Wonder what the protection looked like from the parking lot.

You sell bollards or what? That's some serious Monday morning QB'ing going on there.

topher06 said:

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You aren't stopping an intentional sabotage. If you put these in and someone wants to damage this type of site (and they apparently don't care about dying), they'll find a way. If it was accidental, these could help. I'm not at Energy Transfer or any midstream company, but I am in the upstream industry.

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I work in plant design/operations space. I agree you aren't going to stop intentional sabotage. But for this case? This is, as someone above stated, a back of the envelope calc 'no brainer'. Stop most 'cars' (light duty trucks and lighter) from hitting the station at X mph (Y total energy) and disrupting things. The cost of doing that when building (or retrofitting) vs. product in the line/product down time is greatly in that favor.

Do you need to do it to ever station/valve? No. But ones where there is a higher population? Sure. I realize these places are placed NEAR roads because you need to go to them from time to time, but there's a difference of rando county road and one off Spencer Hwy.

~egon

Dr. Doctor said:

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topher06 said:

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You aren't stopping an intentional sabotage. If you put these in and someone wants to damage this type of site (and they apparently don't care about dying), they'll find a way. If it was accidental, these could help. I'm not at Energy Transfer or any midstream company, but I am in the upstream industry.

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I work in plant design/operations space. I agree you aren't going to stop intentional sabotage. But for this case? This is, as someone above stated, a back of the envelope calc 'no brainer'. Stop most 'cars' (light duty trucks and lighter) from hitting the station at X mph (Y total energy) and disrupting things. The cost of doing that when building (or retrofitting) vs. product in the line/product down time is greatly in that favor.

Do you need to do it to ever station/valve? No. But ones where there is a higher population? Sure. I realize these places are placed NEAR roads because you need to go to them from time to time, but there's a difference of rando county road and one off Spencer Hwy.

~egon

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This doesn't super change the conversation, but we always found a bigger need for valve station fences on our remote sites. Much more common problem than cars hitting valves was cattle using valve handles to scratch themselves and turning valves that shouldn't be turned.

BlackGoldAg2011 said:

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schmellba99 said:

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htxag09 said:

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I'm sure there will also insurance dollars at play.

And, yeah, probably cheaper than a few bollards. But are you suggesting they should have anticipated this incident at this one location? Otherwise, we're talking a few thousand bollards, minimum.

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Even a few thousand bollards is far cheaper than what they will fork out, right or wrong, here. And if they don't and another incident happens - they will be royally fooked because in that event the lawyers will get to talk about willful ignorance on Energy Transfer's part.

Just for grins, take this valve station. Dimensions are approximately 50' x 30'. You typically place bollards every 4' so vehicles can't squeeze through.

That station would have ~50 bollards. Each one is 8' of 6" Sch. 40 pipe. I'm not calculating the actual amount of concrete, so call it a full truck (10 yards) to make it easy, have 6 of them be removable so you can access the gates.

Pipe - $300 per, so $15k
Concrete - $1200
Labor @ 1/3 material cost - $5500
P&OH @ 15% - $3500
Total - $25k

I guarantee you that is a ton cheaper than even the lawyers fees they will fork out just to begin to deal with this. And this station is on the larger side. But even then, assume $25k for each one and you have say 100 of them you assess as high priority. That's only $2.5 MM. Which is still probably less than the lawyer's fees they are going to fork out, much less all of the other ways they are going to get dinged. Their insurance premium will go up by that much because of this incident alone.

*these are back of the napkin numbers and not to be taken as some type of 100% accurate estimate

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My only question is where the hell are you getting construction labor at 1/3 material cost and can you share that contact? Every project I've been involved in recently labor has been more like 1.5x-2x material.

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I was banking on one gringo jefe with the tractor and a handful of Home Depot day laborers.

Those pipe pens are to keep the tractor mowers from plowing into everything more than anything else, because the guys that drive those tractors are not always the sharpest tools in the shed. Usually the pipe used on those is smaller than a standard bollard. It would absolutely work in most situations though.

Also - Stratton Ridge?

htxag09 said:

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Highly doubt a company like Energy Transfer is using Home Depot day laborers.

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No kidding? Really?

nm

Dr. Doctor said:

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topher06 said:

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You aren't stopping an intentional sabotage. If you put these in and someone wants to damage this type of site (and they apparently don't care about dying), they'll find a way. If it was accidental, these could help. I'm not at Energy Transfer or any midstream company, but I am in the upstream industry.

---

I work in plant design/operations space. I agree you aren't going to stop intentional sabotage. But for this case? This is, as someone above stated, a back of the envelope calc 'no brainer'. Stop most 'cars' (light duty trucks and lighter) from hitting the station at X mph (Y total energy) and disrupting things. The cost of doing that when building (or retrofitting) vs. product in the line/product down time is greatly in that favor.

Do you need to do it to ever station/valve? No. But ones where there is a higher population? Sure. I realize these places are placed NEAR roads because you need to go to them from time to time, but there's a difference of rando county road and one off Spencer Hwy.

~egon

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Based on Google Earth, the side of the fence closest to Spencer is about 45 yards and at the closest from the Wal Mart lot/drive to the east is about 96 yards. Both of those are a long damn way for a vehicle to accidentally get there. Especially if they jump a curb.

