CS City Council Place 5 - Data Center Update

101,070 Views | 931 Replies | Last: 7 days ago by Koko Chingo
Hornbeck
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Hey Bob….

Who's making these policies / guidelines / unwritten rules that you all are beholden to?

They sure do seem wrong, limiting discussion on things on the agenda. Seems like the butcher putting his thumb on the scale to me.
CS78
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Hearing a lot of different reasons, but I don't think we've ever had a subject where everyone agreed this consistently.
Koko Chingo
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Bob Yancy said:

If, for whatever reason we do not approve this project on Thursday night, there's quite a few things I'd suggest we do going forward:

1) I'd like to get an independent consultant to advise us on the data center industry overall.

Current trends. Who are the common end users of data centers. Where have they failed, and why? Where have they worked, and why? Beyond the decibel numbers, has the constant low hum led to problems next to neighborhoods, and how far away do they truly need to be in order to quell those complaints? And what about small or mid-size data centers? I've read articles that say that's an untapped market. Might we as a city develop a "powered data park" ourselves and energize the site, deriving much greater value from this land as it appears the proposed buyer is trying to do? We already own a best-in-class electric utility in CSU. How can we leverage that taxpayer asset to the benefit of this site, if at all?

2) the Midtown Business Park: IF we don't approve this, I have questions about the location of the industrial park itself. Is it properly placed? Given the neighborhoods, the Langford, the new Costco and the exciting new mixed use development coming in next to it, with a potential housing development as well- and the Lowe's, what exactly is the highest and best use of that considerable amount of land? Were it housing, a family could literally bike or walk to Costco or a future restaurant. We are in a housing crisis, not a lack of data centers crisis in College Station. Have circumstances and development in that area changed to a point where we need to rethink that location altogether as an industrial park?

3) What's our plan for the next business park if we sell this now? Will we not have one? If we do, where would it be? Down Fitch toward 30? That's a business corridor already. Might that be a good place for a business park? The payment from selling it now would be more than enough to acquire land there in a voluntary annexation acquisition.

I like to approach things from 50,000 feet. I don't like building new public works facilities with no plan for what to do with the current site. I don't like to enter into real estate contracts in order to "figure out" if something is feasible in water and power consumption later until extensive early due diligence is done which I know yields important insights, just as it already has for me on this project. I don't like to enter into a contract with anyone until I know their corporate history, when they were formed and by whom, when they were last bought and by whom, what is their legal history and has their business model changed recently, and why. I don't like entering into contracts with people I've never met or seen. Staff can see to the contractual X's and O's after I've looked them in the eye and heard their plan. If something goes south after we enter a deal and the taxpayer asks me questions about how we got into it, "I'm sorry I never met these people I've no clue" does not cut it. I also don't like entering into real estate contracts on a student tower with renderings not approximating anything close to what we think we might want. Conceptual drawings are crucial to any development project.

And most of all, I want citizen engagement early. If that's small, intimate meetings with nearby neighborhoods or merchants in the area, or open workshops or surveys or council led ambassadorial efforts with our constituents, or all of the above- I want the bosses to know early on where our head is at and with due respect to staff and my colleagues- I will never change on that. I just won't.

I made my initial post on this data center from that mindset. I was 24 hours early in doing so. I jumped the gun by a day because a) I was certain I had been told this was ready for public dissemination and b) we've had an informal policy of not discussing posted agenda items, which again, is apparently no longer in effect. For jumping the gun by a day, I apologize to my colleagues and to staff. For the citizens getting a heads up on what we are looking at beyond just an agenda post, I make no apology.

We'll hear this Thursday night. A lot of hard work has gone into it by the proposed buyer and seller and it deserves an objective hearing.

See yall Thursday.

Respectfully and transparently always,

Yancy '95

#1
Enough wasted money. We know that the power grid is in terrible shape nation wide. Without increased generation and upgrading the grid, data centers should not even be a topic of conversation.

Interesting choice of words describing our city owned utility company "Best in Class". What class is that? The class that produces no electricity? This is not a knock on CSU. Its just that data centers are all about power consumption. ERCOT is the big dog and regulator for these massive data centers. When it comes to power generation and regulatory issues, CSU doesn't even have a seat at the kids table.

