woodiewood1 said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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Midtown College Station was a passion of a prior council(s). The area does hold tremendous potential to be an extraordinary district with a unique identity. That potential is unrealized. The homeowners there bought into their neighborhood believing it would be much more than what it is, and they paid more than double the property taxes the rest of us do on that belief. It's a frustrating situation. I understand why they're not satisfied. I'm not either.

The good news is no party appears to be in material breach of the various agreements; the infrastructure is top notch; a very cool park is going in about a mile away; the neighborhood and neighbors have a great vibe and there's a sense of camaraderie. There also happens to be a best-in-class health system anchored there. Costco is doing its thing, and there's an exciting development pending just north of it.

What we're missing is optimism and partnership between the developer and city hall. The developer didn't want this to become his career project- he just wanted to build homes. The city wanted Midtown and a YMCA and a walkable downtown and all the rest of it, and wouldn't take no for an answer. Thereafter, once the incentives were in place, the city walked away, having fulfilled its contractual obligations, and said good luck.

At the same time the city wanted exciting growth in that area, it began adopting an ethos of constraint on growth across the city. Perhaps that's not entirely fair… more like "if you want to do business here you're welcome, but be prepared to pay a steep entry fee to do so." That strategy has proven to be incompatible with Midtown- and a lot of other things.

So we have an area with good bones and lots of potential, but the residents are unhappy and spending too much in taxes, and the Developer is unhappy that his original plan he feels was hijacked, and the city is shrugging their shoulders and saying we did what we said we would do…and by the four corners of the agreement, the city did.

That's how we got here.

The question now is what to do next? I don't have a specific policy position yet. It's another conundrum. We have definitely lost a lot of time. Had both parties kept their enthusiasm and pursued it together on complimentary tracks, who knows where we might be today- but we did not.

We could dissolve the MMD and somehow resolve the infrastructure debt. That way the residents of the area would have their tax burden cut in half. The land would develop naturally over time by the private sector.

In the alternative, we could take measured steps to put it back on track. We could prioritize on the capital plan the completion of Town Lake boulevard to the highway and thus create four hard corners at the intersection of Town Lake and Midtown Drive. We could do monuments and signage and branding and create a sense of place that it does not have today. A lot of people don't even know where Midtown College Station is. That's a testament to the failure of everyone involved really. We could rebrand the water tower next to the hospital Midtown College Station. Lord knows we get enough complaints about that one. That would ensure everyone knew where our Midtown was whether you lived there or not. To me it's really pretty embarrassing that we invested so much in this project and people don't even know it's there. We could rebrand Texas Independence Park to simply Midtown Park. We could also build a small community center/rec center there.

Yet a third option would be to go big as the developer is proposing. We do indeed have two studies underway. One is for a robust city recreation center and another for a convention center. The Developer is proposing that they both go there, along with an indoor outdoor waterpark like Great Wolf Lodge.

I don't know what the answer is, but with all this as background, I would love to hear what the bosses have to say. Thoughts?

Respectfully

Yancy '95

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We could dissolve the MMD and somehow resolve the infrastructure debt. That way the residents of the area would have their tax burden cut in half. The land would develop naturally over time by the private sector.

This is exactly what needs to be done.

I can see the need for a community rec center with indoor and outdoor swimming opportunities. Follow the design of the one in the much smaller city of Brenham., If you haven't been there, you need to take a visit to it. I think a rec center would be a great addition to the area. Not sure if Midtown is the best location?

As far as a convention center. What do you think will attract people here for a convention rather than Houston or Austin or even Waco?

Waco has announced a development plan includes new $50 million park and minor league ballpark near their convention center and River Walk. With all the other attractive activities there, If I was scheduling a convention (and I did schedule about 25 when with A&M), They have a couple of dozen attractions that we don't have including an airport with more access from out of town. I sure would pick Waco over College Station.

I am afraid that our convention center would end up being quarterly gun shows and area-wide garage sales.

