Bobby Jimbo said:

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IrishAg said:

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10 CHIEFS - MAHOMES (they sunk their battleship)

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Before this draft, I thought the Texans were going to have to "settle" for Mahomes. A lot of people, myself included, were shocked when the Chiefs traded up to get him, especially considering they already had Alex Smith. I thought there was no way that a Tech QB could translate to a good NFL QB. I was ecstatic when the Texans were able to get Watson since I for sure thought he would be a better NFL QB. Chiefs will forever be regarded as geniuses for that draft trade/pick.

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Agree completely, though the same thing. Didn't understand the Chiefs trading up for Mahomes or even the Bills trading up to take an overrate prospect the next year. So just shows how a good coaching and scouting staff is critical to wins in the NFL.

It's also one of the reasons I agree with others about Anthony Richardson. The talk track is exactly the same, just heard Kiper talking about he is completely boom or bust guy. There are headlines going into the draft in 2018 "Josh Allen is the ultimate boom-or-bust NFL draft prospect". It's crazy how similar they are, and it really makes me want us to get Philly's OC and draft Richardson.



I mean here is an example scouting report for Josh Allen:
POSITIVES

• Allen's arm strength ranks as the best some scouts have ever seen.
• He can easily hit deep comebacks on a line with tight velocity and has the power to push the ball vertically. He can stretch the field to lengths most quarterbacks cannot.
• Allen has the ability to thread the ball into tight windows and can make "wow" throws that leave you shaking your head.
• As an athlete, he uses his 6'5", 237-pound frame well and can run over or around defenders.
• On the move, Allen can make throws without having to reset his feet and is able to still throw with power while rolling left or right.
• He has played in a pro-style offense and worked under center at Wyoming.

NEGATIVES

• Allen's film shows poor decisions and errant passes where the ball gets away from him.
• His subpar completion percentage (56 percent) can be attributed to poor decisions, passes thrown too hard, drops and plain misses.
• When Allen misses, he tends to miss big and often throws high on crossing routes.
• His footwork needs to be refined so that he's stepping into throws and aligning his lower body with his shouldersan issue a lot of "arm" throwers have.
• He leaves a clean pocket too often (not trusting his offensive line) and will extend plays instead of throwing the ball away, which can lead to lost yards.

And here is one for Anthony Richardson:
POSITIVES

• Impressive athlete, loose-limbed and flexible. Richardson has the speed to pick up yardage in scramble situations.
• He's an athletic freak - in fact, he made Bruce Feldman's Freaks List at number 50 -- " Richardson is a chiseled 6-4, 238 pounds with just 10 percent body fat and says he has run a 4.4 40 and can throw a football 75 yards. Football insiders eye-balling college quarterbacks at this summer's Manning Passing Academy were wowed by Richardson's physical tools, saying he and Kentucky's Will Levis were well above and beyond every other quarterback there. Richardson cleans 325 pounds and squatted 500 this offseason."
• Elite as a runner - able to break tackles like a full-back - he's built like a linebacker, but with the speed of a wideout
• He moves effectively and can throw on the run. He's at his best on bootlegs, showing zip and accuracy on those throws.
• His height is an asset scanning the field, and Richardson is a much better mover than a typical tall quarterback.
• May have one of the strongest arms in the class - there is no pass he can't make
• He has a quick release and a live arm, delivering tight spirals, and he shows good touch at the intermediate levels

NEGATIVES

• Has struggled with his decision-making and needs to improve his pre-snap recognition skills to read defenses and see blitzes. Doesn't decipher information as quickly as you would like, but does see the entire field and understands coverage.
• His mechanics are hit-or-miss as Richardson struggles to remain consistent. His stride is inconsistent, leading to sporadic accuracy.
• Although he does have a quick release he still often hangs on to the ball too long leading to sacks
• Richardson has a bad habit of fading and throwing off his back foot when the pocket gets muddled, and he is too often all arm when throwing on the move, sacrificing accuracy.