Think:

metal pipe filled with concrete that you see at gas stations.

94chem said:

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I keep hoping I can figure out what a bollard is from context. Right now I'm leaning toward a large, menacing sea creature.

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The big posts next to the concrete well pad are an example. Just a steel pipe sunk into the ground, concreted in place and filled with concrete.

Texaggie7nine said:

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htxag09 said:

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Highly doubt a company like Energy Transfer is using Home Depot day laborers.

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THEY don't. But their contractor might.

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Nice to see a monitor well not bent over from the mowing tractor or Julio in his pickup. Must be a fresh install.

schmellba99 said:

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Those pipe pens are to keep the tractor mowers from plowing into everything more than anything else, because the guys that drive those tractors are not always the sharpest tools in the shed. Usually the pipe used on those is smaller than a standard bollard. It would absolutely work in most situations though.

Also - Stratton Ridge?

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Not Stratton Ridge. But in the neighborhood.

Comeby! said:

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You sell bollards or what? That's some serious Monday morning QB'ing going on there.

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Nope. I have to buy and install them on pretty much every project I have.

Milwaukees Best Light said:

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Nice to see a monitor well not bent over from the mowing tractor or Julio in his pickup. Must be a fresh install.

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Also nice to see they opted for a stick-up installed in a overgrown field.

Ag_07 said:

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Milwaukees Best Light said:

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Nice to see a monitor well not bent over from the mowing tractor or Julio in his pickup. Must be a fresh install.

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Also nice to see they opted for a stick-up installed in a overgrown field.

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That well is about 25 yards from a saltwater bay along a golf course. They elected to use stickups for some odd reason then planted vegetation around them to hide them from the golf course. The vegetation regularly gets overgrown because the course doesn't want to maintain vegetation that wasn't their idea in the first place. The reason it looks so new is that the photo was documenting the replacement of the previously rusted out stickup box. The boxes only last about 3-4 years that close to salt water.

maroon barchetta said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Those pipe pens are to keep the tractor mowers from plowing into everything more than anything else, because the guys that drive those tractors are not always the sharpest tools in the shed. Usually the pipe used on those is smaller than a standard bollard. It would absolutely work in most situations though.

Also - Stratton Ridge?

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Not Stratton Ridge. But in the neighborhood.

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Ahh, I know where they are now. Not far off. That green house just screamed Stratton Ridge initially, but it also fits perfect where it is as well.

Good ole BC, can't beat it.

That road was our "shortcut" to get from 288 B to 332 to go to the beach. Less chance of catching a slow freight train this way.

My cousin lived on Highland Park, which turns into this road. Had classmates back off that road that still didn't have running water when we graduated high school. It's in a time warp over there.

Yeah, we took that road every now and again but not too often.

I thought some of the houses on CR 400 near the bend were the only ones without running water.

400 is across the Brazos

That's 434

Yeah, in the bend. Sad looking horses on too small a plot. And a classmate riding a ten speed with empty milk jugs over and over to fill with water from the nearest hose she could find or from the little convenience store faucet up at 288 and Wilson, next to the "He's Not Here Lounge".

Haha

Spent too much time early in my career walking a field around with a Shoenstad looking for flush mounted wells.

It was always relief to see stickups.

Ag_07 said:

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Haha

Spent too much time early in my career walking a field around with a Shoenstad looking for flush mounted wells.

It was always relief to see stickups.

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I used it for monuments and property corners. We referred to ours as "the dog" since it sniffed out buried stuff for us.

Milwaukees Best Light said:

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Nice to see a monitor well not bent over from the mowing tractor or Julio in his pickup. Must be a fresh install.

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They need 2 inch sch 40 pvc pipe attached and sticking up another 5 feet high. Or orange bicycle flags/ poles.
We maintain an 80 acre tract that originally had 30 of those monitoring wells. So glad they have all been removed. You are right about Julio. But us gringos are very expensive…

Ag_07 said:

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Haha

Spent too much time early in my career walking a field around with a Shoenstad looking for flush mounted wells.

It was always relief to see stickups.

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More than once we found wells by driving around the field in a pickup with a couple of guys standing in the bed looking around. Found it with the front bumper of the truck more than once too.

Mas89 said:

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Milwaukees Best Light said:

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Nice to see a monitor well not bent over from the mowing tractor or Julio in his pickup. Must be a fresh install.

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They need 2 inch sch 40 pvc pipe attached and sticking up another 5 feet high. Or orange bicycle flags/ poles.
We maintain an 80 acre tract that originally had 30 of those monitoring wells. So glad they have all been removed. You are right about Julio. But us gringos are very expensive…

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That might offend the delicate sensibilities of the golfers. Have to hide the wells behind f-ing pampas grass that the cottonmouths LOVE to hide out in.

Mas89 said:

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Milwaukees Best Light said:

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Nice to see a monitor well not bent over from the mowing tractor or Julio in his pickup. Must be a fresh install.

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They need 2 inch sch 40 pvc pipe attached and sticking up another 5 feet high. Or orange bicycle flags/ poles.
We maintain an 80 acre tract that originally had 30 of those monitoring wells. So glad they have all been removed. You are right about Julio. But us gringos are very expensive…

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Former Reese near Lubbock?

Houston area.

Mas89 said:

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Houston area.

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Oyster Creek village near Freeport