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Thanks for your feedback. Very much appreciated.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

Bob Yancy said:

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Midtown College Station was a passion of a prior council(s).
Respectfully

Yancy '95

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Bob, please remember this warning (like that is it it is your own words ) as you keep pushing the Conference Center. That seems to be a passion of yours.

You don't want a future City Council member posting in here 5-10 years that is explaining why the Conference Center has been such a failure and money pit and using this same explanation as to why they personally, are not at fault for it.

91_Aggie said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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Midtown College Station was a passion of a prior council(s).
Respectfully

Yancy '95

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Bob, please remember this warning (like that is it it is your own words ) as you keep pushing the Conference Center. That seems to be a passion of yours.

You don't want a future City Council member posting in here 5-10 years that is explaining why the Conference Center has been such a failure and money pit and using this same explanation as to why they personally, are not at fault for it.

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That's 100% fair. The only way I would move forward on an events center is if we had some combination of the cities, county, school districts and university working together toward a shared community vision, and shared funding. No way College Station can go it alone.

But this is different. Recall that the private sector owned this land and a developer had a plan. The city stepped in and said "no, we want this instead" and foisted its idea onto the market. That's a big difference.

In my mind that means we own a big part of the outcome. Frankly we should WANT the success of Midtown. That passion for success shouldn't have to be inculcated into anyone- it should already be there.

How did we become passionate about pursuing a mall redevelopment and at the same time shrug our shoulders on Midtown after dictating its future? Head scratcher.

In either event we have work to do, in my opinion.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

Was Midtown another brainchild of our city Manager that brought this to the council and recommended it?

91_Aggie said:

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Was Midtown another brainchild of our city Manager that brought this to the council and recommended it?

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Negative. The deal was done before this administration. As one member of council, I'd like to see city hall be as motivated about the concept as predecessors apparently were, though.

The answer to your question, however, is no.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

They need to fix the turn from town lake onto midtown. That curb is already dark with tire strikes and will eventually break down with trailers and construction equipment driving over it. That was too tight to start with and will only breakdown over time.

CT'97 said:

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They need to fix the turn from town lake onto midtown. That curb is already dark with tire strikes and will eventually break down with trailers and construction equipment driving over it. That was too tight to start with and will only breakdown over time.

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Yes. I've reported that. Not sure about when it'll be resolved. Part of that is that Midtown Drive will ultimately be 4 lanes, two each way. The reason it's awkward now is you're driving on half a road, basically.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

Bob Yancy said:

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A lot of people don't even know where Midtown College Station is.

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It was named "Midtown" and it is on the edge of town. There is no getting around this problem near-ish term without a rebrand.

I propose one of those cutesy acronyms like OPSaW (out past Scott and White).

You keep using words like "we" and "the city." It seems to obfuscate on some details.

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The city wanted Midtown and a YMCA and a walkable downtown and all the rest of it, and wouldn't take no for an answer. Thereafter, once the incentives were in place, the city walked away, having fulfilled its contractual obligations, and said good luck.

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Who wanted this? The YMCA thing was Mooney's boondoggle, wasn't it? Is there anyone else you are referring to as "the city" here? Because if there are planners that think of Midtown as College Station's downtown, that is hilarious and unfortunate news.

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The city stepped in and said "no, we want this instead"

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Who said this? Taxpayers didn't say this. Seems like they shouldn't get the blame or be put on the hook for boondoggles to try to make it up to the developer. If somebody wronged the developer, who was it?

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we own a big part of the outcome

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Who is we? Taxpayers don't own nothing. Are you trying to use their money to buy something? Why not sell the Macys before adding more properties to the list of city-owned white elephants?

[We are going to keep this thread on subject about Midtown. -Staff]

Thank you Mr. Yancey for concern for home owners of Midtown.

Bob Yancy said:

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Brian Alg said:

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You keep using words like "we" and "the city." It seems to obfuscate on some details.

Quote:

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The city wanted Midtown and a YMCA and a walkable downtown and all the rest of it, and wouldn't take no for an answer. Thereafter, once the incentives were in place, the city walked away, having fulfilled its contractual obligations, and said good luck.