Richardson is the most intriguing QB prospect to me for all the reasons laid out. I think if he stayed another season he'd have a great shot at going no 1 in the 2024 draft. I think he could be drafted high or late in the first round because he could be a lottery ticket in the right situation. Honestly I wouldn't be shocked to see him get drafted as high as Atlanta at 8. They won't be able to dump Matt Ryan's contract, he's going to be on the roster, Richardson could learn something from him and be put on the field in situational plays so that he's not the full time QB but he gets out there and plays when needed because he's the anti-Matt Ryan. I could also see him being drafted by Carolina, Tennessee, Detroit, Tampa, Washington, Seattle, or Minnesota. I'd include the Jets on that list but I think they are going to try and trade for Rodgers. I don't think he's a QB that fits for McDaniels so I think LV is out but I can see teams trying to get in front of Atlanta or Carolina to get him, there's a good chance he doesn't make it out of the top 10 because the potential upside is too big to ignore.

He also might be a reason teams would be hyping Levis, creating an opportunity to get a guy like Richardson.

maca1028 said:

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Ag_07 said:

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W said:

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he's just been cashing checks for a long, long time

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It was cringeworthy.

Lopez and the other dude were dumbfounded and were basically laughing in his face.

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I'll never understand why he keeps getting airtime.

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Because he has a good following of a bunch of older listeners. View him as entertainment and not an "insider" and you'll like him much more.

Max Power said:

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Richardson is the most intriguing QB prospect to me for all the reasons laid out. I think if he stayed another season he'd have a great shot at going no 1 in the 2024 draft. I think he could be drafted high or late in the first round because he could be a lottery ticket in the right situation. Honestly I wouldn't be shocked to see him get drafted as high as Atlanta at 8. They won't be able to dump Matt Ryan's contract, he's going to be on the roster, Richardson could learn something from him and be put on the field in situational plays so that he's not the full time QB but he gets out there and plays when needed because he's the anti-Matt Ryan. I could also see him being drafted by Carolina, Tennessee, Detroit, Tampa, Washington, Seattle, or Minnesota. I'd include the Jets on that list but I think they are going to try and trade for Rodgers. I don't think he's a QB that fits for McDaniels so I think LV is out but I can see teams trying to get in front of Atlanta or Carolina to get him, there's a good chance he doesn't make it out of the top 10 because the potential upside is too big to ignore.

He also might be a reason teams would be hyping Levis, creating an opportunity to get a guy like Richardson.

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I think you're getting confused on Atlanta, they already dumped Matt Ryan to Indy in a trade last year. Then they signed Mariota and drafted Ridder in the 3rd round. I could see them going after another QB, but probably not a project after taking Ridder last year.

IrishAg said:

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W said:

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regarding Levis...all it takes is one.

hard to believe the Bears took Trubisky at #2 overall and the Browns took Baker at #1

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Don't forget the Jets taking Sam Darnold #3 in that same Josh Allen draft with Baker.

The 2017 draft is crazy because the top 10 looked like this

1. Browns - Myles Garret (Hit)
2. Bears - Trubisky (not even on the board miss)
3. 49ers - Solomon Thomas (bad miss)
4. Jax - Fournette (I would put miss, since he did nothing for Jax)
5. Ten - Corey Davis (WR) (yeah, putting this as a miss)
6. NYJ - Jamal Adams (hit, but a weak one since they couldn't resign him)
7. SD - MIke Williams (hit? I guess, since he is a starter, but I could call it a miss)
8. Car - Christian McCaffrey (hit?, same as Fournette, but at least they got to trade him?)
9. Cin - John Ross (WR) (not even on the board miss again)
10 CHIEFS - MAHOMES (they sunk their battleship)

Wow, just wow

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how lucky were the Bengals to get a do-over 3 years later with Burrow.

that draft shows the curse of the NFL...being content or stuck with a good QB (a la Andy Dalton)...but not a great QB. And thus missing out on the next generational quarterback(s). Teams are so afraid to attempt to upgrade at the QB position

Quote:

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I think you're getting confused on Atlanta, they already dumped Matt Ryan to Indy in a trade last year. Then they signed Mariota and drafted Ridder in the 3rd round. I could see them going after another QB, but probably not a project after taking Ridder last year.

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I organized my statement poorly on that one. I meant to reference Indy as having Ryan on the roster regardless of taking Richardson as high as 4 and bookend that with Atlanta at 8 for not being set long term at the position.