#2
Just another messy issue. Also what percentage of Costco shoppers could carry their purchase back home on a bike, Its a warehouse store.

#3 and the rest:

Isn't the seller the City of College Station? Why word it, "a lot of hard work has gone into it by the proposed buyer and seller"? Its like the best in class utility that produces no electricity. It feels like canned marketing statements.

To me, a business park is not even on my top 10 list of things I feel the city should focus on. You say you like to approach things from a 50,000 ft view. However, that also creates problems. Something similar to, "can't see the forest for the trees". You talk about these subjects such as data centers, business parks, and event centers while completely missing the mark from taxpayers.

The issue is not always the direct points you think you are arguing about. The issue is trust.

When people bring up Macy's, the subject being discussed is trust, not Macys. We know you cannot change the past, but you can make decision that earn out trust. Just like I told my kids when they started their first jobs; build trust and credibility because you will make mistake and need that bank bult up. You do this by getting simple easy wins at the beginning, not necessarily by trying to save the world.

You communication on this forum is great but ultimately your decision-making matters more. To me, the council needs to build credibility with the residents by making good decisions. Like any relationship, the council needs to show us they can take care of the small things first before we trust them with the big things.

While you may bring up , event centers and data centers; people like me don't trust anyone in the council with the ability to make these big decisions. It doesn't matter what yalls resume says, it is what we have lived for a long time here.

I challenge you and the rest of the council to earn our trust. Here are just a few things within your power that will help your credibility and earn the trust of the taxpayers.

#1 Start Small and make good decisions.
Take care of the small things first and we will trust the council with bigger things.

#2 Leaders don't say, "Do not complain unless you offer a solution". That kills trust quickly.
If a poster here complains, it's not their job to have a solution. Even if they approach you with not the greatest tone. You are the elected official and they are bringing the problem to someone they believe can do something about it.

I want and encourage my employees to bring up problems. Sometimes it can get frustrating but that's how small things do not become big things. And many times the solution is above their pay grade or out of their scope in the workplace. If I see a large crack in an overpass should I not contact TXDot because I am not an structural engineer and have no idea how to repair it?

#3 Hold people accountable.
This is the #1 thing you can do and probably the hardest for you. The city manager and some city employees have made absolutely terrible decision and are still employed. They have never been held accountable or even called out by the council. Only the council has the power to fire some of these employees.

Your adversity to address this issue in the past really reduced your credibility with me.

If you could just realize this is all about trust and start small, in a few years; I may even donate to buy a brick in the new Bob Yancy Event Center.




maroon barchetta
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Quote:


Interesting choice of words describing our city owned utility company "Best in Class". What class is that? The class that produces no electricity? This is not a knock on CSU. It's just that data centers are all about power consumption. ERCOT is the big dog and regulator for these massive data centers. When it comes to power generation and regulatory issues, CSU doesn't even have a seat at the kids table.


Best in class at flipping electricity they didn't produce.

Bob, this is one example of why people don't trust leadership at the city. You share these glowing words about city units that hopefully we serfs will believe.

The serfs in this city are smarter than your compadres would like.
doubledog
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we should see how Project Stargate in Abilene pans out next year. Abilene is about BCs size.
ElephantRider
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People really need to read up on ERCOT's deregulated market
ElephantRider
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Hornbeck said:

From what I read earlier in the thread (Elephant Rider), BTU in partnership with Texas New Mexico Power is running a new transmission line from Bremond to RELLIS in order to support the new AI datacenter at RELLIS.

What's unconscionable to me is that Bryan gave their citizens ample time to give their opinions on their new datacenter project. At RELLIS. Not in the middle of town next to Sue Haswell park! To use an example.

We get an agenda item posted after 4 pm, on something this big, and council is voting on it Thursday. Why the rush? Why the push to fly this under the radar?

The county folks and the city folks in Bryan were sworn to secrecy, etc., but they gave their "bosses" the chance to let the opinions be known. Not so much here.

Most folks have no clue this is coming this week, whether they like it or not. Same thing CS did with the new Walmart and Weingarten. People showed up to be upset after the deal was done. When *that* council reversed that decision, the city lost a huge lawsuit because of it.


Just STOP. Quit being in a rush to shove this down our throats. Please. Let the citizens have some input.