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Who wanted this? The YMCA thing was Mooney's boondoggle, wasn't it? Is there anyone else you are referring to as "the city" here? Because if there are planners that think of Midtown as College Station's downtown, that is hilarious and unfortunate news.

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The city stepped in and said "no, we want this instead"

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Who said this? Taxpayers didn't say this. Seems like they shouldn't get the blame or be put on the hook for boondoggles to try to make it up to the developer. If somebody wronged the developer, who was it?

Quote:

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we own a big part of the outcome

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Who is we? Taxpayers don't own nothing. Are you trying to use their money to buy something? Why not sell the Macys before adding more properties to the list of city-owned white elephants?

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Howdy Brian,

A lot to unpack there…

In the context of this thread, I mean city hall as in city council and staff. Your point is a good one in that I don't recall there ever being a vote by the citizens. The MMD was established by the legislature at the request of city council and staff. Then Representative John Raney, in a committee presentation discussing the bill, states "this comes from city council." No I'm not recommending we spend taxpayer money at this time. I'm presenting a limited list of options, among many.

Macy's is a different issue, of course. Staff are working hard on Macys. Nothing to report on that at this time.

Thanks and have a wonderful Mother's Day everyone!

I'm out!

Respectfully

Yancy '95

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I have no problem with the city spending the additional tax money, but no additional monies, that has been collected from the residents on the development of the area.

If I was a resident I would also be upset over what has occurred. Having said that, I would have never purchased a home in an area with that additional tax that you have no idea when it will be used, on what it will be used on, and if it will ever end. No, Nada, Nunca.

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We do indeed have two studies underway. One is for a robust city recreation center and another for a convention center. The Developer is proposing that they both go there, along with an indoor outdoor waterpark like Great Wolf Lodge.

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Would these developments be paid for with private funds?

We don't want studies on developments paid for with our tax dollars. In fact we don't even want you to waste money on a study at all..... Just let private industry build what is needed.

Brian Alg said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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A lot of people don't even know where Midtown College Station is.

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It was named "Midtown" and it is on the edge of town. There is no getting around this problem near-ish term without a rebrand.

I propose one of those cutesy acronyms like OPSaW (out past Scott and White).

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In all seriousness this community already had a Midtown in BCS. Renaming it would help.

The WTAW article said it was the78th time a CS city council meeting included the midtown district

Sounds like council members past and present know this situation well, yet as we watch nothing is being done for the folks living there and paying ridiculous taxes

It seems the homeowner's best path forward is to visit their state legislators, present their issues, and request the legislature dissolve the district.

Stucco said:

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It seems the homeowner's best path forward is to visit their state legislators, present their issues, and request the legislature dissolve the district.

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Why should the homeowners go to state legislators? They weren't the ones who requested the legislation. It was requested by the city in 2013 and it is my understanding the city can dissolve the MMD.

UhOhNoAgTag said:

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Stucco said:

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It seems the homeowner's best path forward is to visit their state legislators, present their issues, and request the legislature dissolve the district.

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Why should the homeowners go to state legislators? They weren't the ones who requested the legislation. It was requested by the city in 2013 and it is my understanding the city can dissolve the MMD.

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Lately it seems the city has had to answer to the Lege for past egregious laws like the unrelated roommates prohibition. I suspect this avenue may become more commonly used by citizens battling overly authoritarian city councils.

UhOhNoAgTag said:

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Stucco said:

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It seems the homeowner's best path forward is to visit their state legislators, present their issues, and request the legislature dissolve the district.

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Why should the homeowners go to state legislators? They weren't the ones who requested the legislation. It was requested by the city in 2013 and it is my understanding the city can dissolve the MMD.