While I do think it's unlikely that Atlanta takes him, since the Cardinals took Kyler at No 1 after taking Rosen in the first round the year before I don't think any team is necessarily going to stick with a QB if they aren't dead set on them as being their future if there's a possible upgrade available. Mariota isn't going to be their long term QB. They might like Ridder, but if they think their future is potentially better with Richardson they aren't going to stick with a 3rd round QB. It's the same reason I wouldn't put it past Tennessee to draft him. Willis was just a rookie but as a 3rd round pick their future might be better having Richardson on the roster than Willis. Might be crazy but there's a possibility that all 3 AFC south teams that aren't Jacksonville draft QB's in the first round. Houston, Indy, and Tennessee.

Also, look at the NFC south QB situation as a whole, in two years Anthony Richardson could potentially be the best QB in that division if he develops.

Atlanta: Mariota, Ridder, Logan Woodside
Carolina: Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold are UFA, Matt Corral, PJ Walker
New Orleans: Jameis Winston, Andy Dalton, Taysom Hill
Tampa: Brady probably isn't coming back, Blaine Gabbert and Kyle Trask.

Unless Carolina wants to have a go with Derek Carr or Jimmy G they have to be considering a QB at 9. None of those QBs will be available for TB at 19. New Orleans has no first round pick this year.

I do think that who the teams covet will come down to the coach as much as anything. Houston, Indy, and Carolina all need to hire coaches first. I could see some coaches not wanting to have anything to do with specific prospects.

I think it's coming down to Ryans, Steichen, and Gannon in Houston. Steichen would have a good idea on his own but Ryans and Gannon are defensive coaches, their OC hires will play into that I'm sure.

W said:

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IrishAg said:

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W said:

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regarding Levis...all it takes is one.

hard to believe the Bears took Trubisky at #2 overall and the Browns took Baker at #1

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Don't forget the Jets taking Sam Darnold #3 in that same Josh Allen draft with Baker.

The 2017 draft is crazy because the top 10 looked like this

1. Browns - Myles Garret (Hit)
2. Bears - Trubisky (not even on the board miss)
3. 49ers - Solomon Thomas (bad miss)
4. Jax - Fournette (I would put miss, since he did nothing for Jax)
5. Ten - Corey Davis (WR) (yeah, putting this as a miss)
6. NYJ - Jamal Adams (hit, but a weak one since they couldn't resign him)
7. SD - MIke Williams (hit? I guess, since he is a starter, but I could call it a miss)
8. Car - Christian McCaffrey (hit?, same as Fournette, but at least they got to trade him?)
9. Cin - John Ross (WR) (not even on the board miss again)
10 CHIEFS - MAHOMES (they sunk their battleship)

Wow, just wow

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how lucky were the Bengals to get a do-over 3 years later with Burrow.

that draft shows the curse of the NFL...being content or stuck with a good QB (a la Andy Dalton)...but not a great QB. And thus missing out on the next generational quarterback(s). Teams are so afraid to attempt to upgrade at the QB position

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No lie, Bengals are a good example of how you can finally get it right, but that you have to both hit in the draft and get the correct coach. How many people questioned Zach Taylor as a head coach, and he now has the most post season wins as a coach in Bengals history.

Max Power said:

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Quote:

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I think you're getting confused on Atlanta, they already dumped Matt Ryan to Indy in a trade last year. Then they signed Mariota and drafted Ridder in the 3rd round. I could see them going after another QB, but probably not a project after taking Ridder last year.

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I organized my statement poorly on that one. I meant to reference Indy as having Ryan on the roster regardless of taking Richardson as high as 4 and bookend that with Atlanta at 8 for not being set long term at the position.

While I do think it's unlikely that Atlanta takes him, since the Cardinals took Kyler at No 1 after taking Rosen in the first round the year before I don't think any team is necessarily going to stick with a QB if they aren't dead set on them as being their future if there's a possible upgrade available. Mariota isn't going to be their long term QB. They might like Ridder, but if they think their future is potentially better with Richardson they aren't going to stick with a 3rd round QB. It's the same reason I wouldn't put it past Tennessee to draft him. Willis was just a rookie but as a 3rd round pick their future might be better having Richardson on the roster than Willis. Might be crazy but there's a possibility that all 3 AFC south teams that aren't Jacksonville draft QB's in the first round. Houston, Indy, and Tennessee.

