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Sweep4-2
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In reply to shaynew1 • 3:45p, 5/24/24
Back in my early days (brand new blue belt I think) I trained standup with a brand new BJJ white belt. I offered to teach him any of the throws he had questions on. He was quiet and stern.

I found out (after getting thrown all over the mats by him) that he was on his countries Olympic Judo team in his younger days. He was in his late 40's, but his grips and posture were unbreakable.
Consistency: It's only a virtue if you're not a screw-up.
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Apache
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11:18a, 5/29/24
AG
Quote:
But as far as belts go, it's really hard to measure skill by the color of their belt.
Do you think there should be belt testing to establish a base level of techniques that a person at a certain belt level should know?

IMO, you can't base belt on who beats who rolling or in a match. Teach a collegiate wrestler 5 basic moves & he'll smoke most BJJ guys up to purple/brown belt. (I know from experience lol)
Judo is a sister sport to BJJ so many of those moves directly translate. Same with Sambo and catch wrestling.

Do you think it would be bad if a guy with 8 years Sambo experience went into a gym, smoked all the whites/blues & beat some purples was awarded a purple belt on the spot? Would he need to "pay his dues" at BJJ, even when he clearly paid them elsewhere?

Curious what y'all think.
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O.G.
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In reply to Apache • 11:40a, 5/29/24
Apache said:
Quote:
But as far as belts go, it's really hard to measure skill by the color of their belt.
Do you think there should be belt testing to establish a base level of techniques that a person at a certain belt level should know?

IMO, you can't base belt on who beats who rolling or in a match. Teach a collegiate wrestler 5 basic moves & he'll smoke most BJJ guys up to purple/brown belt. (I know from experience lol)
Judo is a sister sport to BJJ so many of those moves directly translate. Same with Sambo and catch wrestling.

Do you think it would be bad if a guy with 8 years Sambo experience went into a gym, smoked all the whites/blues & beat some purples was awarded a purple belt on the spot? Would he need to "pay his dues" at BJJ, even when he clearly paid them elsewhere?

Curious what y'all think.
Agreed. Its difficult to nail this down.

There are days when I can maintain/hold my own with a purple belt, then the next day I'm having issues with a white belt. There are people all up and down the scale & you are right, a wrestler is a lot to deal with for anyone.

But, I don't think there should be "standardized" testing at this point in time. That may change sometime in the future, because I've heard more than one person say that BJJ is getting "watered down".

Edit: I am joining IBJJF because I'm doing the tournament in Round Rock in July & its required, I'm in the Masters 5 division & should be weighing in the low 190s at that point.
One of my issues is relevant to this because I know & have seen schools keep a guy at a lower belt level for longer than they should be so they can compete at that level. I'm not AS concerned about it because of the age thing & I'm not doing Nogi....but it does happen.
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shaynew1
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11:58a, 5/29/24
AG
I think you need to be well rounded. I don't get my feelings hurt if I get constantly smashed by the wrestler wearing a blue belt. If he doesn't have a guard or isn't crafty he shouldn't want a purple anyway.
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shaynew1
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11:59a, 5/29/24
AG
I'm also in the camp that I will wear my belt forever until complaints from the community force my coach to promote me.
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AggieChemE09
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In reply to Apache • 1:16p, 5/29/24
AG
Apache said:
Quote:
But as far as belts go, it's really hard to measure skill by the color of their belt.
Do you think there should be belt testing to establish a base level of techniques that a person at a certain belt level should know?

IMO, you can't base belt on who beats who rolling or in a match. Teach a collegiate wrestler 5 basic moves & he'll smoke most BJJ guys up to purple/brown belt. (I know from experience lol)
Judo is a sister sport to BJJ so many of those moves directly translate. Same with Sambo and catch wrestling.

Do you think it would be bad if a guy with 8 years Sambo experience went into a gym, smoked all the whites/blues & beat some purples was awarded a purple belt on the spot? Would he need to "pay his dues" at BJJ, even when he clearly paid them elsewhere?

Curious what y'all think.
I know of a guy at a nearby school who got his Blue Belt after 1 week and recently received his Black Belt after just about 3 years of training BJJ(even if IBJJF disagrees).

This guy had won the armed forces wrestling tournament multiple times before starting BJJ, and then won IBJJF Worlds at Blue Belt in his first year.

Some guys are horrible people who will never get a Black Belt because their professor doesn't want their name associated with the guy.