1. It's what BTU had proposed to ERCOT. Still needs approval from ERCOT and the PUC

2. I wouldn't say it's just to support the data center. We needed more import capacity anyways, that is just what forced the issue. Coming from the north and having all of the new lines and substations BTU has built over there makes RELLIS a logical place to terminate the line. Two circuits of 345 is a huge jump over what we have now; BCS as a whole will benefit and be better off for it.
Koko Chingo
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Bob Yancy said:

We'll hear this Thursday night. A lot of hard work has gone into it by the proposed buyer and seller and it deserves an objective hearing.

See yall Thursday.

Respectfully and transparently always,

Yancy '95


This whole thing really bothers me because we are going to get no benefit and feel the pain in our electric bill. It bugs me that the "Seller" has put in a lot of hard work. The seller is the city of College Station who put all this work in and wants to push this through in less than a week.

I hate the "We know better than you attitude" from our council.

I will post the link to the contract. The seller - City of College Station is listed on page 23 of the PDF.

On page 25 and 26 of the contract (PDF page#) the buyer has already signed and notarized the contract. To me is sounds like the city is ready to sign off on this thing Thursday night and the hearing is just for show.

Data Center Contract

Why would the "seller" (City of College Station) have the buyer sign the largest municipal contract before the required hearing has even taken place?

Maybe because the deal is done?

Or Maybe any of the following (Bob Yancys Words):

-This agreement, if consummated, would constitute the largest single property tax payer in city history, by my research.

-This agreement, if consummated, would constitute the largest utility payer in CS history. There would also be a substantial payment of sales tax/fees on the utility payments

-$30,000,000 would constitute the largest single municipal land sale in city history by my research

Its always about being bigger or first and keeping up with Joneses. The council cannot spend fast enough.

Our reward for a data center would be rolling blackouts in the summer and higher electric bills year round. We can all shelter at the City of College Station cooling center (former Macys).
maroon barchetta
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After they get the mold and asbestos out of Macy's, right?
mwm
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"Maybe because the deal is done?"

You hit the nail square on the head. Their "vote" has already been decided. Thursday night is all "for show".

The serfs are immaterial except when they are to pay their taxes.

The council is a mirror image of the knuckleheads in Washington D.C.
Koko Chingo
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That's just organic eco friendly wall treatment
Valen
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I think my opinions about this center have been very clear, but if I was in staffs position just arbitrary and I had this big fish on the hook I would want to be ready to execute. If council approved it then I'd want to hammer the gas pedal to close the deal.

Now I believe the council should have the due diligence period before the contract is signed and I will never move from that stance. I just wanted to give a different view as if I was staff just to play devils advocate.
maroon barchetta
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Valen said:

I think my opinions about this center have been very clear, but if I was in staffs position just arbitrary and I had this big fish on the hook I would want to be ready to execute. If council approved it then I'd want to hammer the gas pedal to close the deal.

Now I believe the council should have the due diligence period before the contract is signed and I will never move from that stance. I just wanted to give a different view as if I was staff just to play devils advocate.


You're confused.

Staff would never communicate that much with the public.
EliteElectric
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CoCS has operated as a banana republic for decades with the Big School acting as the natural resource. I've said it before and I'll say it again, without TAMU CoCS would blow away like a tumble weed. It doesn't exist because of itself it exists despite itself
JP76
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"Why would the "seller" (City of College Station) have the buyer sign the largest municipal contract before the required hearing has even taken place?"

Doesn't the buyer always sign a contract when presenting an offer to the seller ?


Or does it work differently in commercial real estate ?
Diddler_44
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Mr. Yancy,

I find oddly amusing that you only reply to the softball questions. Even when people are polite and non confrontational, if you don't agree with their opinion, then you don't respond. Why not address the concerns of your dissenters?

Respectfully,
Dr. Diddler '01
CaptTex
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What's strange is CSU could do a feasibility study on a CC Energy Center, Texas has made vast sums of money available to companies to ease the burden of thermal generation construction. This is a golden opportunity to analyze whether or not a CC unit is economically feasible in a deregulated market, which could then generate revenue by participating in the BES, cold hard cash. Now there are several considerations that need to be made, but we are talking major jobs to build it and permanent operations jobs to run it.

