PhotoAg70 said:

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If you change the name of Robert E. Lee, don't you have to change the name of John Tyler, as well, for the same reason, in order to be consistent? And if you must change the name of John Tyler High School, don't you logically have to change the name of the city?

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The name change consideration has absolutely zero to do with consistency or logic.

But I suspect you know that.

Thoughts about this making the rounds on facebook:

https://thetylerloop.com/robert-e-lee-high-school-race-and-segregation-in-tyler-a-130-year-timeline/

I thought that article was extremely informative as well. Something that stuck with me....history tends to repeat itself. For those that think this is all "new", they're simply too young to remember, and for those that think this is as bad as it's been....let me know when a group is arrested for collecting/making Molotov cocktails and planning to firebomb the high school during a football game.


I think they should change the name....but I thought that before the article.

I've never heard of that website previous to this. It's obvious if you look at the About Us on their website that the articles and opinions are going to be slanted hard to the left. This article is also slanted on some of the details and biased towards one side. If your from Tyler, born and raised, and know the history, then you will see the bias in this article and the slant. Yes interesting to read as a novel, but there are inaccuracies and misrepresentations in this article.

Yes the demographics for TISD are as stated. That's why you have such a large Private School population in Tyler. And when you take the affluent kids from TISD and place them in the private setting, then you see the scores and issues that TISD is having. It's another reason why folks are moving out of Tyler ISD into Whitehouse, Bullard, and Lindale ISD. Take a look at the demographic makeup of those 3 districts.

Changing a school name will do nothing to improve a child's education or make them feel better about themselves.

You can rest assured that if the board is pressured to change Lee, they will both change and they will both be Tyler directional HS. This will infuriate the JT folks, because they love JT and Cujo. But if one changes they will both change, mark it down.

pantherag said:

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Yes interesting to read as a novel, but there are inaccuracies and misrepresentations in this article.

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Feel free to correct them. I'd be curious to know where the misrepresentations occurred regarding facts as I thought they did an excellent job of siting their sources. True the tone of the article had a slant to it, but the timeline and incidents about which they spoke all happened.

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Changing a school name will do nothing to improve a child's education or make them feel better about themselves.

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Changing the name won't hurt either. And it's fairly clear that much of what was done across the south with regards to statues and school names was done to spite the progressive mindsets by throwing the civil war back in the face of desegregationists. There are a lot of things I appreciate about REL the man and some other things that I question about him (which is true for the way I view just about every person I know). There are very few things I appreciate about the people that named stuff for/after Confederate aspects for [mostly] no reason other than to thumb their noses at the changes that were occurring mid-20th century across the south.

Maybe. But REL is a lighting rod because of the way southerners have held him up as a saint that tried to protect their cause. It's an extremely small percentage of people that know anything about John Tyler.

You and I will agree to disagree about the name change. It's just another example of the SJW and social cleansing taking place. Get the left to yell and scream loud enough and everyone else will buckle.

As far as the facts, one of the big misrepresentations was how the piece stated how all the events or altercations were started or instigated by the white students. There were a number of issues that were started by the black students who were integrated into Lee. Many of the examples they stated were in fact the white students reacting to or retaliating against the black students for some of the things they started. There was fault on both sides, yet there are no accounts of that in the article.

That article was written with a bias and with a purpose. Good luck Tyler and TISD.

That's interesting. The article, to me, placed blame on both sides (AA students blocking the entrance to the cafeteria, shredding confederate flags, booing in the pep rally, and instigating the firebomb ideas, whites singing Dixie, organized chants). Sounded to me like students on both sides were stirring things up.

Other than who is asking for the name to be changed, remind me again what harm would come from changing it?

Remind me what good it will do or accomplish?

I asked first...but if you don't have an answer, I'll take that as your answer and move on.

Stive said:

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whites singing Dixie, organized chants). Sounded to me like students on both sides were stirring things up.

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Are you serious? Do you not realize Dixie was the school fight song? Of course it was sung every Friday at pep rallies and during the football game. It was not sung just to "stir things up".

REL is gone in Dallas. Sad day. City council cowards. If you look at the film, it appears the Dallas motorcycle cops are "looking away" as the statue passes them. Very cool. When the truck (with heavily tinted windows) pulls into Hensley Field, notice the line of cars behind them as far as you can see. There is hardly anyone on that road usually.

Yes I'm quite aware of it's fight song status. And when it's seemingly being sung on the quad loud and proud as an "in your face" move (not just at the pep rally) then it should be obvious to you that it wasn't just a school pride aspect. And I never claimed it was sung "just to stir things up".....it was mentioned as part of the build up to the fights on the quad after integration.

Or maybe you didn't read that part of the article.

Stive said:

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Yes I'm quite aware of it's fight song status. And when it's seemingly being sung on the quad loud and proud as an "in your face" move (not just at the pep rally) then it should be obvious to you that it wasn't just a school pride aspect. And I never claimed it was sung "just to stir things up".....it was mentioned as part of the build up to the fights on the quad after integration.

Or maybe you didn't read that part of the article.

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No, it's more "it's blocked where I work so I'm answering something I'm unable to read". I couldn't see exactly what you referred to. I'm aware it was sung then and it was school pride, knowing their symbols were already being threatened.