I think there is a little too much worrying about the edge cases. If your professor is respected, I will trust his judgment on whatever belt he has you wearing.

edit: Just did some Facebook Research. Guy got his Blue in August 2020 and Black in May of 2024. Absolute monster.
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O.G.
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In reply to AggieChemE09 • 1:22p, 5/29/24
AggieChemE09 said:
Apache said:
Quote:
But as far as belts go, it's really hard to measure skill by the color of their belt.
Do you think there should be belt testing to establish a base level of techniques that a person at a certain belt level should know?

IMO, you can't base belt on who beats who rolling or in a match. Teach a collegiate wrestler 5 basic moves & he'll smoke most BJJ guys up to purple/brown belt. (I know from experience lol)
Judo is a sister sport to BJJ so many of those moves directly translate. Same with Sambo and catch wrestling.

Do you think it would be bad if a guy with 8 years Sambo experience went into a gym, smoked all the whites/blues & beat some purples was awarded a purple belt on the spot? Would he need to "pay his dues" at BJJ, even when he clearly paid them elsewhere?

Curious what y'all think.
I know of a guy at a nearby school who got his Blue Belt after 1 week and recently received his Black Belt after just about 3 years of training BJJ(even if IBJJF disagrees).

This guy had won the armed forces wrestling tournament multiple times before starting BJJ, and then won IBJJF at Blue Belt in his first year.

Some guys are horrible people who will never get a Black Belt because their professor doesn't want their name associated with the guy.

I think there is a little too much worrying about the edge cases. If your professor is respected, I will trust his judgment on whatever belt he has you wearing.
3 years is crazy. I don't think its enough time to develop as a BJJ practitioner, even if the skills are there. The person has to develop too.
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AggieChemE09
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In reply to O.G. • 1:27p, 5/29/24
AG
O.G. said:
AggieChemE09 said:
Apache said:
Quote:
But as far as belts go, it's really hard to measure skill by the color of their belt.
Do you think there should be belt testing to establish a base level of techniques that a person at a certain belt level should know?

IMO, you can't base belt on who beats who rolling or in a match. Teach a collegiate wrestler 5 basic moves & he'll smoke most BJJ guys up to purple/brown belt. (I know from experience lol)
Judo is a sister sport to BJJ so many of those moves directly translate. Same with Sambo and catch wrestling.

Do you think it would be bad if a guy with 8 years Sambo experience went into a gym, smoked all the whites/blues & beat some purples was awarded a purple belt on the spot? Would he need to "pay his dues" at BJJ, even when he clearly paid them elsewhere?

Curious what y'all think.
I know of a guy at a nearby school who got his Blue Belt after 1 week and recently received his Black Belt after just about 3 years of training BJJ(even if IBJJF disagrees).

This guy had won the armed forces wrestling tournament multiple times before starting BJJ, and then won IBJJF at Blue Belt in his first year.

Some guys are horrible people who will never get a Black Belt because their professor doesn't want their name associated with the guy.

I think there is a little too much worrying about the edge cases. If your professor is respected, I will trust his judgment on whatever belt he has you wearing.
3 years is crazy. I don't think its enough time to develop as a BJJ practitioner, even if the skills are there. The person has to develop too.
Agreed! 3 years is crazy. The guy is crazy motivated and talented. I have rolled with him over the years and it always seemed like he was under-belted. His professor is highly regarded too so I trust him.
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Sweep4-2
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6:03p, 5/29/24
I think BJJ has too many styles to have belt tests or standard moves for promoting. And I think it also makes people 'study to the test' rather than enjoying the learning along the way. Part of the fun of BJJ is developing niche moves (that then turn into mainstream....berimbolo, 50/50, 80/20, etc.)

Also, some of the easiest martial arts to quickly 'belt up' in also use standard criteria and moves for promotion.

Standardized testing would just lead to even more comparison to others (which takes away from the fun IMO).
Consistency: It's only a virtue if you're not a screw-up.
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Moral High Horse
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7:43a, 5/30/24
I'm ok with 3 years for a black belt but my criteria is this:

- have a solid knowledge base of the skills/techniques: this can be learned in 3 years but I feel a more reasonably timeline is 6-8 years. But if youre a black belt and a white/blue comes up to you and ask how to do or counter x guard and he doesn't have an answer then that's a problem. I'm not saying he should have a mastery of all techniques but needs some basic understanding.

-competitions: I think a handful of these should be required. Doesn't necessarily need to be ibjjf but something. Shows these individuals have/had the intensity at some point and have tested themselves. AND hold your own at that level. Don't have to win just don't get slaughtered. Fun fact: I got slaughtered my first two blue belt competitions. Corrected that by the 3rd.

