service. The price of the meal is set by the supplier. The price of the service is set by the quality.

Government keeps interfering.

Hardcore Greg said:

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PDEMDHC said:

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Most countries around the world don't tip.

Next thread

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And they have horrible service and rude servers and there is ZERO urgency for them to wait on you or serve your food or bring the check.

Yall would be begging to go back to tipping, trust me.

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Been a lot of places. I get pretty similar service and not 20% extra. They are still being evaluated by a boss, just like the cook.

OverSeas AG said:

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Umm… in Europe and most of the rest of the world, there don't tip.

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Guam?