The issues I see in my uneducated opinion, is water usage(as I've stated previously on this thread) and fuel, there needs to be ample Natural Gas in order to run the unit during all weather conditions, along with the necessary transmission lines to get bring the POI to the unit. With PUCT announcing a new 765KV system to be constructed here in Texas, transmission operators are creating opportunities to alleviate congestion and balance generation to load with more ease.

College Station City Council talks about creating opportunities, but they have something worth looking at right here without a ridiculous data center in the equation. Granted the location of the CC needs to be outside of town away from residential areas to just avoid issues with people entirely. While CSU is not an entity that is just a power house(pun intended) recognizing this opportunity and potentially leveraging their position within the BES is a way to benefit the community and generate dollars without increasing the expense to live here. Everything has risk, but you and everyone else typing on this computer proves one thing, electricity is always needed.

And yeah this isn't sexy, it's not a convention center or a new titty bar or whatever shiny thing someone thinks is their legacy. But thoughts like this are what grow a community and benefit everyone, putting dollars in peoples' pockets who live here, not just the fuel for drunken spending habits of an inept and often nonsensical city government. Much like the federal government or anyone in a position of power without consequence, not a single thing will change until someone goes to prison, and in my opinion anyone who touches tax dollars should be terrified to death of that possibility. You are here to serve the people, not yourselves.

As Elite Electric alluded to, CSU/COCS need to buck A&M, what are they going to do, leave? Didn't mean to drag you into my post, but I saw it and agree with you.
Bob Yancy
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Diddler_44 said:

Mr. Yancy,

I find oddly amusing that you only reply to the softball questions. Even when people are polite and non confrontational, if you don't agree with their opinion, then you don't respond. Why not address the concerns of your dissenters?

Respectfully,
Dr. Diddler '01


What's your question, sir?
My opinions are mine and should not be construed as those of city council or staff. I welcome robust debate but will cease communication on any thread in which colleagues or staff are personally criticized. I must refrain from comment on posted agenda items until after meetings are concluded. Bob Yancy 95
maroon barchetta
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Read the last sentence of his post.
Koko Chingo
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In those cases you typically do not have to conduct a public hearing in order for the transaction to be legal. And typically the government doesn't move very quickly.

And in a private transaction, do what you want. With our tax dollars and a requirement for public input. Along with this being a hot button topic that receives massive protests for every data center around the nation.

Why would any company assume something is a done deal, and why would the city even assume something is a done deal, unless that agreement was already made before they even brought it to our attention.

When you start researching who gets data centers without actual power generation, it's the fool who get them.

Any data center without additional generating capacity hurts all Texans. Even though this is a College Station issue, those in Bryan will definitely feel the pain with increased rates and potential rolling blackouts.

Remember the big freeze, not so bad if you have a fireplace or a couple extra blankets . Imagine that in August when the AC cuts out for a couple hours at a time.

The city hit us with a big deal and not much time to even prepare. The city of College Station spent a lot of time behind closed doors in secrecy, apparently all legal like with an NDA. And they give us less than a week to prepare.

What did they have, months???

It was just a day ago. We even found out who the buyer was. The citizens of College Station cannot even perform due diligence in the matter with a limited time available.

This whole thing stinks really really badly. And giving this a really short timeline just doesn't look bad. It actually is bad. If the buyer cannot wait until after Thursday night then the transaction should not take place and is definitely not on the up and up.

While not illegal, that notarized says a lot

Hornbeck
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Folks are trying to mobilize and engage.

Similar to Rosemary.
Similar to Northgate Tower.

They don't want to hear us.
Diddler_44
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There are 50 of them in this thread that you haven't addressed. Pick one.
Tailgate88
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Diddler_44 said:

There are 50 of them in this thread that you haven't addressed. Pick one.


I am pretty strongly against this data center based on what we know so far.

That said…You're the one who accused him of dodging questions. He asked what question(s). You dodged his question.
Bob Yancy
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Diddler_44 said:

There are 50 of them in this thread that you haven't addressed. Pick one.


The irony is so thick I could cut it with a knife. Inside city hall there are many upset I broke the news at all. Many would've preferred the agenda get posted one week before and if you didn't log on and read it, we deliberate in a quiet room on a Thursday night. That would've been wrong.