-teach: back to the whole knowledge deal you have to help develop the sport. You don't have to open a school but at least teach a class every now and then

-ethical representation: yeah you may have all the above but for crying out loud please don't be a criminal, take advantage of students, etc. Rep bjj well. This shouldn't be a big ask.

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O.G.
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In reply to Moral High Horse • 9:09a, 5/30/24
Moral High Horse said:
I'm ok with 3 years for a black belt but my criteria is this:

- have a solid knowledge base of the skills/techniques: this can be learned in 3 years but I feel a more reasonably timeline is 6-8 years. But if youre a black belt and a white/blue comes up to you and ask how to do or counter x guard and he doesn't have an answer then that's a problem. I'm not saying he should have a mastery of all techniques but needs some basic understanding.

-competitions: I think a handful of these should be required. Doesn't necessarily need to be ibjjf but something. Shows these individuals have/had the intensity at some point and have tested themselves. AND hold your own at that level. Don't have to win just don't get slaughtered. Fun fact: I got slaughtered my first two blue belt competitions. Corrected that by the 3rd.

-teach: back to the whole knowledge deal you have to help develop the sport. You don't have to open a school but at least teach a class every now and then

-ethical representation: yeah you may have all the above but for crying out loud please don't be a criminal, take advantage of students, etc. Rep bjj well. This shouldn't be a big ask.

That last one is huge. It and teaching are part of why 3 years is a bit fast IMHO.
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Sweep4-2
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In reply to Moral High Horse • 4:16p, 5/30/24
I like your general list of criteria, but I think a path to Black Belt in 3 years is too short, as it's barely past the infamous "Blue Belt Gone Missing" time frame. More time is needed to develop, demonstrate and observe those things.

So same criteria, but over a longer, more measurable time period (IMO).

Oh and there's one criteria I noticed you left off....it's the criteria that will get Giselle to Black belt more quickly than Caio Terra and BJ Penn were able to achieve their's, despite being two of the fastest black belt world champions haha.


Consistency: It's only a virtue if you're not a screw-up.
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Moral High Horse
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9:40p, 5/30/24
***k it! I'll fight Giselle!

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P.U.T.U
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10:54a, 5/31/24
AG
There are always exceptions and one of the biggest things that is needed to get the next belt is time on the mats. Andy Stumpf is a retired seal and I think he was able to get his purple or brown belt but he went 4-5 days a week and sometimes twice a day. Helps that his wife is a third degree black belt as well. That guy just gets it though, SEAL friend said he is probably the best seal of the OIF/OEF time, heard the same thing from both Luttrell brothers on their podcast too.

In comparison we have a guy at our gym that started in 2020 so he had some time off the mats at the gym but him and his friends would do the Gracie Combatives 2.0 4-5 days a week for 60-90 minutes during COVID. At our gym I think he is only a 2 stripe blue belt. We had a purple belt transfer in and he can smoke him every time.
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Sweep4-2
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In reply to P.U.T.U • 2:11p, 5/31/24
With more and more people getting into BJJ from all walks of life, the belt promotions will probably come faster and faster and the difference between belts will become less and less (as there's only 4 belts to award).

The one exception will continue to be the competitors who are contenders for podium finishes (at Adult, not Masters) at the world's most prestigious tournaments......Pan Ams, Mundials and ADCC. Different types of students with very different goals in mind. Those promotions will continue to be merit-ability based.

I've rolled with numerous hobbyists (since I am also one) and I've rolled with several former Mundial and ADCC champions (Romulo Barral and Samuel Braga) and it was a VERY different experience. The hobbyists felt like white belts and got smashed like white belts by the competitor black belts.
Consistency: It's only a virtue if you're not a screw-up.
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O.G.
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8:36a, 6/3/24
Officially entered in the IBJJF Austin tournament in July. Middle weight, Masters 5 division. Blue Belt.

I only have one opponent at the moment but the other weight divisions above and below only have one each, so they may ask us to combine, we'll see.

I'm on the mat 4 days a week right now, at least 2 hours at a time, running on days when I don't roll and I'm lifting as well. I also need to cut about 4-5 lb to make weight.

Still waiting on Team TexAgs to have a tournament tho......
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bam02
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8:10a, 6/5/24
AG
Today we practiced a lot of chokes from the seatbelt position. That was a new experience for this no stripe white belt.

I can still feel those chokes in my throat 30 minutes later
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FancyKetchup14
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In reply to bam02 • 8:19a, 6/5/24
AG
bam02 said:
Today we practiced a lot of chokes from the seatbelt position. That was a new experience for this no stripe white belt.