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Why would they do that? The city's last move was to raise the rate. Was this a bilaterial negotiated increase? If so, what did the city promise in exchange for the extra 0.15?

happyinBCS said:

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Exactly
Maybe Bob can tell us what the 30% increase is for

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It's a long and complicated story but the increase was to pay for infrastructure and administration. The longer it goes without developing the greater the burden on homeowners until the investments made can be spread out over commercial taxpayers too as opposed to just the residents. That's very overarching but basically it.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

Bob Yancy said:

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91_Aggie said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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Midtown College Station was a passion of a prior council(s).
Respectfully

Yancy '95

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Bob, please remember this warning (like that is it it is your own words ) as you keep pushing the Conference Center. That seems to be a passion of yours.

You don't want a future City Council member posting in here 5-10 years that is explaining why the Conference Center has been such a failure and money pit and using this same explanation as to why they personally, are not at fault for it.

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That's 100% fair. The only way I would move forward on an events center is if we had some combination of the cities, county, school districts and university working together toward a shared community vision, and shared funding. No way College Station can go it alone.

But this is different. Recall that the private sector owned this land and a developer had a plan. The city stepped in and said "no, we want this instead" and foisted its idea onto the market. That's a big difference.

In my mind that means we own a big part of the outcome. Frankly we should WANT the success of Midtown. That passion for success shouldn't have to be inculcated into anyone- it should already be there.

How did we become passionate about pursuing a mall redevelopment and at the same time shrug our shoulders on Midtown after dictating its future? Head scratcher.

In either event we have work to do, in my opinion.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

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"How did we become passionate about pursuing a mall redevelopment and at the same time shrug our shoulders on Midtown after dictating its future? Head scratcher."

Neither should have been done. The city's charge should be to supply essential services to its constituents. It shouldn't be performing functions that the private sector should do if needed and can do better.

If the city didn't involve itself in the Midtown area, it would have developed well when the need arrived as occurred

elsewhere such as Towerpoint, Wellborn road from SW Pkway to Fitch, and other locations in the city.

The city needs to stick to where they should be.

woodiewood1 said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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91_Aggie said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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Midtown College Station was a passion of a prior council(s).
Respectfully

Yancy '95

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Bob, please remember this warning (like that is it it is your own words ) as you keep pushing the Conference Center. That seems to be a passion of yours.

You don't want a future City Council member posting in here 5-10 years that is explaining why the Conference Center has been such a failure and money pit and using this same explanation as to why they personally, are not at fault for it.

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That's 100% fair. The only way I would move forward on an events center is if we had some combination of the cities, county, school districts and university working together toward a shared community vision, and shared funding. No way College Station can go it alone.

But this is different. Recall that the private sector owned this land and a developer had a plan. The city stepped in and said "no, we want this instead" and foisted its idea onto the market. That's a big difference.

In my mind that means we own a big part of the outcome. Frankly we should WANT the success of Midtown. That passion for success shouldn't have to be inculcated into anyone- it should already be there.

How did we become passionate about pursuing a mall redevelopment and at the same time shrug our shoulders on Midtown after dictating its future? Head scratcher.

In either event we have work to do, in my opinion.

Respectfully,

Yancy '95

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"How did we become passionate about pursuing a mall redevelopment and at the same time shrug our shoulders on Midtown after dictating its future? Head scratcher."

Neither should have been done. The city's charge should be to supply essential services to its constituents. It shouldn't be performing functions that the private sector should do if needed and can do better.

If the city didn't involve itself in the Midtown area, it would have developed well when the need arrived as occurred

elsewhere such as Towerpoint, Wellborn road from SW Pkway to Fitch, and other locations in the city.

The city needs to stick to where they should be.

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Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it very much.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

What woodie said times eleventy-billion.

The two questions I have are: what happened to the road extensions? Town Lake Drive was originally built as a (disconnected) version of Bird Pond Road, then renamed. Likewise, Corporate Parkway was originally Pebble Creek Parkway. I assume they were renamed as the city was no longer interested in connecting them.

The second question is, if the extra taxes aren't going toward this big development promised, where ARE they going? Either way, I feel that if CS proposes something to be done with the extra tax dollars as promised you'll get the usual "Kollege Station steals my tax dollars for private development projects" whining as usual.