Cool thanks.

Can I get some links to the RCT's on this? I have a lot of patients asking about these products lately and I would like to review the literature in more depth. Thanks.

aggiederelict said:

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Can I get some links to the RCT's on this? I have a lot of patients asking about these products lately and I would like to review the literature in more depth. Thanks.

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As far as I know, there are no RCTs. There's some data from the Soviet Union from when they were trying to give their athletes an edge, but even those aren't RCTs. There are some animal studies, and most of the dosing protocols are either completely made up, or extrapolated from the animal studies - that were very small scale studies.

I think eventually some of these peptides will get large scale RCTs with safety data, but not sure when that'll be. For the moment the pharmaceutical industry is focused on making peptides for weight loss since that's where the money is.

But if there are good studies, I too would also be interested in reading up on them. Or feel free to email me PDFs if they aren't online at bigtruckguy - at - gmail

I feel like a complete dumb dumb asking this question.....but do peptides and TRT/HGH/Steroids do the same thing (or rather have the same intended outcome)?

I recently returned to training Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu after several years off, and I think almost everyone over the age of 35 is on TRT, or Acai & Jesus, or both. And it shows in both their physique and their training/competition results. Never really thought about the PED route until I saw how much it had improved several guys my age.

Mostly I'm just interested in exploring options to increase my training load, shorten recovery time, give me more energy, etc. I'm old (54) and almost at the end of my athletic runway, but I still want to push my body a few more years (ultra distance trail racing and BJJ) before I completely lose all fitness and conditioning ability.

Is there anything y'all recommend (reading material, research, personal experience)?

Not really. This will be an oversimplification, but peptides send your body a signal to do what it is capable of, and trt and HGH is supplementing the body with something it's not producing enough on its own. I don't know much about steroids so can't comment on those.

If you optimized your testosterone, used therapeutic dosages of HGH and strategically used the recovery peptides, (bpc and tb500). You would feel like Superman and at your age would be an absolute game changer for you.

First, make sure his testosterone is optimized. Get his bloodwork done and see if there's any deficiencies and address those. A lot of younger guys are having testosterone issues these days, even if they don't have the classic low t symptoms.

Supplementing HGH would be safe at responsible doses. He would get more benefit from supplementing exogenous GH over GH peptides signaling his pituitary to pulse GH since his body is already doing that and hasn't declined in its ability.

Edit: looks like HGH and peptides are banned from the ncaa so I retract my statement.

MosesHallEnforcer said:

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First, make sure his testosterone is optimized. Get his bloodwork done and see if there's any deficiencies and address those. A lot of younger guys are having testosterone issues these days, even if they don't have the classic low t symptoms.

Supplementing HGH would be safe at responsible doses. He would get more benefit from supplementing exogenous GH over GH peptides signaling his pituitary to pulse GH since his body is already doing that and hasn't declined in its ability.

Edit: looks like HGH and peptides are banned from the ncaa so I retract my statement.

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JUCO coaches don't care and pushing stuff. I am trying to keep him safe but not get left behind.

MosesHallEnforcer said:

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You take a 1 ml syringe, fill it with bacteriostatic water, (Hospira brand), put it into your peptide vial. Then draw another 1 ml, and put it into your peptide vial. Let dissolve, and swirl a little and your peptides are now reconstituted.

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Ok dumb question, but I am going to ask anyway. Why cant you just buy it already with the water in it? Just plug and play and ready to go....

MosesHallEnforcer said:

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Not really. This will be an oversimplification, but peptides send your body a signal to do what it is capable of, and trt and HGH is supplementing the body with something it's not producing enough on its own. I don't know much about steroids so can't comment on those.

If you optimized your testosterone, used therapeutic dosages of HGH and strategically used the recovery peptides, (bpc and tb500). You would feel like Superman and at your age would be an absolute game changer for you.

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Thanks, I appreciate it. I'll start doing more research into it and doing more learning.

Feeling like Superman would be great!! But I probably need to think a bit more about what I'm hoping to achieve and what risks am I willing to take to get there.

For example, I'm getting slower running, but my times are still decent for being in my mid 50's (5:59 one-mile, 45:XX 10K). But training runs are tougher because I'm now back to BJJ 3-4 days per week and also trying to lift 3-4 days per week. One option is supplementing, but another viable option is dropping one of the three activities I'm currently doing to focus on only two.

I'll also admit that being on the end of a number of "....at your age" backhanded compliments hurt the pride a little bit haha.

Because reconstituted peptides start to degrade around 30 days. The powder will last for years and years if stored in a cool environment.

After 30 days in the fridge your reconstituted peptides are still good they just slowly lose some of their potency.

I'm sorry I didn't mean anything bad or offensive. It's just anecdotally, guys in their 50s that get on testosterone and HGH notice a huge difference from their baseline. More so than a guy in his 30s or early 40s.

MosesHallEnforcer said:

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I'm sorry I didn't mean anything bad or offensive. It's just anecdotally, guys in their 50s that get on testosterone and HGH notice a huge difference from their baseline. More so than a guy in his 30s or early 40s.

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Oh hey.....no need to apologize at all. You didn't say anything bad or offensive. I understood what you meant and appreciate both the information and perspective you bring. It was my reply that was unclear.

My comment about 'for your age' was in reference to what several people have told me lately......"Hey, you are in good shape for your age' or "You are running well for your age". The 'for your age' part (particularly coming from women) just has some sting to it. I just want to be in good shape....and not have the 'for your age' part attached to it (yes, it's pride).

But back to the technical discussion, what you said makes complete sense regarding the impact being different over different age groups, and I appreciate it.