I can still feel those chokes in my throat 30 minutes later
On my first day ever we learned bow and arrows from seatbelt. I'll never forget the sound or feeling of my whole back cracking like in one of those viral chiropractor videos.
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bam02
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9:47a, 6/5/24
AG
Dang, I might just be fasting today. Swallowing hurts like a mofo.
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P.U.T.U
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In reply to bam02 • 9:51a, 6/5/24
AG
bam02 said:
Today we practiced a lot of chokes from the seatbelt position. That was a new experience for this no stripe white belt.

I can still feel those chokes in my throat 30 minutes later
Our gym often lets different people coach based on their strengths. One day we had the retired green beret that taught combatives teach and our warmup was chokes from the seatbelt position. This is the 545am class so this was a great way to wake up in the morning. What I learned that morning was how many different ways I could be choked

Guy said he has never been choked out and will never let anyone choke him out. So far the streak is alive after 15 years.
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bam02
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9:53a, 6/5/24
AG
It's so funny. I feel so dumb. I never realized a choke could be acutely painful like that. I always thought it was just about asphyxiation. Wow!
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P.U.T.U
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In reply to bam02 • 10:00a, 6/5/24
AG
Have you learned the sound someone makes right before they pass out? Couple of the veterans wanted me to hear it just so I knew if someone didn't tap on when to let go when rolling.
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bam02
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In reply to P.U.T.U • 10:09a, 6/5/24
AG
No I had no idea about this. I just hope my training partner knows it because it'll probably be me passing out.
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O.G.
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In reply to bam02 • 11:03a, 6/5/24
bam02 said:
It's so funny. I feel so dumb. I never realized a choke could be acutely painful like that. I always thought it was just about asphyxiation. Wow!
I should have known better & I should have tapped earlier.....but.....earlier this year I got choked so hard it was hard to swallow solid foods for about 3 days.

God help me I love this.
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shaynew1
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In reply to bam02 • 11:05a, 6/5/24
AG
bam02 said:
It's so funny. I feel so dumb. I never realized a choke could be acutely painful like that. I always thought it was just about asphyxiation. Wow!
I may be guilty of preferring a more short choke style rear naked where I engage my choking arm lat and do a big row.

I'll still do the traditional elbows in elbows down, but for whatever reason I can put the former on way faster.
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Sweep4-2
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In reply to bam02 • 11:09a, 6/5/24
In most cases, if a person is doing a choke right it should be strangulation rather than asphyxiation (and it shouldn't hurt except maybe the rub of the gi on the neck).

If it's hurting the windpipe or the jaw, nose, etc it's a crush (which typically has a different purpose in training than a choke).
Consistency: It's only a virtue if you're not a screw-up.
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shaynew1
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11:25a, 6/5/24
AG
Brown belt friend at my gym will try to face choke me every roll if I let him. Zero couth.

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OaklandAg06
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1:57p, 6/5/24
AG


Seems relevant here.
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AggieChemE09
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In reply to bam02 • 2:34p, 6/5/24
AG
bam02 said:
Today we practiced a lot of chokes from the seatbelt position. That was a new experience for this no stripe white belt.

I can still feel those chokes in my throat 30 minutes later
it do be like that sometimes

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O.G.
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In reply to AggieChemE09 • 2:47p, 6/5/24
AggieChemE09 said:
bam02 said:
Today we practiced a lot of chokes from the seatbelt position. That was a new experience for this no stripe white belt.

I can still feel those chokes in my throat 30 minutes later
it do be like that sometimes
It do.
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Sweep4-2
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In reply to OaklandAg06 • 3:03p, 6/5/24
That choke was fake. Everybody knows Craig Jones can only heel hook.
Consistency: It's only a virtue if you're not a screw-up.
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bam02
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3:35p, 6/5/24
AG
And I still feel them 8 hours later. And this was just drilling so I knew it was coming every time!
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P.U.T.U
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4:03p, 6/5/24
AG
Still not as bad as the first time I got choked out by my own gi when I was on mount. Think I was less than a month in too
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Apache
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5:18p, 6/5/24
AG
Quote:
On my first day ever we learned bow and arrows from seatbelt.
Pulling his lapel
A Sputtering death rattle
Bow and Arrow Choke




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Moral High Horse
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7:15p, 6/5/24
More fun facts:

Used to have bad TMJ before bjj. All the getting choked fixed that.

I got choked so bad one time I thought I had a cavity. Dentist said, "nope, I don't see anything, your jaw must be sore or something."
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