Josepi said:

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Why do you think Dixie was chosen as the school fight song?

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Because the name Robert E. Lee had been chosen already, partly by the students themselves. Dixie would naturally be the fight song.

Stive said:

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REL is gone in Dallas. Sad day. City council cowards.

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Good job America. Your representatives did what they're supposed to do.

Now if the people in Dallas are really butt hurt about the statue coming down, they can elect a new city council that runs on the platform of "I want to re-erect the statue of a losing general". Let's see how that goes.

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Not really. There was no vote. Rawlings put up a forum for public, he ignored it, shortened the time ppl could speak at meeting from 3 to 1 minute, called it an emergency (while Harvey was hitting) so he could avoid a public meeting. Hopefully, you're right. Just like when the Tyler City Council were all voted out after they tore up the city hall and put up that ugly thing there today

The City Hall in Tyler, I mean.

Stive said:

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No vote? Really? No public comments? They voted 13-1 to remove it. Or is this article making it all up?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/us/robert-e-lee-confederate-dallas.amp.html

That's how this works. Some guys that didn't like the way the civil rights movements were going chose to throw this stuff up as the Feds were forcing things upon them, and now, different representation is choosing to go different routes in cities across the south. It's pretty amusing to me actually.

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No PUBLIC vote, they ignored public comments that were majority against it, they severely limited any public discourse at the council meeting. Rawlings made it more of an emergency than Harvey, taking much-needed equipment away from Houston. I can't believe you're using some Yankee rag. I'm sure the New York Times is in touch with the Southern U.S. as much as they were back then

That was the first one that came up on Google. I'm doubting any of the other articles report anything different.


Of course it didn't go to a public vote; it's not a ballot issue. It wasn't a ballot issue when it was created and it isn't one now. And just because it wasn't a public vote doesn't mean there wasn't a "vote" taken.

Rawlings pushing it through was as much to keep Dallas from potentially becoming another Charlottesville as it was him "sneaking" a vote through.

Me personally, I love watching democracy at work. Sore losers are always fun people watching.

After reading, TISD had a genius plan - to integrate starting with kindergarten and 1st grade. It'' s the model used for every special-interest group since, from feminists to gays. In 10 years, the kids woulda been getting along, maybe sooner. But along came William Wayne, just like we've heard. Tyler wouldn't't be dealing with it 40 years now. He was ostracized by everyone! And it may confirm what several ppl have told me, the Black Panthers were there that day. There were "people we had never seen before that morning"

Stive said:

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Me personally, I love watching democracy at work. Sore losers are always fun people watching.

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That was a far cry from a democracy, where the majority rules. Plus he got a guy killed in his "rush to justice". Y'all will be the losers for letting ppl bully you into giving up your history.

Tell me you aren't talking about the truck driver that ran into the crane truck and died?

If you are you're either living on Mars or you're a full blown troll. If it's Mars, I commend you for being so tuned into local politics from a distance. If you're trolling then I commend you for suckering me into your spin.

Mur**** said:

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Stive said:

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Me personally, I love watching democracy at work. Sore losers are always fun people watching.

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That was a far cry from a democracy, where the majority rules. Plus he got a guy killed in his "rush to justice". Y'all will be the losers for letting ppl bully you into giving up your history.

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Oh...you think we're a democracy? That's cute. Annnnddd back to political science class you go.

Stive said:

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Tell me you aren't talking about the truck driver that ran into the crane truck and died?

If you are you're either living on Mars or you're a full blown troll. If it's Mars, I commend you for being so tuned into local politics from a distance. If you're trolling then I commend you for suckering me into your spin.

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Someone died because Rawlings deemed a statue more of an emergency than Harvey. Cranes don't move when you hit them, even a semi. Physics.

That back bend goes down in the Hall of Fame of terrible logic. Doubt you've ever heard the phrase "correlation does not equal causation". Philosophy.



And go ahead and admit....you thought we were a democracy didn't you. Didn't you....

Stive said:

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That back bend goes down in the Hall of Fame of terrible logic. Doubt you've ever heard the phrase "correlation does not equal causation". Philosophy.

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I hope that will make his widow feel better when you tell her.

Stive said:

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Mur**** said:

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Stive said:

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Me personally, I love watching democracy at work. Sore losers are always fun people watching.

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Oh...you think we're a democracy? That's cute. Annnnddd back to political science class you go.

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Your words

Mur**** said:

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Stive said:

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Mur**** said:

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Stive said:

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Me personally, I love watching democracy at work. Sore losers are always fun people watching.

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Oh...you think we're a democracy? That's cute. Annnnddd back to political science class you go.

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Your words

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Touche

I forgot you needed your hand held as this is being discussed so I'll need to be technically correct and use the proper terms as opposed to the common terms. I should have referred to it as a "representative democracy" so as not to confuse you.

I'll try to do better moving forward.

Mur**** said:

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Stive said:

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That back bend goes down in the Hall of Fame of terrible logic. Doubt you've ever heard the phrase "correlation does not equal causation". Philosophy.

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I hope that will make his widow feel better when you tell her.

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Troll troll troll your boat, gently down the stream.....