Also, look at the NFC south QB situation as a whole, in two years Anthony Richardson could potentially be the best QB in that division if he develops.

Atlanta: Mariota, Ridder, Logan Woodside
Carolina: Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold are UFA, Matt Corral, PJ Walker
New Orleans: Jameis Winston, Andy Dalton, Taysom Hill
Tampa: Brady probably isn't coming back, Blaine Gabbert and Kyle Trask.

Unless Carolina wants to have a go with Derek Carr or Jimmy G they have to be considering a QB at 9. None of those QBs will be available for TB at 19. New Orleans has no first round pick this year.

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No worries, and they're all good points.

In this draft I think the varied types of QBs available is going to kill the trade market for the bears. Without a sure fire #1 I don't think anyone is going to give up the capital to move to the top pick. As you point out, it's a big shoulder shrug for most teams in the top 10 on what they need in a QB, so most might just see who falls to them. Outside of the top 10, I don't think there is anyone who would think one of the 4 would be worth that much draft capital to trade up.

I don't want Levis, but I don't doubt that there's some teams that like him. NFL is so much different than college. In college, a guy may start 2-3 year at most. They don't have as much practice time on a day to day basis as well. So college coaches are more restricted in how they can tailor a scheme to the talent because it's not feasible with the roster turnover year to year.

In the NFL, they can plan on having a guy 4-5 years at least, and even 10-15 in the case of QBs. No recruiting and no school either, so they can build a scheme from the ground up around a new QB. The more elite traits (size, athleticism, arm strength) a QB has, the more flexibility coaches have in building that scheme.

Josh Allen enables basically unlimited options with the scheme. Designed runs, deep passes, tight windows across the field, etc.

Richardson and, to some extent Levis also have that same "upside." The questions are whether they can absorb the scheme and how talented is the coach building the scheme. Richardson's lack of experience is a big risk though. One year starters don't have a good track record.

That's why I think there probably are teams interested in Levis. Elite players in the NFL typically have elite physical traits (shocking, I know), and Levis has that with maybe less risk than Richardson. Stroud might have made himself a lot of money in the Georgia game though. Young is just going to be hard to predict because he's very good, but what about his game is really going to stress NFL defenses?

Pretty much, it's also why mock drafts are going to be pointless until we get a coach in here.....


Not that it will stop me from doing them

Panthers hire Frank Reich as their new head coach --- gotta be think QB at pick #9

https://www.oddschecker.com/us/insight/football/nfl/20230126-houston-texans-next-head-coach-odds-jonathan-gannon-strong-favorite-to-get-the-job

Interesting, odds have had Gannon clearly out front for a while, but DeMeco has almost closed the gap in the last few days.

Between this and random chatter everywhere I'm guessing we're deciding between the two and we'll know which one come Monday depending on who wins and if we move quickly on a 2nd interview.

See, told you guys it wouldn't stop me. OK, again, I didn't force anything here this was all what the calculator would allow with teams that wanted to trade with me. So, with that said, is the calculator absolutely crazy that it allowed me to trade the #2 pick for the #8, #44, and Atlanta's 1st rounder in 2024 and 2025? They drafted Young with the pick.

Only did 5 rounds, but wow, that would be a fun draft night (even though it would never happen) lol

Quote:

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Gannon is the current favorite at +175, or an implied 36.4% chance to land the job. Ryans is behind him at +200, or an implied 33.3% chance. Things have tightened in recent days, on January 12th, Gannon was +150 and Ryans +300, so while Gannon remains the favorite, momentum is clearly with the 49ers' Defensive Coordinator.

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Looks like they're neck and neck, fingers crossed it's Ryans but Gannon's defense is also outstanding. What is surprising is they have Steichen in 5th behind Kafka and Evero. I would think Steichen would be a close third with Evero and Kafka trailing.

Yeah, that was surprising

I'm beginning to think teams are growing tired of Peyton and the games he's playing and end up not wanting to give up what NO wants.

I'm betting he doesn't coach next year.

Ag_07 said:

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I'm beginning to think teams are growing tired of Peyton and the games he's playing and end up not wanting to give up what NO wants.