Gotcha, if that's the case and you're serious about it then I would hire a performance coach to put together a comprehensive program that monitors performance, blood work, training etc.

My first call would be to Alex ****l. He trains a bunch of athletes and olympians.

I don't know his rates or availability, but he is world class for sure. I also know some other guys as well if you want to go a different route.

https://theprepcoach.com

Edit: lol his last name is K I K E L. Looks like texags filters doesn't like the first part of his last name.

Update on doing low dosage retatrutide. 5 weeks tomorrow. Been going really low dose around 1mg total weekly. I say around because I'm splitting up my dosage of .5mg based off of how I feel, sometimes 3 days between and sometimes as long as 6 days. Additionally, my measurements aren't the best. Next vial I'll use double the BAC so I may draw more with a little better precision on dosage

Only have had an issue with mild nausea a few times and that was only a few hours max.

I have noticed some weight loss but nothing shocking and I'd say comparable to if I was closely planning meals plus getting at least 10k steps daily. Perhaps 1 to 2 pounds weekly which is ideal so that there should be a minimal rebound when stopping reta.

I wasn't expecting the "food noise" reduction or decreased appetite nearly as much with a low dose. I can still eat 6 chicken wings and some fries along with a beer for lunch but for dinner I might only eat a single fajita since my digestion has slowed.

Overall, I'd give it a 9/10. The nausea drops it a couple points but it gets a surprise bonus point up to 9 due to how it has changed my sleep schedule. Very very much a night owl and despise early mornings but somehow I can find myself drifting off to sleep at 9pm or 10pm and struggling to sleep in after 7am now

bam02 said:

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Don't eat chicken wings and fries and beer for lunch.

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Im sure as hell going to do so if I can!

That wasn't a normal meal fwiw just using it as an example

Ha ha gotcha. I figured.

I found this podcast interesting

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/barbell-medicine-podcast/id1199780143?i=1000742782446

I have a shoulder injury that did not require surgery(per the ortho) but he got me into PT. its helped some but I am still in a lot of pain.

I was told by a friend to do BPC-157 and TB-500

does this sound right?

anyone have a place I should go in Houston to get it?

MosesHallEnforcer said:

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Respectfully your ortho has no idea what he's talking about. There's tons of research and data on tb500 and bpc157.

Also your tb500 dose is too low for healing. You need to take 2.0-2.5mg of tb500 in the AM.

I would also add either ipa/tesa to your stack or pharma hgh if you're comfortable with going that route.

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can you please see my post right above this and let me know what you think? thank you

Yes I would take tb500 and bpc 157. The "Wolverine" stack and doses are in this thread. I would order them online and not mess with anyone in Houston. There's several recommended vendors on the thread as well.

A few other good ones that haven't been mentioned is Soma Chems, and profound aminos.

thank you! who do you buy from?

will it tell me dose and how long to do it?

Would the tb500 and BPC-157 stack work well for back pain?

Yes there's a ton of info and resources and links in this thread. Here is the stack suggested below for injuries.

The ipamorelin and tesamorelin help signal your pituitary to pulse growth hormone, which will support the tb500 and bpc157 in the healing. If you have the extra cash to spend they are great and if your diet is on point you'll probably lose some fat too.

8 weeks

Injuries
Morning:

Ipamorelin - 200-300 mcg
TB-500 - 2.0-2.5 mg
BPC-157 - 250 mcg

Evening:

Tesamorelin - 1 mg
BPC-157 - 250 mcg

Yes most likely. My father in law fell down the stairs and jacked his back up pretty bad, and wasn't moving around well for a long time. We got him on bpc and tb500, we put him 6 weeks on 1 week break, then another 6 weeks.

He was good as new and is a huge fan.

Aggietaco said:

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Aggietaco said:

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Finally pulled the trigger on bpc and tb since I've been off pain meds following surgery for several days. I'm not sure I'll be able to provide any meaningful anecdotal reporting for anyone else, but I'll try to keep a journal of my experience and update here periodically.

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Speaking of the miracle for healing, I'm in week 2 of bpc and tb. Obviously no anecdotal evidence yet, but I'm hoping it will hasten my recovery. PT on the Achilles repair starts this week and I'm anxious to start some mobility work on my ankle since I've been pretty timid about even moving it when I'm not wearing my boot. I spoke with my ortho about my plan ahead of my first injections and he's not sold on the treatment since there is not much significant research, but agreed to help me track recovery against similar aged males as a data point.

The injections have been way easier than I imagined, as someone who is deathly afraid of needles. I've been doing my 250 mcg (of each bpc and tb) pins nightly with the .5cc 31g syringes, alternating right and left side of my stomach and the needle is probably the easiest part. I've only had some slight discomfort at the injection site once, and I think that can be attributed to swabbing with an alcohol pad immediately after injecting that caused some irritation.

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Updating this since it's been 3 weeks from my last.

I'm now in week 5 of my regimen. I did increase my injections to 500 mcg of each about 10 days ago to up the tb amount to 3.5 mg/week. I don't have any evidence of (more) rapid recovery from my surgery yet, as expected, but my physical therapy is going well. The biggest hindrance I have to improvement from surgery is still swelling that I am working to combat with my PT, massage, ice, heat, and elevation.

I do plan to continue injections after a week or so break when I finish my current supply in about 14 more days. That would put 1st cycle around 7.5 weeks long. Based on input from here and elsewhere, I plan to separate my bpc and tb injections when I have to replenish my supply to increase my tb dosage and maintain the 500 mcg/day bpc dose. I haven't decided on adding tesa or ipa to the mix yet.