But I'm liable to walk into executive session and get chewed out for starting this thread at all.

And to you I'm not being forthcoming enough. Jeez n Pete's, man.

I'm not going to scour this thread. If you have a question I'll try to answer it.

Have a blessed Sunday.

Respectfully

Yancy '95
My opinions are mine and should not be construed as those of city council or staff. I welcome robust debate but will cease communication on any thread in which colleagues or staff are personally criticized. I must refrain from comment on posted agenda items until after meetings are concluded. Bob Yancy 95
2020
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Bob Yancy said:

Diddler_44 said:

There are 50 of them in this thread that you haven't addressed. Pick one.


The irony is so thick I could cut it with a knife. Inside city hall there are many upset I broke the news at all. And to you I'm not being forthcoming enough. I'm not going to scour this thread. If you have a question I'll try to answer it.

Have a blessed Sunday.

Respectfully

Yancy '95


How long have city staff been communicating with the proposed developer regarding this project?
maroon barchetta
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Bob Yancy said:

Diddler_44 said:

There are 50 of them in this thread that you haven't addressed. Pick one.


The irony is so thick I could cut it with a knife. Inside city hall there are many upset I broke the news at all. And to you I'm not being forthcoming enough. I'm not going to scour this thread. If you have a question I'll try to answer it.

Have a blessed Sunday.

Respectfully

Yancy '95


Of course they are upset. Sharing info gives the serfs time to respond.
Bob Yancy
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maroon barchetta said:

Bob Yancy said:

Diddler_44 said:

There are 50 of them in this thread that you haven't addressed. Pick one.


The irony is so thick I could cut it with a knife. Inside city hall there are many upset I broke the news at all. And to you I'm not being forthcoming enough. I'm not going to scour this thread. If you have a question I'll try to answer it.

Have a blessed Sunday.

Respectfully

Yancy '95


Of course they are upset. Sharing info gives the serfs time to respond.


Transparency makes serfs into bosses.

My opinions are mine and should not be construed as those of city council or staff. I welcome robust debate but will cease communication on any thread in which colleagues or staff are personally criticized. I must refrain from comment on posted agenda items until after meetings are concluded. Bob Yancy 95
maroon barchetta
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This is opaque at best.
CS78
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It's almost like the council's number one goal is to maintain their bad reputation. Could they try any harder? People are going to be PISSED when they find out about this.
EliteElectric
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I know you won't, but I would love for you to divuldge, publicly, the names of those who "chewed you out" for starting this thread, or even the names of those who simply don'twant us to know what the city is up to. This is why people think CoCS operates as a banana republic
Bob Yancy
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EliteElectric said:

I know you won't, but I would love for you to divuldge, publicly, the names of those who "chewed you out" for starting this thread, or even the names of those who simply don'twant us to know what the city is up to. This is why people think CoCS operates as a banana republic


No, I won't. But y'all got your heads up, one day in advance of agenda posting. The bosses have a right to know, and now you know.

I'm going to play an exceedingly rare round of golf this afternoon and will be incommunicado, so yall make Diddler aware I'm not refusing to be forthcoming, will ya? ;-)

Yancy out

Respectfully


My opinions are mine and should not be construed as those of city council or staff. I welcome robust debate but will cease communication on any thread in which colleagues or staff are personally criticized. I must refrain from comment on posted agenda items until after meetings are concluded. Bob Yancy 95
VAXMaster
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Bob Yancy said:

Diddler_44 said:

There are 50 of them in this thread that you haven't addressed. Pick one.


The irony is so thick I could cut it with a knife. Inside city hall there are many upset I broke the news at all. Many would've preferred the agenda get posted one week before and if you didn't log on and read it, we deliberate in a quiet room on a Thursday night. That would've been wrong.

But I'm liable to walk into executive session and get chewed out for starting this thread at all.

And to you I'm not being forthcoming enough. Jeez n Pete's, man.

I'm not going to scour this thread. If you have a question I'll try to answer it.

Have a blessed Sunday.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

We may disagree on some underlying premises of the proper role and priorities of local government, but I greatly appreciate you highlighting this and other issues to the public through this forum and do believe that you are sincere in wanting the public informed and in wanting feedback. Here are a few basic questions that you might want to address or work to have staff address so that the public can make an informed decision on where they stand.