I'm betting he doesn't coach next year.

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He can wait around for another year on a fat TV Analyst salary until Jerry Jones fires McCarthy and comes calling.

coastalAg said:

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Ag_07 said:

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I'm beginning to think teams are growing tired of Peyton and the games he's playing and end up not wanting to give up what NO wants.

I'm betting he doesn't coach next year.

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He can wait around for another year on a fat TV Analyst salary until Jerry Jones fires McCarthy and comes calling.

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Plus I don't think he'll cost a draft pick next year (I think). I do think if the cowboys don't make the superbowl this year, Peyton will be the head coach going into 2024. This year, I think if teams didn't have to trade a 1st to get him, he would already be hired.

Glad it won't be Payton. In general, I'm not a fan of failed, recycled coaches. For example, why will Frank Reich do better in Charlotte than he did in Indy?

That said, I would have thought an offensive minded coach would be a better fit. Can I get some opinions on Gannon vs Ryans?

I don't think Reich was really given enough time in Indy.

I've said before I think with Demeco although he's a DC he comes from the Shanahan tree and assume would bring in a good OC from that same tree.

I also think he's a solid leader that would make up for the lack of offensive genius.

This is the most active I've seen this thread in a while. I like it.

scd88 said:

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Glad it won't be Payton. In general, I'm not a fan of failed, recycled coaches. For example, why will Frank Reich do better in Charlotte than he did in Indy?

That said, I would have thought an offensive minded coach would be a better fit. Can I get some opinions on Gannon vs Ryans?

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The upside is that both Gannon and Ryan understand they need a great offense in addition to their defense to succeed in this league. So they should hire with that in mind

Okay, fair points. Who are some Shanahan disciples?

I like Brian Johnson as an OC even if we hire DeMeco. Also DeMeco would hopefully bring Johnny Holland back as LB coach.

IrishAg said:

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scd88 said:

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Glad it won't be Payton. In general, I'm not a fan of failed, recycled coaches. For example, why will Frank Reich do better in Charlotte than he did in Indy?

That said, I would have thought an offensive minded coach would be a better fit. Can I get some opinions on Gannon vs Ryans?

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The upside is that both Gannon and Ryan understand they need a great offense in addition to their defense to succeed in this league. So they should hire with that in mind

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Pretty sure everybody understands that they probably should have a great offense and defense if they want to reach their goals

mAgnoliAg said:

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IrishAg said:

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scd88 said:

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Glad it won't be Payton. In general, I'm not a fan of failed, recycled coaches. For example, why will Frank Reich do better in Charlotte than he did in Indy?

That said, I would have thought an offensive minded coach would be a better fit. Can I get some opinions on Gannon vs Ryans?

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The upside is that both Gannon and Ryan understand they need a great offense in addition to their defense to succeed in this league. So they should hire with that in mind

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Pretty sure everybody understands that they probably should have a great offense and defense if they want to reach their goals

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I would say there's a difference between seeing it,being told it, and actually understanding it. I think with the success they're having they understand how critical it is to field a fluid and versatile offense and not just one that makes it easier for the defense.

scd88 said:

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Okay, fair points. Who are some Shanahan disciples?

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If DeMeco got the job and solely raided the SF staff I'd love to see him bring on Bobby Slowik (passing game coordinator) as the OC. They've been successful with multiple QBs this season and at a high level and he's been with Shanahan for years. DC wise you could make an argument for Cory Undlin (defensive pass game specialist/secondary,) Johnny Holland (linebackers,) or Kris Kocurek (defensive line.)

BCSGrubber said:

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#49ers DC DeMeco Ryans has emerged as a top candidate for the #Texans, sources tell me and @TomPelissero. He’s expected to meet with Houston at some point next week after the game. There is mutual interest and if all goes well, he could be their next head coach. pic.twitter.com/Wj2htQYEd1

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) January 27, 2023

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I can't hear this....lalalalalala.....I won't let you back into my house hope.....I'm not gonna let you back in

Between Gannon and Ryans, I like Ryans. Regarding where the Texans are right now with the draft picks and coaching hire, it seems like this is the most "functional" they have behaved in a long time.