1. The proposal states that water consumption will not be above what was planned for the industrial park, how much water consumption was planned and is it fully covered by the currently funded water capacity?
2. What are the current noise ordinances that would apply to this property, the limits and the consequences of a violation?
3. How can the citizens (who are not allowed to participate in the free market but instead forced to purchase from the CSU monopoly) in case of a power shortage ensure that they have priority for power deliver over the proposed largest electrical consumer for CSU? Said another way, if the citizens agree to sell their land for $30M, is there any mechanism that would ensure residential customers would maintain higher delivery priority than the new power consumption gorilla?
4. If the deal closes and the city realizes $30M in revenue, what "bucket" would those funds be in - the unrestricted general fund, or something else?

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my own view (knowing quite a bit about data centers) is that midtown is not a great place for a 600MW installation but if the citizens have appropriate protections in place for issues like the questions above, then the city should sell the land and redeploy that capital to reduce the local tax burden, NOT to turn around and spend it on some other pet project, or to try and compete with private enterprise.
ElephantRider
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Let's be real, it will absolutely go to a pet project. My money is on a convention center. We will find out about it after it's a done deal
turfman80
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As an outsider looking on, two things on this thread have made me shake my head . One, that this project was even considered in the first place, and two, that the culture of CS hired staff would lead an elected councilman to even have to post something like " Inside city hall there are many upset I broke the news at all".
Valen
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VAXMaster said:

Bob Yancy said:

Diddler_44 said:

There are 50 of them in this thread that you haven't addressed. Pick one.


The irony is so thick I could cut it with a knife. Inside city hall there are many upset I broke the news at all. Many would've preferred the agenda get posted one week before and if you didn't log on and read it, we deliberate in a quiet room on a Thursday night. That would've been wrong.

But I'm liable to walk into executive session and get chewed out for starting this thread at all.

And to you I'm not being forthcoming enough. Jeez n Pete's, man.

I'm not going to scour this thread. If you have a question I'll try to answer it.

Have a blessed Sunday.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

We may disagree on some underlying premises of the proper role and priorities of local government, but I greatly appreciate you highlighting this and other issues to the public through this forum and do believe that you are sincere in wanting the public informed and in wanting feedback. Here are a few basic questions that you might want to address or work to have staff address so that the public can make an informed decision on where they stand.

1. The proposal states that water consumption will not be above what was planned for the industrial park, how much water consumption was planned and is it fully covered by the currently funded water capacity?
2. What are the current noise ordinances that would apply to this property, the limits and the consequences of a violation?
3. How can the citizens (who are not allowed to participate in the free market but instead forced to purchase from the CSU monopoly) in case of a power shortage ensure that they have priority for power deliver over the proposed largest electrical consumer for CSU? Said another way, if the citizens agree to sell their land for $30M, is there any mechanism that would ensure residential customers would maintain higher delivery priority than the new power consumption gorilla?
4. If the deal closes and the city realizes $30M in revenue, what "bucket" would those funds be in - the unrestricted general fund, or something else?

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my own view (knowing quite a bit about data centers) is that midtown is not a great place for a 600MW installation but if the citizens have appropriate protections in place for issues like the questions above, then the city should sell the land and redeploy that capital to reduce the local tax burden, NOT to turn around and spend it on some other pet project, or to try and compete with private enterprise.



My research is showing the same thing. I will say that my research also shows that the city does have some control over when power goes in and out when we have rolling blackouts. So just think of winter storm Uri in 21'. The city utilities, to my knowledge, did have a say in which quadrants had the rolling blackouts so that the hospitals and fire department didn't lose power.

My wishful thinking is that even on the power consumption side, let's say we could provide the power that, if the contract allows, we would have the control to power neighborhoods first.

However, I don't know the policy inside the city, what their priorities would be, and I don't want to speak on their behalf.

I've even floated the idea in my own homework on where I land with this. The conclusion for me was that even if we forced them to use nuclear and not traditional power, then we'd still have a water problem.

As I've read through here and conducted my own research, I simply can't comprehend how this pencils well for our community in that district or in the city limits at all for that matter. While this is a here-and-now problem, it'll be a much larger 15 years from now problem, and I'm not comfortable with that.
 
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